Can anyone help me?

[SouthernCross]

G'day every one.

I just spent a perplexing time reading through the "RM Alan Wood Knives on Ebay" thread here: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34851

Now I know all about: "anything is worth what a buyer will pay", "it's not disgusting, it's Capitalsim", "it will increase in value therefore it's still a wise investment" etc, etc, etc.

I also understand that in the UK (and elsewhere I might add), that anything that appears to have Mr Mears name or endorsment associated with it will command a premium. Especially when related to the Woodlore knife when it is being hand made by a respected UK custom maker.

My request for help is really quite simple.

Can anyone direct me to any internet posts that have been made by anyone other than Ray Mears that show how usefull the Woodlore is in actual Bushcraft?

Now before anyone responds, I have some personal requirements that I would like to apply to help screen out the fanboy posts.

Since I'm trying to evaluate how usefull the Woodlore is as a user, I'm really not interested in seeing new in box, shiny pics.

What I'm really looking for is posts that show evidence of the knife in use (for this I would like to see video & not just posed photo's).

I also want to see video evidence that the woodlore has been used extensively in extended use so any comments about the edge retention & comfort of the handle in extended use is verifiable.

I would also like to see that the woodlore can do more than slice green softwoods. I would also like to see how it performs on seasoned, twisted grain & knotty hardwoods. This way I can tell how robust the supplied scandi edge is.

Any evidence that the woodlore can be used for more than just processing wood should also be included.

Now before anyone thinks the criteria I have applied is too harsh, can I suggest that they have a look here: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64893

and here: http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53342

As you can see, I'm not one to expect something from others that I'm not prepared to do myself.

I sincerly hope that those who read this don't think I'm a smart a$$e. Rather, I'm looking for verifable informed opinion as to whether or not as a using knife, the Woodlore is worth what it's going for, or whether it's just a fashionable must have item that will somehow infer Bushcraft expertise on any who wield it (a bit like excalibur did in battle )




Kind regards
Mick

 

[MSkiba]

Your going to struggle.

Most people who buy it keep it shiny and clean. I would too. Why rough it up when a mora can do the same job.

So far, I have not seen a knife that cannot last 6 months in the field, be it a £12 mora, or £100 F1 or other.

If you think about it, you can chop a monster tree with a mora. The question is how long have you got.

My question to you is, what can you do with the bark river knife you reviewed that a £12 mora cannot do? I would say very little.

If what I say is true (debatable), then there is no need to pay more than £12 for a knife that will do all the tasks around the campfire, the rest of the money goes for looks, how it feels, logo, presentation and how its viewed by others.

 

[Toddy]

When I first joined the forum these knives weren't selling for silly money, they weren't considered to be collector's items.
They were just the best tools that folks could afford. They got a lot of use and they took it without any problems at all.
The first meet I went to it was still the done thing to lay out all the shinies in the camp and take a photo to show on the forum. Folks were still looking at them as working tools
I was very tempted, but I've got small hands and there are other knives that fitted me better.
I still think it's a very good bit of kit

cheers,
Toddy

http://www.magikelly.co.uk/meet2.jpg

 

[sapper1]

I had one for a while and really put it through it's paces.I used for everything I needed a knife to do.The knife performed as well as any other I've used and I've used a few.
I didn't like the knife and moved it on because the handle just didn't fit my hand.If the handle was more to my size then I would have kept it.
So to answer your questions,yes it will do all the things you expect it to and it will keep its edge,but no better or worse than any knife made the same way from the same materials.

 

[JonathanD]

I used a Woodlore for about six years before I bought and used a Tamarack, I sold that original but still have my antler version, but never use that now due to the value and having my own knife. Give MartinK9 a shout, he has 14 of them and uses them well. Quite a few of us had Woodlores when this forum first started as you could pic up the Wilky ones for £95 and the AW versions were easier to come by. If you do a search you will find hundreds of posts of us using them daily and giving them abuse (somewhere on here is a vid of a member using one as a thrower to great effect). There are till plenty of members who use them everyday. It's a good bush knife designed for rough use. I researched why people buy them last year, both here and on BB and it seems there are more users of the knife than collectors, but they have gained in collector status in the last four/five years.

As you can see from the edge, mine used to be well used....

Here's Martin whacking the beejesus out of his...

 

[John Fenna]

Your going to struggle.

