London riots

[Siberianfury]

has anyone seen the film "harry brown"? it looks strangely familiar to the events of the last few days.
i only found out this evening as ive been in the woods, but its pretty crazy stuff.

i highly doubt its an uprising, just a load of chavs who have nothing to lose finding entertainment and releasing their anger by behaving in the way that they are.

 

[Jock]

It ain't the Scots trashing your cities, its your feral youths

As far as independance is concerened I happen to be a firm believer in the Union ( & the rule of law)

 

[HarrogateTobias]

anyone want a scratched 32inch plasma... my mate kev's got a couple.. £70 each

 

[nuggets]

has he got any size 8 nike ,s ---a might be interested !!!

 

[spiritwalker]

on a plus note tv programs should be better next year with the increase sales of tv licenses

 

[Neumo]

This does seem to be different from the usual well intentioned justified demos/marches getting hijacked by a hundred or two anarchists wanting to fight the police. It appears to be a coordinated number of organised lootings, which if true does not bode well for the future. Maybe this is the dark side of 'socail networking' rearing it's ugly head, in which case they need to meet the full force of the law to learn that this is not on. The Met in partictular has seemed to have it's response to these kind of 'events' in London all wrong; either they let it happen or they go in too hard and get it wrong, as happened when that poor bloke got hiot by a riot squad officer and died. Riots are dangerous places. If you find yourself in one then leave fast; if you dont then it's a lottery, even if you are just trying to get home.

I am not however listening to any of that lib**el bo***cks on this one. If someone decides to spend their evening looting, doing some arson, fighting the police, beating up passers by etc.. then their are simply no excuses for them. Like too many in this country I am fed up of clever people trying to make excuses for criminal thugish behaviour. There are lines we all know but dont cross. So when people say 'Oh they have no oportunities', then I say it's London mate, if you cant get a decent paying gig in the smoke then move. Simple as. Get on tube & find some paying work. At the end of the day this is gangs running wild & they must be put down & hard. Otherwise one day a group[ will come down your road, rob you & burn you out. Anarchy or civilisation is the choice. My 2 Euros.

 

[Harvestman]

I see sales of balaclavas are up...

Frankly, we could do with an awful lot of rain pretty soon.

In the meantime, I'm strongly reminded of why I like to spend my time getting away from people...

 

[bojit]

It will all be over by the 17th of August ! big brother starts on the 18th and everyone wants a new big screen tv before it starts !

Craig...........

 

[Shambling Shaman]

As far as independance is concerened I happen to be a firm believer in the Union ( & the rule of law)

+1 to that.

 

[SCOMAN]

The call for sending in the troops I find interesting one.the last time that happened on any scale was Belfast and Derry in '69. It did not turn out well some of you may be aware. Getting the military in causes a number of issues legally, and whilst we don't have a constitution, constitutionally. The arrangement is there under Military Aid to Civil Powers(MACP). This happens daily with such stuff as trawler finding WWII mine, navy blows it up, burning your rotting animals carcas, doing the job of the Fire and rescue services despite getting paid less and being eligible to be killed or maimed abroad or in extreme calling in the chaps from Hereford to put down a prison riot(Peterhead, can't remember the year). My point is that "call in the army" is pretty useless they will have to operate under stricter guidelines(shall we say rules of engagement) than the police. Someone needs to grow a pair, give the police their head and allow them to control them in the best way to resume a normal state of affairs. They have the training and legal right to do so. SV witham(check their website) have as many armoured vehicles as the police will need. Trust me a Pig (vehicle) coming on at full tilt will get the most diehard rioters scurrying. Back it up with horses (again v scary) dogs and some ****** of 4 days on Copper it'll be solved. But first a pair of balls has to be found, accept that the press/history will hate you for doing it instead of calling you weak for not doing it and put them down and strongly. Next get the judges to not listen to how poor johnny had to wear primark clothes instead of north face like all his drug dealing friends and felt put down because of it. Round them up and put them on an island or a spare retired naval aircraft carrier isolate them and go back in 10 years. I like Southeys tag regarding rights and responsibilities it's so true. I know people face challenges growing up in society but what we are seeing is inexcusable. I'm usually quite left wing but in the words of Kenny Everett "round them up put them in a field and bomb the ********"

 

[santaman2000]

You could always take your own or go back to the 'station house' could you not?

Dave

Generally frowned upon by most departments. You only go to the station (assuming there is actually a station in your patrol zone) for business reasons. I've spent weeks without ever going to the station. Eating with the public in a public restaurant maintains a police presence.

 

[Retired Member southey]

I dont see what the difference is between what you do\did santanaman and the local bobby stopping in for a brew in a shop or any where?

