True Instinctive shooting?

[marcelxl]

Do any of you practice truly instinctive shooting?

How did you get there and how do you practice?

I am thinking more of archery but would be interested in hearing about users of slingshots or even guns.

As my passion for field archery grows as does my obsession for instinctive shooting (dabbling with a catty now too) and I feel I am getting somewhere with it now but only through hard work and lots of arrows & often!

Very interested in others progression and any tips/pointers

Cheers!

Marc

 

[Ronnie]

i'm assuming you've seen this already?

[video=youtube;9ieWrWLjii0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0[/video]

 

[8thsinner]

It's funny this topic is coming up in more than one forum right now...

I do, I practice instinctive shooting, well I have started again practising instinctive shooting, I hadn't shot in nearly six years and started again three days ago taking about 60 arrows a day. I went not surprisingly from barely hitting the A4 sheet I taped to a wad of sofa foam and shooting from one end of the house out the back door up to the back alley door...It's impossible for me to shoot over the door from the angles in the house...
Only today (3rd day) was I getting consistent aluminium clinking on aluminium noises again...


I was taught to use sights with modern recurve bows, having gone through a course on it, as soon as the course was over, I moved the sights to the box and started just to shoot. At that time my form was much better.
Today I noticed my shoulders are high on the release arm...I will be working on form for the next few months. But I am hoping to get some proper arrows soon, these things are so bent I am surprised I am getting any consistency in them.

I posted else where recently what my old routine for training was to help me develop my shooting, and after doing it for a year there was a hell of a difference.
Here it is...

I have done the blind shooting, and was even considering it this morning in my home range, but I have not long been shooting again so I am going to wait on that.
Anyway, here are a few things that helped me when I was learning.

When shooting in london, I had keys to my outdoor range, so I would cycle up in the morning, and shoot from an hour or so before sun rise training in all sorts of crazy ways, I was always the only one there so going to the centre of a field was pretty safe...
1, Start with ten yards, but my target was at 50 yards, I just walked up...
2, Walk back further and further each time, throwing a rugby ball and going to where it lands, left right what ever...
3, Start walking side to side more I did this mainly around 30 yard distances. and not further out than 30 degrees.
4, At twenty yards, I start speed shooting, from a back quiver, I once got off 6 shots in about 8 seconds.
5, Shooting whilst walking, side to side forward and back. I never did this further than 30 yards.
6, Kneeling shots, a kneeling posture (think tripod)in woodland settings is a lot more stable than two legs over branches and stones.
7, I did not shoot moving targets, but only because I had no safe way of utilising a person in order to help me arrange it. But you can rig up a kids slide, with wooden pin holding up a watermelon or something and pull it with string tied to your foot...one roll per six arrows, otherwise it's just too much walking around.

Oh, if you are moving around all over the ground in front of you, do not move on again until you hit a centre gold at least a few times.

In addition, shoot once a day every day, even if it's just six arrows, concentrate on perfect breathing first, then perfect form each time. It reminds your body that these are important muscles that should be ready any time day or night with no warm up. You will end up being looser and better quite quickly.

One more thing,
Term paper...Not for school, but for me, My personal coach instructed that her students write down every detail of how we shoot, then write down every detail on how we should shoot. I am not sure if it helped physically but it makes you look at every detail of your form and helps you realise you need to work on. And preparing the mind is probably the most important thing in shooting.







That was all basically, but I just had a thought.
All the debates about instinctive shooting being BS recently makes me wanna challenge competition aimers to a duel with instinctive shooters...
If only that was legal eh...


I do also shoot with a caty, but I put a hell of a lot more emphasis on being able to aim with it for some reason, lining strings up and judging heights etc...




Editted to add, the video link got in as I was typing, I love that video...PROOF that instinctive shooting exists, yay.

 

[DavidJT]

Yes no sights on my afb!
Great feeling when you get it right.

 

[AussieVic]

I haven't done much shooting in recent years, but I used to throw a rope over a tree branch with a sandbag attached. I could swing this like a pendulum to simulate a moving target.

More recently I considered adapting a cheap radio controlled car and attaching a tall(ish) wire “post” with a target on the top. Much less predictable movement !

 

[Grooveski]

Another variation on the changing-distance theme is to pop a 4-5' stick in the ground in the middle of a field, fix a wee plastic bottle or drinks can(something your arrows will just go right through) on the top and take a shot at it. Then go to where the arrow lands and take the next from there.
There's a fair bit of walking involved but you get a good mix of distances from 10m or so out to 50 and I find the walk makes me take each shot more seriously.

If you have a pal who's into golf invite them along to your practice session. 7 iron is about perfect and with them standing beside you on the shooting line try to hit the balls as they fly downrange. Distance varies from 30m(about as fast as I can draw and loose) to around 100(waiting for the ball to start coming down again).
For more difficulty increase the distance between the golfer and archer and for a real giggle try it on a windy day.

As for whether I 'truly' shoot instinctively? I'd say sometimes.
I change bow a lot(too often maybe) so the first few shots definately(as I have no reference) but given time with the same bow I start using references and point of aim.
I nearly always try to find the point-on distance of a new bow my first time out with it. I just like to find and know it even if I'm not planning to shoot point of aim with that bow.

I like sights too. Haven't used a competition sight for a while but have pin sights on a couple of bows. I don't shoot those instinctively(unless there's golf balls flying ) but enjoy the differing challenges - Range judging, factoring in elevation changes and choosing gaps between the pins.

Know what you mean Vic, every time I'm in Maplin I start eyeing up those cheap RC planes.

 

[Nonsuch]

NFAS Field Archery in my category is all 'instinctive' in principle - unknown distances, no sights etc. Having said that I think I use what people call split vision. One part of my brain is focusing very hard on the target but the other is subliminally calculating how far below the target the ghostly image of the arrow point actually is. But there's no mathematical calculation going on - it's all a matter of subconscious adjustment.