Most people who buy it keep it shiny and clean. I would too. Why rough it up when a mora can do the same job.

So far, I have not seen a knife that cannot last 6 months in the field, be it a £12 mora, or £100 F1 or other.

If you think about it, you can chop a monster tree with a mora. The question is how long have you got.

My question to you is, what can you do with the bark river knife you reviewed that a £12 mora cannot do? I would say very little.

If what I say is true (debatable), then there is no need to pay more than £12 for a knife that will do all the tasks around the campfire, the rest of the money goes for looks, how it feels, logo, presentation and how its viewed by others.

£12! I can get hold of usable Moras (trad style with plastic sheath and painted wood handle for £8 - a perfectly usable (if not very pretty) knife that has been the basis for a lot of my knife prttification projects!

 

[MartinK9]

.......... post removed by me..

 

[Martyn]

Now before anyone responds, I have some personal requirements that I would like to apply to help screen out the fanboy posts.

Frankly, after your list of demands ...sorry ...requirements, I'm not sure anyone would take the time to bother. I'm not really sure why you are asking, are you considering buying one or do you just want to poke fun at those who have one?

It's a knife, it's made of metal and it cuts stuff.

If you want one yourself, there are dozens of makers who will make you a copy for a fraction of the cost of the genuine thing, or just go and buy a mora for £20 quid. Your money, your choice!

 

[sapper1]

£20 quid for a mora?

 

[Graham_S]

I've got one of the micarta ones.
It's a great user, I don't use it all the time, but I have quite a few knives available to me, so it goes into the rotation.
Nevertheless, it probably gets more use than any of the others.
It's certainly no "Drawer Queen"

 

[Martyn]

£20 quid for a mora?

Take your pick...

http://www.heinnie.com/Knives/Mora-Knives/c-1-92-304/

 

[sapper1]

You've read my post wrongly(I think)I meant that £20 for a mora was a lot of money.I didn't realise they made more expensive models.

 

[rancid badger]

Take your pick...

http://www.heinnie.com/Knives/Mora-Knives/c-1-92-304/

Or better still:
http://workshopheaven.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51F238922&rnd=63236&rrc=N&affl=&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=cat&ref=MORABUSH&catstr=HOME:Knivesgeneral:MORAB

I got a Mora bushcrafter Forest for £15 inc the postage.

A very well finished tool, of superior quality to the run of the mill Mora range

A very good user too, I 'd even be forced to admit, that even at £25, it's still worth every penny

Still think the sheaths supplied are pants, whether plastic or leather

cheers

R.B.

 

[Martyn]

You've read my post wrongly(I think)I meant that £20 for a mora was a lot of money.I didn't realise they made more expensive models.

No I meant take your pick - you can get em from £10 to £30, I just pitched £20 as a rough middle ground.

 

[C_Claycomb]

G'day every one.
....
I sincerly hope that those who read this don't think I'm a smart a$$e. Rather, I'm looking for verifable informed opinion as to whether or not as a using knife, the Woodlore is worth what it's going for, or whether it's just a fashionable must have item that will somehow infer Bushcraft expertise on any who wield it (a bit like excalibur did in battle )

Kind regards
Mick

Hi there,

Not a smart @rse, but all the bold text does give the impression that you are trying to push an agenda. It does read a bit like you are looking to deride people who have bought a Woodlore.

Clearly you spent a lot of time writing out the above post, but it isn't really clear why you are asking all this stuff. It doesn't sound like you are thinking of buying a Woodlore, and since you only refer to the Woodlore it doesn't read like an enquiry into the practical use of a full tang Scandi. You know the outdoors, you know knives, and you have spent a lot of time reading other threads here. To my thinking that more than qualifies you to answer all your questions without demanding that people furnish you with additional data.

I doubt that anyone has done such a thorough review, on video, as you did for that Bark River. If that is the only standard of proof that you will accept it might help if you posted why you are so interested in the Woodlore and made your angle a little less ambiguous. At the moment it kind of looks like you are asking for all this proof because you believe, and wish to show, that the Woodlore is inferior and/or over valued. Its a big ask for people to spend time digging out and posting reviews when the request has that appearance.

I can't imagine why anyone would write a post to score points or deride someone else's choice in gear, I am not saying that this is what you meant, certainly I can't imagine why you would do so, but like I said, that is how it reads.

