Bivvy bag?

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Dec 29, 2023
7
4
55
Scotland
Hello all, seen this on the military 1st website,(link below) described as a sleeping bag cover as opposed to a bivvy bag. What's the difference? And has anyone ever used one, seems very cheap?
When bivvying I'm currently using a quite heavy hooped bivvy with midge net & a half lavvu with tarp (I'm in a car) but looking to get lighter weight and some hiking in.
Thanks.

 

Nic Le Becheur

Forager
Sep 10, 2015
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Ludlow
To me, a bivvy bag is simply a bag you bivvy in. As long as it keeps you warm inside and the weather outside, that's what it is. Personally, I prefer canvas, and wrap up in one of those old Norwegian army modular button-up poncho tents.
 
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Ozmundo

Full Member
Jan 15, 2023
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Sussex
What FixSwords said.

No difference between cover and bivi. Just semantics.

The US MSS pattern is good but quite bulky packed down. I’m not sure how breathable the fabric on the MFH bag is. I think there are few people on bushcraft forums who’ve had the Miltec version and found a lot of condensation. That retails for more.
 

Moondog55

Forager
Sep 17, 2023
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Geelong Australia
Speaking as an ex-climber I'd say that there was a huge difference between a bivvy bag and a sleeping bag cover.
A sleeping bag cover has this big hole in the end to allow entry and exit and may or may not be taped along the seams. May or may not have a zip to ease entry and exit
A bivvy bag will be weatherproofed with a head covering or cowl to keep the wind and weather off your head region. Also may or may not have a zip
The former is to protect your precious sleeping bag from splash and splatter whilst in a shelter or to stop contact with the snow if in a snowcave or igloo; but the latter is a genuine life saving device if caught out in the open in an exposed position with no shelter.
A good bivvy bag will be larger than a sleeping bag cover but is miserable on the second night of bad conditions and is no substitute for a proper tent or other shelter.
It's difficult to brew-up or melt snow inside a bivvybag and sometimes that brew-up is a life saver.
If you are going to use a bivvy in bad weather experience also tells me that a big pee bottle is a necessity not a luxury and make damned sure you can tell the difference by feel when wearing gloves.
The US Armys MSS is OK when used with a poncho over the head but needs a groundsheet when not on snow, the main drawback is it's excessively heavy for civilian use; if you add up the weight of the poncho, groundsheet and bivvy, it is about the same weight as a modern tent.
So it is; in my opinion anyway; an emergency item and despite it's 900gram weight and its 3 litre bulk my own bivvy bag is always packed in my ski touring day pack.
I no longer climb but if I still did I'd be investigating UL versions
 

Baelfore

Life Member
Jan 22, 2013
585
21
Ireland
Speaking as an ex-climber I'd say that there was a huge difference between a bivvy bag and a sleeping bag cover.
A sleeping bag cover has this big hole in the end to allow entry and exit and may or may not be taped along the seams. May or may not have a zip to ease entry and exit
A bivvy bag will be weatherproofed with a head covering or cowl to keep the wind and weather off your head region. Also may or may not have a zip
The former is to protect your precious sleeping bag from splash and splatter whilst in a shelter or to stop contact with the snow if in a snowcave or igloo; but the latter is a genuine life saving device if caught out in the open in an exposed position with no shelter.
A good bivvy bag will be larger than a sleeping bag cover but is miserable on the second night of bad conditions and is no substitute for a proper tent or other shelter.
It's difficult to brew-up or melt snow inside a bivvybag and sometimes that brew-up is a life saver.
If you are going to use a bivvy in bad weather experience also tells me that a big pee bottle is a necessity not a luxury and make damned sure you can tell the difference by feel when wearing gloves.
The US Armys MSS is OK when used with a poncho over the head but needs a groundsheet when not on snow, the main drawback is it's excessively heavy for civilian use; if you add up the weight of the poncho, groundsheet and bivvy, it is about the same weight as a modern tent.
So it is; in my opinion anyway; an emergency item and despite it's 900gram weight and its 3 litre bulk my own bivvy bag is always packed in my ski touring day pack.
I no longer climb but if I still did I'd be investigating UL versions
Hi all,
I think this largely depends on the intended use in Interpretation.

For example, I have In the past used what was described as a mil spec surplus bivy bag for 3-4 day trips.
This was 2/3 vinyl (Incl. Base), 1/3 waxed cotton with a waxed cotton option for head shelter or pillow space. I would use this with a decent size basha or tarp to cover the head space and living area.