 

[santaman2000]

Southey it may well be a cultural difference here. I'm not sure. What a cop on patrol does is stop to eat a meal or use the restroom (all authorized breaks, no alcohol allowed) All restaurants (common street type anyway, not the posh ones) give minor discounts (usually just free coffee or other non alcoholic beverages) The cop on the beat is just doing as any citizen and choosing to have his meal where he can best afford to. Remember also that I'm not talking about a pub; the type restaurant I'm talking about would be most like a "Little Chef", Mcdonald's, or something similar. Realize that by doing so he is not only maintaining a presence (a visible presence) in the community but he is building a rapport with the community. And he desperately needs that rapport, trust and support to effectively do his job. Also remember what I said about most officers' habit of leaving a tip worth at least the same or greater value that any discount. He's really not receiving anything in the end.

Apart from what you said about the local Bobby having a "brew" (I assume you mean an beer) there is no difference in our stopping for a meal or said Bobby (assuming the Bobby gets an authorized meal break of course) stopping for a meal; although I do remember that there are fewer such restaurants in the UK and, no, a pub would not be acceptable here either.

Of course motives and public perception are paramount. If the public perceived it as corruption it would have to be stopped immediately. But they don't see it that way here. No more than they think of senior discounts or military discount (which are more widespread than restaurants) to be corrupt. In fact the public appreciate the presence in places they frequent (well except for the criminal element they do)

 

[big_swede]

Geez, poor cops. Imagine standing there, understaffed, underequipped and probably with guidelines to be non-provacative. A feeling of powerlessness. I wouldn't want to be one of them.

 

[shaggystu]

Generally frowned upon by most departments. You only go to the station (assuming there is actually a station in your patrol zone) for business reasons. I've spent weeks without ever going to the station. Eating with the public in a public restaurant maintains a police presence.

Southey it may well be a cultural difference here. I'm not sure.....

i think it's a huge cultural difference to be honest santaman. i'm no expert but i'd say that each beat bobby in the uk starts his working day in his station, i may be wrong but i do think that's the norm. likewise i don't think that beat bobbies would very often sit down in a cafe or similar for their lunch break, i think a quick sandwhich in the car is much more likely.

when southey said "brew" i think he was referring to a cup of tea, and he's right, british bobbies may well accept a cup of tea whilst they're "maintaining a presence" in a local shop or similar, and i agree entirely that there's nothing wrong with that at all. i've worked in the licenced trade for most of my life and as such used to get fairly regular visits from my local licencing officers, and they always got a cup of tea. what they never got was anything at all out of stock, which is the impression i got from your earlier post, that american police officers were getting free (or discounted) meals.

another cultural difference that you highlighted, i don't know of any high street names in the UK that give a forces discount, i may be wrong, but it's certainly not widespread. i'd say that says quite a bit about the way our different nations view certain things.

stuart

 

[MartinK9]

another cultural difference that you highlighted, i don't know of any high street names in the UK that give a forces discount, i may be wrong, but it's certainly not widespread. i'd say that says quite a bit about the way our different nations view certain things.

stuart

Stuart,

You'd be surprised mate:

http://www.forcesdiscount.com/

 

[shaggystu]

Stuart,

You'd be surprised mate:

http://www.forcesdiscount.com/

i am surprised to be honest martin, pleasantly so, i'm a little bit saddened though that there aren't more of the big name high street stores on there.

stuart

 

[GordonM]

Not to steal any of santaman's thunder, but, most restaurants give meal discounts to not only police officers but other first responders, firemen, EMTs and paramedics. Local governments allow their police officers to drive the police cars home. It provides a policing presence in the community, as well as, it provides quicker response times if an all hands situation demands. Heck, there are discounts and incentives for police, other first responders and public school teachers available for leasing an apartment or buying a home. All legal and acceptable and all are civil servants. Military discounts are out there, maybe not as widespread as some listed above, but they are there. I get a military veteran's discount at two of the gunshops and one sporting goods store I patronize. None of the above is looked upon as corrupt, here, by the vast majority.

Gordy

 

[santaman2000]

i think it's a huge cultural difference to be honest santaman. i'm no expert but i'd say that each beat bobby in the uk starts his working day in his station, i may be wrong but i do think that's the norm...

This varies widely here from department to department. When I worked as a patrol deputy with the Sheriff's Office, I was on duty and on patrol the moment I stepped out of my house, got in my patrol car, and called 10-86 (beginning shift) to the dispatcher and remained on that status until I got home and called 10-87...10-42 (ending shift....at home) At some point during my shift we would call dispatch with, "10-10 at (insert location here)" Meaning we were on lunch break but monitoring the radio for any recall if needed before we called 10-8 (return to patrol)

 

[rik_uk3]

Police in this country certainly did get discounts in different places or did when I mixed with them a lot. Even when I was nursing if on night shift we ordered in a takeaway we either got 'nurses discount' or a load of extra food thrown in; I always said thank you