doomsdayers/preppers

[gliderrider]

I'm in the same group as you, Buy as much as you can when you can, I've got a couple of weeks worth of gas and a pairof those flat camping stoves and a heater just for when things get a bit frugal, for whatever reason.(We are on a card meter for our elec, so if we cant get out we dont have any.) At the moment I'm thinking mostly of Heavy snow as happened last year, with tinned & Dried food in the pantry, snow shovel & Salt by the back door etc.

I dont have any ilusions about who I'd give stuff to if the worst came to the worst, Me & mine, and our neighbour, no one else. There simply wont be the rescourses to help anyone else.

At the moment I'm planning for Adverse weather, along with Loss of Electric, so I've just tried to stockpile as much as I can to match those situation. There is no point planning for surviving a Nuclearholocaust or Zomby plauge, in the uk we would be very lucky indead to live past the initial blast etc.

 

[Pict]

I live just outside of a city of 5.5 million and the vast majority of them buy today's food today and have very little on hand. Fortunately there are no natural disasters that affect us seriously here but as the Brazilians themselves say they are their own major natural disaster. If for some reason the distribution system here was disrupted there would be chaos. That has happened in other cities if the police ever go on strike. The military gets called in and many stores simply close altogether.

Almost all of the food for our city passes through one central distribution point, CEASA, on the outskirts of the city. If you control that one point you will starve this entire population. Our basic Prepper strategy is to keep enough on hand that I won't ever have to venture out in the chaos to keep my family fed in the short haul. Since the city water system that feeds our neighborhood goes offline several times a year we already have a back-up system for water. Our kitchen runs on LP gas and we have two large cylinders on hand, one in use and the other as a reserve.

One of the good things about living out here in the developing world is that the system is already partially broken and it almost forces you to develop a higher degree of self-sufficiency. At least it has that impact on me. I am also in that economic bracket that we have to watch prices and keep a close eye on the budget. There have been times where we have had to eat the seed corn so to speak so it isn't always easy to maintain that reserve consistently.

 

[mousey]

Not saying it would lead to an immediate breakdown in society but the following is worth reading:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...anarchy--Britain-facing-real-food-crisis.html

Last winter we had a bit of snow [north east scotland] some lorries didn't make deliveries to a local shop, milk and bread suddenly vanished for 3 days. Some people I know went into 'panic' mode, It was totally amazing to me so see people getting so upset becuase they couldn't get some milk.

I thought just drink water/ eat yer porridge with water.

This didn't last long [and the local bakery, the only one which is still open - there used to be 5 in my local area - did a cracking trade] however there was still loads of lasting goods/ tinned stuff so not REALLY threatening. If things really did go down I wonder how many people could 'mentally' cope with a failure of the system.

I do tend to keep a very large cupboard full of lasting foodstuffs, mainly cause It's cheaper when we go to a bigger town with a massive supermarket, so tend to stock up then and buy perishable from local producers/ distributors.

 

[TeeDee]

Last winter we had a bit of snow [north east scotland] some lorries didn't make deliveries to a local shop, milk and bread suddenly vanished for 3 days. Some people I know went into 'panic' mode, It was totally amazing to me so see people getting so upset becuase they couldn't get some milk.

If i had to bet , I'd guess there was plenty of dried milk powder left on other shelves.

This didn't last long [and the local bakery, the only one which is still open - there used to be 5 in my local area - did a cracking trade] however there was still loads of lasting goods/ tinned stuff so not REALLY threatening. If things really did go down I wonder how many people could 'mentally' cope with a failure of the system.

I really do wonder. Panic and Fear are the fuel on which Mob mentality seems to grow.

I do tend to keep a very large cupboard full of lasting foodstuffs, mainly cause It's cheaper when we go to a bigger town with a massive supermarket, so tend to stock up then and buy perishable from local producers/ distributors.

Good thinking. I think we have a JITOS thinking now , we've been weaned onto the idea that a super market will have everything we want regardless of time of day or even season.

 

[Pict]

OK, I'll confess, there was a time back in the early 90's that I was headed down the stereotypical "ammo and camo" American Survivalist road. I noticed two things about it all.

#1 A continual gloom and doom mindset is no way to live and will become a serious demotivator for life.
#2. The American survivalist community has a very high degree of nutters and anti-social people who have been affected by observation #1. These people are actually very poor candidates for long term survival because they don't play well with other children.
#3. For every hard core survivalist who has a well stocked bunker there are ten more who only have a well stocked gun cabinet. The lone survivor holding out against all odds is a fantasy.

Wisdom dictates that preparing for that which is foreseeable and increasing your personal skill level to be less dependent on outside help or resources is a good thing. I actually like to be that kind of person. I see dangers in the direction of both extremes and both the person who acts as if nothing could ever happen and the one who lives as if the world will end every afternoon are disconnected from reality as it stands today.