 

[robevs73]

I have used AW Woodlore knife, WS Woodlore knife and clones I have made myself, in a nut shell they are great with wood, not bad with meat and crap with veg , if you are not a capable sharpener get some practice on a mora as its easy to cockup sharpening the grind.
It did sound like you wanted to slag off the woodlore mate! Ray's top dog in bushcraft hes not going to design and use a load of crap , is he?
As a personal thought I would not pick the woodlore as a single knife for a month in the bush I would go for a knife with a flat grind/secondary bevel and some DMT stones and a strop to maintain it.

 

[Tony]

I would suggest that you contact Woodlore directly, I've not read all this thread but even though I own a Ray/Alan woodlore i'm not going to be going out and making a vid on it just to prove something to someone else, I'd imagine the only people that might care enough are Woodlore.

It does what it says on the tin, it's a solid cut in tool.

Here's the contact info:

Contact Us
Talk to Woodlore

If you want to contact Woodlore directly, these are our details:

Telephone: +0044 (0)1580 819668
Fax: +0044 (0)1580 819668
 
Postal Address Woodlore Ltd
PO Box 3
Etchingham
East Sussex
TN19 7ZE
United Kingdom
 
Registered in England No. 3483274.

Registered Office: 66 Lincoln's Inn Fields, London, WC2A 3LH.
 
E-mail Address: info@raymears.com

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[JonathanD]

Seriously though. If it is the most personal and important bit of kit that RM owns, it's hardly a thing to scoff at. Might not do for some people as it is designed for his hands alone (which is why the SWC version is slimmer), but demand was high enough for him to stop selling it to Woodlore course students only and to put it onto the market. I would have thought that the small fact that it is THE most cloned bushcraft knife worldwide, be testament enough to it's ability. Before the Ebay ban, it kept alot of makers in full time employment doing just that. And post Ebay ban, it still does.

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Chris.

Not an agenda, but trying to get my head around the price that is being asked for the woodlore on the ebay thread (as I indicated at the start of this thread).

If it is a good knife, I can't see a problem with trying to find out how good a knife it is without waiting 10 years and spending a small fortune. If it is only as good as other knives that are selling for less (as some others have indicated), then it can't be it's value as a working tool that demands such high prices.

If it's the collectable value of a Woodlore that is seeing it go for such high prices, then like anything that is collectable, it's value is being driven by fashion.

However, since knife collecting and using are two different things, I can't see a problem with asking for verification that the opinions on the Woodlore as a using knife are being expressed by users & not just collectors.

The reason I would like to see video is that IMO a couple of pics really doesn't show how well a knife works in use.

Also seeing a knife being used over an extended period of time (obviously bearing in mind the limitations imposed by video hosting websites for the length of any single video) will provide information on the edge retention by showing how well the knife continues to cut throughout the video. This is something a couple of pictures can't do.

Call me cynical, but video will also give me an accurate idea as to whether the reviewer is able to give an informed opinion of the comfort of the handle in extended use. Why? Because IMO there is a big difference in the comfort of a handle when used for a couple of minutes as opposed to being used continuously for much longer periods of time.

My request about wanting to see if the woodlore has been used on more than green softwoods is because there is a difference in how a knife will perform when used on seasoned hardwoods (which is what I have access to). Again this is to get an idea of how versatile the woodlore is and how robust the supplied grind is.

From my own personal point of view, all the above characteristics are important considerations for a Bushcraft knife (along with ease of sharpening). That's why I have asked about them.

None of this information is being requested with the intention of showing the woodlore to be inferior, but rather, to help me determine just how good it is as a Bushcraft knife by using evidence & not just opinion (see my first two paragraphs).

With regards to demanding that people furnish me with additional data, I requested if anyone could provide links that showed the specific type of information that I was looking for. If it's available from the members here, then I would have thought they would have been able to save me the time by providing links. If it's not available, then a simple "can't help" would be sufficent.

If I have ruffled the feathers of any members here, I do appologise.



Kind regards
Mick

 

[MSkiba]

I'll save you the bother with looking for facts, watching vids and writing long posts (in bold writing).

There are better tools out there for the job. Yes it is overpriced for what it does as a tool, but the price is right as it has fashon value. If you dont care for the RM brand, this knife is not for you, do not invest.