However, if using something like the snugpak bivvy, I would usually only use a small Basha/ poncho to cover living space as my sleep area would already be protected. Would favour this on a moving camp as opposed to stationary.

hope this makes sense.

atb
Stephen
 

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
4,079
1,767
Berlin
Guten Morgen!
A bit late to the party, sorry!

MFH is like Mil-Tec a German trade brand that offers very bad Asian made equipment in army stile.


The best military bivvy bag is the Carinthia Goretex sleeping bag cover with gas permeable technology called fabric.
Only this one currently allows you to breath through the fabric of the fully closed bag. Nevertheless you will get during 8 hours sleep a moisture problem inside, so you have to breath outside anyway. 900 g and very expensive with very well water protected central zipper.

This and the older version with the normal Goretex jacket fabric can be bought used from the German army, some older ones were made by Feuchter in Germany in best possible quality.

The entry to and exit from the British army bivvy bag that can be found even unissued for 10 % of the price of the current Carinthia bag is a bit acrobatic. No problem if you are 16, rather a problem if you are 60. Less good for hot climates because it has no zipper. Otherwise it's rain and idiot proof. 800g.
The right choice if you are young, strong and poor.

The lightweight option is the already above mentioned Sungpak Special Forces bivvy bag, 350 g only! Made in UK, not far east!
It costs the double of a British army bivvy bag unissued or the same as a used German army bivvy bag and is for civil use a very good recommendation.
Of course it doesn't last as long as a Carinthia bag but for the rather low price that's absolutely OK. That's also real military equipment with NATO Stock Number NSN.
I talk here about nothing else for good reasons, also below:

Men can pee out of a German army bivvy bag or Snugpak SF bivvy bag without leaving it. You simply roll onto the side, open the zipper and wee downhill. Very funny from the sofa. Good to know in reality out there. But an additional poncho, for example the very light Defcon 5 water poncho, 350g, that's also issued in the Italian army, that can be used as additional plough point or lean to shelter is good to have without any doubt, especially if it rains already in the evening.

I recommend to put the bivvy bag onto a closed cell foam mat. That's practical and protects the expensive bivvy bag.

For the Summer for example Multimat Adventure 4 XL, a copy of the German army folding mat, or if it's less warm the Multimat NATO mat, what's the issue British army roll mat, that also can be found used and cheap. The Adventure 4XL is issued to British parachutists.

The normal size of the Snugpak SF bivvy bag is smaller than the Carinthia bivvy bag or the issued British army bivvy bag.
All three are very well constructed and work technically very well. All three are worth the money if bought new or can be found used in very good condition.

The plain green British army bags are obviously over aged. My three ones lost their seam tape. The new MTP ones are obviously the better idea.

Decide what you like among these options and it won't be a fault in any case. It depends on your age, planed activities and pocket money.
I have all three options at home and it's also if already payed still a pretty difficult decision what to take. As you see, you can easily choose the cheapest option if you are able to enter your sleeping bag without opening the zipper.

Otherwise get one with a zipper!

Well, the German one is the best, but we talk about nuances here. The Snugpak bivvy has a draw string that's sometimes a bit in the way, but if you put it between bivvy and sleeping bag it's not such a problem. But well, the German one hasn't that draw string because it's a bit better constructed. It's roomier, what's mainly interesting if you want to take your boots into it below the freezing point. You can enter it more easy than the issued also roomy British one and can wee out of it like you can out of the Snugpak SF but not out of the issued British one. And the German ones have surely the best quality and longevity.

If you could get a used one that looks like new and costs only 50 € made by Feuchter in Germany you should take it of course. But if not, well get one of the both others. They are also really good!
The Snugpak SF is outstanding light.
The British one is idiot proof and I like that very much. A real no nonsense construction of the best! Perfect equipment for young men.
And I have to tell you, the older I get the more I hate unnecessarily complicated equipment.

And don't forget: If you burn a spark hole into a 50 or 100 € bag it's probably less shocking than discovering that at your factory new bought Carinthia Goretex sleeping bag cover for currently 515 €.

I mean the issued Brits in good shape you can get for 50 €, sometimes even new old stock, and if you are inside, it's round about the same!
 
