"Leave no Trace". Yeah right.

[Toddy]

I can truthfully say I've never organised one that either left me out of pocket, or that I had to clean up after everyone went home. The usual pack stuff away sometimes but that's it.

I try very, very hard not to over organise or mother folks. They are all adults and I want to enjoy the company too

I have no problems with folks having a sociable drink, no problems with adult conversations (I ask for reasonable bedtimes for youngsters so that adult conversations around the campfire later in the evening aren't awkward, and so far all of the adults have been great with the children that come along ) and anyone who has brought a dog with them to anything has always been more than courteous about clearing up.

By nature I prefer a tidy camp, it's just easier to move around, get things done, but when it's busy helping hands are appreciated.
I do have a pet hate of walking into a camp and finding the crates of booze in full view, but that's *my* issue. I might hand folks a green bin bag and ask them to put it into it if the site is at all public for a part of the day, but that's it. Makes the clear up easier too
Wayland's recycling bin bags are a good idea when there are more than two or three of us, as well

Generally I find if someone starts clearing up other folks help out, but then none of us are really guilty of leaving trash anyway.

I'm sorry that Simon (and he is not the only one who) has found some meets to be a problem at times

I think it's maybe easier for us up here because we get out quite a lot, meets are just a more sociable event for us.
Many of us felt it was time to move that social side along a bit and actually do a lot more hands on, so the next one we've called a Skills Sharing, and folk have agreed up front to share the cost of the hall.
In Summer I think we'd just work outdoors, but this allows us to work long after dark at handcraft stuffs in these early nights.

I don't think I have any right to demand that no one drinks. It's a social event still, and I see no reason why folks can't have a drink.
I freely admit I'm not a fan of individuals who get totally wasted though. What's the point ? Enjoy the company, enjoy a drink in their company, don't be an iijit.
A few 'very' mellow individuals who get told exaggerated stories the next day of how very drunk they were, and what they said and did, and they go a little easier the next night
Aggressive drunkeness has no place on events like ours.

As for the mess on site, and the work that needs done, well, sometimes folks don't know 'how' to help; but they're more than happy if someone asks for a hand.

"Could you maybe see to the firewood ?, there's a saw and an axe there and **** will be happy to show you where/ how/ help out."

"Do you think we could have a wee redd up after dinner ? Get set for the evening without tripping over all this clutter ? "

"Can I get a hand lift these bin bags over to the recycling ?"

"Anyone up for helping bring down a dead standing from up the hill? "

"Could someone keep an eye on the fire for me ? It could do with more wood"

"Is that kettle on ? Go on then mine's a black coffee with two sugars Cheers "

If people feel welcome, and involved, then I find everyone helps out and we all have a good meet with no extra work for anyone.

I don't know what I'd do afterwards if I had to litter pick the camp once the offenders had sloped off. Yeah, I'd be pretty cheesed off

cheers,
Toddy

 

[gregorach]

Maybe we just have a smaller, more cohesive group up here? While there's usually one or two new faces at every Scottish meet, most of the folks who show up already know each other, at least to some extent. We're all friends, or friends of friends, and nobody likes to let their friends down.

 

[Claudiasboris]

This all sounds rather dissappointing. Unfortunately I've not been able to get to any of the meets for a number of reasons, but have been looking forward to doing so at some, as yet unrealised, date. The prospect of a ****-up in the woods doesn't really fit my bushcraft objectives though, and judging by the above posts, I'm not the only one.

Maybe I'm better off sticking to putting a tarp in my back garden as usual

Claudiasboris

 

[R3XXY]

It really is a sad state of affairs, the majority of people are nothing more than ignorant, selfish primates with no regard for other people or the environment they inhabit.

It can be witnessed everyday in all walks of life, the only way that I can see to tackle such things is to lead by example in the vain hope that people will follow.

 

[Andy2112]

It's not just the "drinkers" who leave a mess, so i think it's unfair to point the finger solely at them tbh, at one meet there were fizzy pop bottles, water bottles, cooking pots and cutlery lying around in the morning !! Anyway , this thread is about rubbish being left, irrespective of if that person or persons drinks or not imo.

 

[tim_n]

SimonM - sounds like you were well entitled to a moan. It's pathetic of people not to clear up for themselves, especially if they're bushcrafters.

I hope to find an essex meet sometime soon!

 

[Wayland]

Personally, I find it amazing how much rubbish people take with them to a meet. If it wasn't for clearing up after other people I rarely have more than a handful of rubbish to dispose of after a weekend.

Before starting out I decant my booze into a re-usable container of some kind and my food packaging is usually burnt off, at times when the fire is free of cooking, as I go through the weekend.

Tins and bottles seem to be the main problem for most people but shouldn't we be taking them home to recycle anyway?

One problem that occurred at Simon's meet was that a barrel full of ash had been dumped at the side of the camping field. That might not seem too much of a problem until you consider that on scout camps most of the firewood is pallets and crates so the ash was full of nails.

This dumped on a site used for activities by cubs and scouts! Come on guys, just think about it a bit will you.