 

[santaman2000]

OK, I'll confess, there was a time back in the early 90's that I was headed down the stereotypical "ammo and camo" American Survivalist road. I noticed two things about it all.

#1 A continual gloom and doom mindset is no way to live and will become a serious demotivator for life.
#2. The American survivalist community has a very high degree of nutters and anti-social people who have been affected by observation #1. These people are actually very poor candidates for long term survival because they don't play well with other children.
#3. For every hard core survivalist who has a well stocked bunker there are ten more who only have a well stocked gun cabinet. The lone survivor holding out against all odds is a fantasy...

+1 Pict. And on point # 3 I might add: even IF it were possible for the "lone" survivor to hold out; wouldn't such a life really be far too lonely for most of us to bear anyway?

I've been through several hurricanes where electricity and normal supply chains were out for several days (a couple of which were for over a week) Fortunately I was always in an area with good neighbors. Several restaurants began cooking their perishables and serving the fire & rescue personnel, police, and responders from out of state for free (as well as displaced persons) Co-operation is key in any situation. Granted I'm not talking about a TEOTWAWKI event But even then, I don't believe any loner would do well long term.

 

[santaman2000]

...At the moment I'm planning for Adverse weather, along with Loss of Electric, so I've just tried to stockpile as much as I can to match those situation. There is no point planning for surviving a Nuclearholocaust or Zomby plauge, in the uk we would be very lucky indead to live past the initial blast etc.

Adverse weather (hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.) are my most likely scenario as well. But I believe the current motivation among the doomsayers has shifted from nuclear conflict to economic collapse.

 

[gliderrider]

Even in the most dire economic breakdown I dont think it would be possible to get to a state where Germany was in the mid 20's, with inflation that high that staple foods became worth thousands of pounds/dollars/marks each for a loaf of bread.

 

[Qwerty]

Even in the most dire economic breakdown I dont think it would be possible to get to a state where Germany was in the mid 20's, with inflation that high that staple foods became worth thousands of pounds/dollars/marks each for a loaf of bread.

I'm reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by W Shirer at the moment and it's uncanny the similarities between then and now, both politically and economically. Cheap foreign credit flooding the market, political apathy. Thankfully the main missing ingredient is acceptance and appetite for conflict within Europe, otherwise we could be in a very different place.

 

[Fizzy]

Last winter we had a bit of snow [north east scotland] some lorries didn't make deliveries to a local shop, milk and bread suddenly vanished for 3 days. Some people I know went into 'panic' mode, It was totally amazing to me so see people getting so upset becuase they couldn't get some milk.

I saw that in Crawley, which is hardly remote! Went to Tescos to find people filling trolleys with bread and mainly milk. The delivery had only just arrived and was cleared out in a matter of minutes. I saw the chaos and simply couldn't believe it so I left. Went past the petrol station next door and there was huge queues there too. It was like a scene from a film...

 

[Trunks]

Thankfully the main missing ingredient is acceptance and appetite for conflict within Europe, otherwise we could be in a very different place.

For now! History does have a strange way of repeating itself...

 

[Mick w.]

Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo - all in Europe.
Having said that, much as I don't like the ethos behind a unified Europe, I do wonder if the strong ties that exist now, economically at least, haven't played their part in preventing conflict.
And another thing that struck me about this prepper/survivalist mentality is this. That normally, it's a given that problem solving is better done as a team; but that once the brown stuff hits the fan, when there really will be some major problems to solve, everyone seems to accept that it's every man for himself...

 

[blackfeather]

not all preppers have the everyman for himself mentality united you stand and devided you will fall perhaps not at once but you will fall the prepper community dont have the monopoly on im all right jack!!!
but there is nowhere on earth immune from disasters natural and man made so to prep is a good thing... i wont go into the whole scope of who is prepping but a little time researching and asking questions and you may get a shock or two am not talking just about 2012 prophecies but there may be more to that than meets the eye. especcially if the eye it meets is closed!!!

Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo - all in Europe.
Having said that, much as I don't like the ethos behind a unified Europe, I do wonder if the strong ties that exist now, economically at least, haven't played their part in preventing conflict.
And another thing that struck me about this prepper/survivalist mentality is this. That normally, it's a given that problem solving is better done as a team; but that once the brown stuff hits the fan, when there really will be some major problems to solve, everyone seems to accept that it's every man for himself...