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Dec 29, 2023
7
4
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Scotland
Thank you everyone. I may be even more confused now than before but I'm liking the experienced advice and kit recommendations.
Just as an aside I was out last night (in an old school vango f10) in the Scottish Highlands and temperature (according to the car) at 8 in the morning was minus 9! Glad I
 
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Moondog55

Forager
Sep 17, 2023
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Geelong Australia
Well a Scottish -9C is like a Canadian -30 in terms of comfort.
All I can say is that if you use a sleeping bag cover type just add a small tarp to cover your head and you'll be OK for most conditions
 

Pattree

Full Member
Jul 19, 2023
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UK
What FixSwords said.

No difference between cover and bivi. Just semantics.
This ^^^^
The bivi keeps you dry and your sleeping bag keeps you warm. Once it starts including frames and poles it’s a tent!


IMG_5930.jpeg

Snugpak would appear to agree.

I’ve never used this one - I am insufficiently slender. I might “Gift it on” If the right article appears in the thread.

I use an old military type 38 bivi sack and I’m happy sleeping out in that and a Snugpak C5 in all weathers.
I use the 38 upside down with a 3/4 Vango mat tucked inside and the hood above my head rather than under it.
I’m getting stiff and creaky but I’m still perfectly capable of climbing out of a zip free bag rather than using “indoor plumbing”!.
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
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Berlin
Well, the standard Snugpak SF bivvy bag is wide enough for a 95 kg heavy man who is 185 cm tall, in padded army suit in SF2 in SF1 sleeping bag which are together warm enough alone down to -20 degrees and wide enough that you can keep your boots on if you should like that or need that, whyever.
More space is surely no fault but don't tell me that the Snugpak SF bivvy bag is narrow, please. I slept in it surely 1000 nights and was without any problems able to move legs and arms.
I think one could even take additional a military gun into it. What I didn't try out because I don't carry one for recreational camping around.
 

Pattree

Full Member
Jul 19, 2023
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I don’t know about the Snugpak SF but I found the Snugpak Bivvi (see above) so narrow that it crushed the insulation of my Snugpak Chrysalis 5 against me to the extent that if I had slept curled there would have been no air at knees or hips. I have never used it in the field, only once briefly indoors.

My 36 year old British Army Gortex bivi bag is big enough to take it’s matching sleeping bag and allow me to get dressed inside it.

I suspect that Snugpak had a rethink some years ago. The Chinese made Crysalis sleeping was an error but it did have two zips so you could widen or tighten the bag to suit. Just a few years later they introduced zip-in inserts so that you could widen their British made range.
It seems that they never reviewed the little bivvi.
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
4,079
1,767
Berlin
Well, the normal sized SF bivvy isn't so big that you can put your clothing on inside. It's a still robust lightweight construction.

They offer also a very big version though, perhaps it's mainly longer, look it up yourself if you are interested. But I think it has to be combined with the bigger version of the sleeping bags too.

The Snugpak bivvy works very well with the SF sleeping bags, but so far I understood from comments in internet forums a too narrow foot box or too short sleeping bag seems to cause moisture problems in the foot area. No idea if they did breath outside consequently though. It could be also a users fault.
 

Moondog55

Forager
Sep 17, 2023
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Geelong Australia
I've got the Regular sized American MSS
Far too small for me and no way I could get changed inside it. Even in my mountain bivvy bag getting dressed would be next to impossible, for some reason I need far more room to get dressed than to wriggle out of clothing. My lightweight winter SB has an internal girth of 178 cm and that's a bit on the small side [ only 560 grams of down so I need to wear clothing on cold nites] and it only just fits inside my LW Halite overbag but that only gives me a 10C temperature boost and I don't always pack it. Most bivvy bags and sleeping bag covers are simply made too small. The lower weight and small packed volume are better at selling gear perhaps
 

FerlasDave

Full Member
Jun 18, 2008
1,783
549
Off the beaten track
Hello all, seen this on the military 1st website,(link below) described as a sleeping bag cover as opposed to a bivvy bag. What's the difference? And has anyone ever used one, seems very cheap?
When bivvying I'm currently using a quite heavy hooped bivvy with midge net & a half lavvu with tarp (I'm in a car) but looking to get lighter weight and some hiking in.
Thanks.

I believe that is the cheaper version of the MMPS cover, which I agree is semantics wether it’s a bivvy or not. I have a carintha, a genuine mmps and an alpkit hunka. If I were you for lightweight camping and backpacking I’d try a hunka XL as even I find the hunka very tight and I’m a slim guy. You couldn’t fit a sleeping mat inside the bivvy with you that’s for sure. I like the British army bivvy but the only downside is the hood is terribly designed and you can’t hook a pillow in it in any way. Fine when you have webbing as a pillow but for a decent nights kip it’s not for me.
 

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