UK's largest stag shot dead on Exmoor

[antzy]

from reports it seems that someone payed to shoot it, aside from the (rather dubious) arguements that estates need to raise money it seems to me that this is a waste.

As an aside I was once mountain biking on Dartmoor early one morning in the woods and came around a bend to see just such a mighty creature as this, standing across the path, sweating and steaming away. Didn't move and I couldn't figure out why, until I saw its rather large gentlemans thingy hanging down - seems that it was just catching its breath after an early morning work out. It waited until I managed to get out my camera and then just disapeared into the woods before I could get a shot.

 

[Matt.S]

from reports it seems that someone payed to shoot it, aside from the (rather dubious) arguements that estates need to raise money it seems to me that this is a waste.

There is actually no indication that someone paid to shoot the stag in question -- if it was the emporer that was shot at all. The reported 'facts' don't quite tie up, quel surprise.

Remember folks all this anger and vitriol against hunters is based on a news report carefully worded and quoted in order to imply certain things without being legally culpable for misinformation. Besides, why rely on a news outlet that thinks there is such a thing as a 'rifle licence'?

 

[Tengu]

Yes, why dont you complain over innaccurate reporting?

<goes out to feed her stags calcium tablets>

 

[British Red]

I can make neither head nor tail of the information concerned. If you know the animal was "legally shot", you know who shot it, with what rifle, on whose land, the nature of their permission and whether they were supervised or not. You have to if you know it was legal. If you know these things, you know what happened to the carcas and the creature in question and why it was killed. Anmals can be killed during the rut for a variety of reasons - disease, injury, all sorts.

There is no information here of any quality, just excuses to show our existing beliefs.

Red

 

[naefearjustbeer]

I can make neither head nor tail of the information concerned. If you know the animal was "legally shot", you know who shot it, with what rifle, on whose land, the nature of their permission and whether they were supervised or not. You have to if you know it was legal. If you know these things, you know what happened to the carcas and the creature in question and why it was killed. Anmals can be killed during the rut for a variety of reasons - disease, injury, all sorts.

There is no information here of any quality, just excuses to show our existing beliefs.

Red

That sums it up pretty well for me. There are not many facts given its all rumour and heresay. I wont make a judgement on it.

 

[Martyn]

See now why shoot in the rutting season? surely this prevents further population and thus future hunting? mongs.
also if it was just for trophy then the hunter should have his licence revoked, what a waste of a beautiful animal, if your going to kill something you best damned well be prepared to eat it!

You have to be careful about judging too quickly. I don't much like seeing this animal shot for it's head, but there are possible good reasons for it. I jumped to the same conclusion, but a friend of mine who knows far more about herd management that I ever will, suggested that if the stag had mated with females for the previous 4 years or more, then it would start mating with it's own daughters. There is a balance between allowing this animals good genetics into the gene pool, but preventing diseases entering the herd from inbreeding. I don't know if this is the reason why this mature stag was shot in the rut, but it is certainly a credible explanation. The point is, don't jump to conclusions. It's sad to see such a majestic animal shot, I wholly agree, but there may be solid herd management reasons for it - and if that is the case, then why not allow the estate and the future of the herd to profit from it by allowing it to be hunted as a trophy? If someone is stuipd enough to pay £5000 for this animals head, then that is a fair chunk towards the wages of a ghillie.

 

[rik_uk3]

More details are needed really, that said I'm not a lover of trophy hunting; putting food on a plate I have no problem with but use a bit of common sense.

 

[1234]

Wondered how long before this was raised...



Emotional rhetoric does nothing for your argument.

Trophy hunting is a bit like the ridiculously expensive driven bird days; I can't fathom the reason why some people would do it but it has enormous, real, direct benefits to the conservation of the countryside and discourages development of wild areas.