 

[Ex-member PaganBushcraft]

Here are some interesting numbers 1 man in a survival situation has a 4% chance of surviving for a year on his own 4 people have a 14% chance. 8 people have a 28% chance. 16 people have a 56% chance. 28 people or more have a 80% chance. So it is true there is strength in numbers. It has to do with the conservation of energy. The more people there are the more rest everyone gets the more food is found and processed. plus people can stand guard will others rest relax. One man on his own has to stand guard 24/7 so he can never relax. and so no. You see my point. The most impotent thing in prepping ( Survival ) is not how much stuff you have squirreled away. but your ability to adapt to sudden change on a personal and emotional level. Women find it harder than men as they get emotionaly attached to places, people, and things more than men do.But once in the right frame of mind women are stronger than men. Ying/Yang

 

[TeeDee]

Here are some interesting numbers 1 man in a survival situation has a 4% chance of surviving for a year on his own 4 people have a 14% chance. 8 people have a 28% chance. 16 people have a 56% chance. 28 people or more have a 80% chance. So it is true there is strength in numbers. It has to do with the conservation of energy. The more people there are the more rest everyone gets the more food is found and processed. plus people can stand guard will others rest relax. One man on his own has to stand guard 24/7 so he can never relax. and so no. You see my point. The most impotent thing in prepping ( Survival ) is not how much stuff you have squirreled away. but your ability to adapt to sudden change on a personal and emotional level. Women find it harder than men as they get emotionaly attached to places, people, and things more than men do.But once in the right frame of mind women are stronger than men. Ying/Yang

Do uo have a link for those stats. I don't doubt them , I'd just like to see the source material.
Thanks

 

[horsevad]

Here are some interesting numbers 1 man in a survival situation has a 4% chance of surviving for a year on his own 4 people have a 14% chance. 8 people have a 28% chance. 16 people have a 56% chance. 28 people or more have a 80% chance. So it is true there is strength in numbers. It has to do with the conservation of energy. The more people there are the more rest everyone gets the more food is found and processed. plus people can stand guard will others rest relax. One man on his own has to stand guard 24/7 so he can never relax. and so no. You see my point. The most impotent thing in prepping ( Survival ) is not how much stuff you have squirreled away. but your ability to adapt to sudden change on a personal and emotional level. Women find it harder than men as they get emotionaly attached to places, people, and things more than men do.But once in the right frame of mind women are stronger than men. Ying/Yang

While I wouldnt dispute the fact that most data suggest that the people of the hunter-gatherer-age were working together in small family-groups/tribes, I would consider the numbers you posted to be taken from a specific context.

Your data suggest a kind of liniarized connection between the number of people and the survivability; which would be very difficult to achieve in a hunter-gatherer environment.

The temperature, soil type, yearly precipitation and the distribution of this precipitation has tremendous impact on how large a population a piece of land can accomodate.

This table shows a simple overview for different types of terrain.

So, considering a realistic area coverage (radius 10 km), these 28 persons would be SURE to die, if they should choose to stay together in an arctic environment, whereas the could invite quite a number of friends if they were to stay in a tropical environment.

This is probably one of the main reasons that so many of the hunter-gatheres infact were nomads.

//Kim Horsevad

 

[Corso]

Here are some interesting numbers 1 man in a survival situation has a 4% chance of surviving for a year on his own 4 people have a 14% chance. 8 people have a 28% chance. 16 people have a 56% chance. 28 people or more have a 80% chance. So it is true there is strength in numbers. It has to do with the conservation of energy. The more people there are the more rest everyone gets the more food is found and processed. plus people can stand guard will others rest relax. One man on his own has to stand guard 24/7 so he can never relax. and so no. You see my point. The most impotent thing in prepping ( Survival ) is not how much stuff you have squirreled away. but your ability to adapt to sudden change on a personal and emotional level. Women find it harder than men as they get emotionaly attached to places, people, and things more than men do.But once in the right frame of mind women are stronger than men. Ying/Yang

Thats an extremely vague set of statistics

 

[nuggets]

Thats an extremely vague set of statistics

arnt all stastitics -extremely vague- !!!

 

[palmnut]

Surely we wouldn't revert to hunter/gatherer? I would rather expect to see a reversion back to a form of medieval feudal farming, with the local hard-men establishing their dominance by threat of force. I can't see a situation in which mankind would ever revert back beyond an iron-age farming style of life.

I have occasionally pondered on the question of "If society ended today and we had to revert to basic iron age living, how many competing people would we each need to kill off in order to be able to survive in any given area?". I shouldn't have these sleepless nights - it makes me ask wierd questions ;-)

Peter

 

[BoonDoc]

What some people call prepping we used to just call it smart thinking.

When I used to live in Alaska, half of our boot would be full of woolen blankets, food, fire making kits, and camping gear. It was always in there if you needed it.

People were always getting snowed in or getting stuck on the roads. There were not a lot of headlines of people freezing to death. If someone got stuck then it just turned into a camping trip with an excellent excuse for missing work.