 

[DavidJT]

Robin Hood himself would have struggled with hitting a flying golf ball at 50m!
Like the rc car idea though!

 

[_scorpio_]

the plate shooting i do with an air pistol is instinctive, though its easier with a nice small lightweight gun, i can do it fairly successfully with my 8" barrel length revolver.
i started by shooting things with a BB gun, and its still the only thing i am actually regularly successful with when instinct shooting because its plastic and weighs nothing. i tend to hit things more successfully with handguns when i pull the trigger as soon as i have instinctively pointed it at the target than if i stop and try to aim.

 

[Nonsuch]

Robin Hood himself would have struggled with hitting a flying golf ball at 50m!
Like the rc car idea though!

Mind you that shot at a fleeing horseman at the end of the film is pretty good - someone else's bow and arrows as well ;-)

 

[Grooveski]

Notice I didn't say I'd ever hit a golf ball.

Have had lots of fun trying though and you can safely say that anybody who does will be shooting instinctively, there's no time for anything else.

 

[marcelxl]

NFAS Field Archery in my category is all 'instinctive' in principle - unknown distances, no sights etc. Having said that I think I use what people call split vision. One part of my brain is focusing very hard on the target but the other is subliminally calculating how far below the target the ghostly image of the arrow point actually is. But there's no mathematical calculation going on - it's all a matter of subconscious adjustment.

Spot on!

I am getting there but could never explain how, but the feeling is immense!

Without getting all romantic and getting into the whole history thing it does (or at least I believe) give you a snapshot into what it must have been like with the one-ness with your weapon, something that would have been your life.
I have seen the slingshot dude before, it is also worth checking out Byron Ferguson and some of the American exhibition shooters............mind blowing!
I was doing well on the targets with the compound, easily attaining my Bowman and edging closer to Master Bowman scores but it now it seems I might be heading in another direction!

 

[Home Guard]

Im not sure what you mean by "Instinctive shooting" if its aiming and shooting very quickly.

Clay shooting, practical shotgun and pigeon decoying seem very instinctive. The time between when the target is first seen and then shot at is minimal.

 

[British Red]

I would say a great deal of PSG is instinctive (as a PSG shooter),,,longer shots are aimed, but falling steels and poppers out to about 75 feet are certainly instinctive. Shots from the hip certainly are

 

[bbdave]

I have only ever shot instinctivley there is no hard and fast rule as it is instinctive what distance it is matters not i have shot targets from 10 to 100+ yards but knowing the distance helps me in no way what so ever.

I used a 65lb Border recurve and an 80lb english long bow the poundage being high to keep arrow tradjectory as flat as possible

As to technique what ever suits the individual and loads of practice just wander a field shooting random tufts of grass rotten logs etc. As Fred Asbel( http://www.gfredasbell.com/) says it's like throwing a ball into a basket you can just do it with practice.
I have never shot with a sight and though i say it myself used to be quite a successfull archer but i knew the moment i loosed if i had made the shot or not it feels right same as throwing the ball. I was taught very early when i started that thinking about it would ruin the shot.

Hope this helps

Dave

 

[Grooveski]

Im not sure what you mean by "Instinctive shooting" if its aiming and shooting very quickly.

It has more to do with not consciously aiming or judging distances - concentrating on the target and entrusting the shot to muscle memory and enough practice to know the drop-off at all ranges.
Speed shooting or moving targets are good examples because you don't have time to aim so it has to be instinctive but the same principle can be applied to any shot, even if you're taking your time.

It's a hard one to quantify. On occassion after a shot I'll realise that I didn't really aim, sometimes that feeling runs for a good few shots and at those times I'll maybe think I'm getting somewhere. Though whether I have been 'not aiming' or had just got so used to the sighting picture that I wasn't thinking about it anymore..........

Other times I know I'm using references, consciously seeing the sight picture(hand, arrow point, fades......), figuring the distance and what the drop-off will be and changing the target's position in the picture to suit. It's more like using sights(even though there aren't any sights).

 

[GordonM]

I would say a great deal of PSG is instinctive (as a PSG shooter),,,longer shots are aimed, but falling steels and poppers out to about 75 feet are certainly instinctive. Shots from the hip certainly are

I agree Red! Here is a drill I was taught for practical shotgun...

1. Get a simple BB gun (the Daisy Red Ryder type). Oh, I'm not responsible if you "shoot your eye out"!

2. Get about ten or so ping pong balls.

3. Pitch the balls on the grass out in front of you. Cock and shoot the BB gun at the balls without using the sights. Speed up as you go. As you go, you will start hitting regularly and after about five minutes you will be hitting without missing.

Again, a great warm up for instinctive practical shotgun.

Gordy

 

[GordonM]

It has more to do with not consciously aiming or judging distances - concentrating on the target and entrusting the shot to muscle memory and enough practice to know the drop-off at all ranges.
Speed shooting or moving targets are good examples because you don't have time to aim so it has to be instinctive but the same principle can be applied to any shot, even if you're taking your time.

That is the same as I do for close in, multiple target transitions in action pistol shooting. Though the same, it is referred to as "point" shooting in action pistol.

Great stuff Grooveski!

Gordy

 

[mrcharly]

I used to bowhunt in Australia when I was a kid. Mostly hunting cockatoos and crows, always instinctive shooting. Sometimes, hunting in the forest it isn't possible to take a proper stance and have the bow at the correct angle etc, so it's a case of concentrate on the target, draw and loose.

 

[FGYT]

this guy developed the Instinctive shooting program for teh US army using BB guns they would be able to hit a thrown BB or asprin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_McDaniel