PLEASE people don't go off half-cocked. Read the article again. There is absolutely no indication that this was the stag in question -- for one the carcass is supposedly only 130Kg. For second the actual 'source' is some bloke from Dulverton with no recognisable credentials. Great so he lives in a town on the edge of the moor and claims to be a 'wildlife expert'. Doesn't make him correct, and I have a sneaking suspicion that there's something fishy about this.

im talking about trophy hunting in general, not this particular case

the price
no one owns an animal, we live alongside them
the unwritten law is that both human and animal benefit from each others presence, which is never the case, human take so much more than what they give.
following on from the above, if we don't own something what are we actually selling?

the kill
hunting for sport is the same as being a serial killer. you kill something because it makes your sick and twisted being feel good, no other reason. just because the animals body doesn't go to waste, the meat is sold to game dealers etc, it doesn't excuse the actual way in which the animal was killed.

 

[JonathanD]

hunting for sport is the same as being a serial killer.

Not really... Bit extreme that.

 

[Martyn]

hunting for sport is the same as being a serial killer. you kill something because it makes your sick and twisted being feel good, no other reason. just because the animals body doesn't go to waste, the meat is sold to game dealers etc, it doesn't excuse the actual way in which the animal was killed.

Cats hunt for sport, are they sick and twisted? Sick and twisted are meaningless concepts to an Antelope and a Lion.

People might choose to not hunt or kill, that is their will and their choice, but it is in our nature to hunt and kill. You might not like it and it might not sit well in your learned view of the world, but it is natural human behaviour. It might be distasteful to you personally, but it is neither sick, nor twisted for a predator to kill.

 

[Retired Member southey]

im talking about trophy hunting in general, not this particular case

the price
no one owns an animal, we live alongside them
the unwritten law is that both human and animal benefit from each others presence, which is never the case, human take so much more than what they give.
following on from the above, if we don't own something what are we actually selling?

the kill
hunting for sport is the same as being a serial killer. you kill something because it makes your sick and twisted being feel good, no other reason. just because the animals body doesn't go to waste, the meat is sold to game dealers etc, it doesn't excuse the actual way in which the animal was killed.

But it would have been killed in exctly the same way, if killed as part of an estate hunt, over seen by the keeper, and in a humane way, I would guess the body will go for meat and the head will be the trophy, after all it would be a shame to waste it eh!

 

[1234]

cats don't know any better

its in our nature to hunt for food or to protect ourselves, not for fun

 

[Martyn]

cats don't know any better

its in our nature to hunt for food or to protect ourselves, not for fun

Wrong, it is in our nature to be cruel. Nature is cruel. Cats do what they do. Sometimes we choose not to kill, but that is only because we have become so efficient at raping our planet, that we have that choice. Vegetarian humans were few and far between, 5000 years ago. You can choose not to do it, but it is in your nature to kill and hunt, for food or for fun.

 

[1234]

what has vegetarians got to do with it

 

[FGYT]

But it would have been killed in exctly the same way, if killed as part of an estate hunt, over seen by the keeper, and in a humane way, I would guess the body will go for meat and the head will be the trophy, after all it would be a shame to waste it eh!

probably get a few knife handles out of the rack

 

[Geoff Dann]

deer herds in UK are all very carefully managed

You're kidding, right? Some of them might be, but there's no shortage of deer running around southeast England that nobody is managing.

 

[Martyn]

They (vegetarians) have constructed a morality for themselves (as we all have), which is only possible because of the abundance of alternative foods. Any morality surrounding the killing of animals, is a human social construct. Arguably, vegetarians are the deviants from natural behaviour. I agree that we have evolved beyond simple biological programming, but we are not separated from the animal kingdom wholly. We still are animals. Our animal ancestors were no more sick and twisted killers than the Lion or the Cat. The human being is an apex predator species. You cannot pass a moral judgement on a predators urge to kill. You can argue that perhaps we should consider alternatives, but being sick and twisted doesnt come into it. Killing is programmed into our DNA. I promise you, without Sainsbury's, you'd turn into a sick and twisted killer pretty blimmin quickly.

 

[Graham_S]

Let's all keep it civil please.

 

[Retired Member southey]

probably get a few knife handles out of the rack

I aint sayin nuffink

 

[_mark_]

deer, deer, deer!