The end result was Simon, Philip and myself sifting through the ash and mud by hand to remove half a pound of nails and staples. Not a pleasant job and good on Phil for joining in on the task on his first meet with us.

 

[tim_n]

Makes me thankful we teach the kids at scouting age to sift their ash and sprinkle it into the bushes.

 

[swyn]

Ian I'm sorry you have had this problem. I've been put in a similar position at one of our earlier hoots. Folks just upped and left! Leaving me, and others, to clear up
I still run an annual meet but on a much smaller and more personal scale as I feel that this is the only way to thin out the 'problems' which were becoming embarrassing to say the least! Mainly alcohol related.

Swyn.

 

[SMARTY]

I must say I'm shocked and dissapointed to hear the above posts. I organised and ran the Cornwall Rv for the last 3 years. 2009 had over 100 people camping in the woods. At the end I did a walk round and found NO trash of any discription. So there ARE responsible Buschcrafters out there. You just have to brief and manage them as the organiser.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Its all the fault of those who made tipi-like festival tents affordable. That and hand-painted Hunter Wellingtons to enable cute chicks to trip the ash fantastic.

After all, where exactly does a festival goer retire in winter if not Bushcraft meets? That's assuming of course they didn't abandon the tent along with all their other carp at Glastonbury!

Cheers

 

[ol smokey]

I agree with most of the above comments from people that are disgusted by this behaviour. It is interesting that this has just come up justnow. It is not long since Scotland have changed the Laws of the Countryside to permit Freedom to Roam the countryside with very few restrictions if done Responsibly. However, I am informed by my wife that on today's Scottish news in T.V. that Wild camping is to be BANNED around Loch Lomond, which is a lovely senic area, Just because of this very problem.
Like Scandinavia we were pleased to achieve the privelege of freedom, in return for
responsible behaviour, But as with most things in this life, The few spoil things for the majority. Like some others, I like small meets organised privately among trusted friends
with one or two additional new friends permitted to come along and learn by good
example. I never dreamed that Bushcrafters would let the side down as I thought that
Leave no trace was a basic principal of the organisation.

 

[mayobushcraft]

You might try to tactfully say to everyone that you had this problem before and that you expect everyone to pick up after themselves early in the day. And that anyone not leaving the area clean will not be asked back. It sucks that people cant act like adults. If you leave with more trash than you brought then you are the better person and can stand tall. It’s called INTEGRITY

 

[Frazer]

I honestly thought that that the people attending these would also be the sort who would bring a spare bin bag to pick up any rubbish they find on their way to / from / at camp.

These don't sound like the actions of responsible bushcraftrs / wild campers / adults at all.

Leave only foot prints, take only memories and all that.

 

[wanderinstar]

It would seem that reading all the comments that everyone agrees with what I am saying. Which is good.
I like the idea of selling everyone a bin liner for 50p, proceeds to the site. Perhaps there should be an unwritten rule that on arrival on site you find the organiser and pay up front, before you even set up. I personally would have no problem with this.
Lastlywhat do people think about a blacklist of people who have not paid or left there pitch littered with rubbish. Published on here for everyone to see. Name and shame.
Finally someone said "leave the site as you find it". I would like to suggest you leave it BETTER than you find it.

 

[rik_uk3]

Make the rules clear at the start, also make it clear that you will name and shame those that don't follow the rules its as simple as that. If people think thats harsh then tough, you don't need them on your camp.

 

[phill_ue]

Sounds like a good enough reason to steer clear of organised meets to me. I'll stick with my mates, they know how to conduct themselves and don't need to be bitched at on a public forum!

 

[wanderinstar]

Phil, if your mates know how to behave there wouldn't be any need "to bitch at them on a public forum". As usual it is the few that spoil it for the many.

 

[phill_ue]

Phil, if your mates know how to behave there wouldn't be any need "to bitch at them on a public forum". As usual it is the few that spoil it for the many.

Don't allow them on site then, simple. If the pitches are left a mess, then it must be known who stayed there. Don't invite them back, I can't see what the fuss is about. The only reason I can see for allowing them back after they have left the place a tip is for financial reasons. Is it worth having people mess your place up just because they pay a few quid for the privilege?

 

[rancid badger]

This is the exact same reason I will not organise anything beyond FC/FoCW fund raising events, here at Chopwell

There are far too many "wannabe's" who just see and use,'Bushcraft' as an excuse to camp in a woodland, light a fire (usually huge), play with knives and axe's and drink too much.

Why would I want to organise any sort of get together here at Chopwell, just to be held responsible for and have to deal afterwards with, the issues caused by a few self centered, totally ignorant arxehxles.

It's really sad, that these people can't seem to understand that their behaviour, is actually self defeating. By that; I mean that the more they do it, the less places there are to do it! ( if that makes sense?)

As far as booze goes; I personally feel; that it should be left at home, when edged tools and fires are involved and this is one of the main reasons I make no effort, either to attend (or organise our own) these "meets".

I much prefer a good belly full of food and a mug of coffee, then a bit of chatter/discussion, when I'm out and about. I don't need alcohol to relax or feel at ease.

Probably too boring for most folk

Never Mind

R.B.