Shotgun/FAC

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Do you have a FAC or Shotgun licence?

  • I've got a Shotgun licence

    Votes: 37 21.8%
  • I've got a Firearms certificate

    Votes: 14 8.2%
  • I've got both :-)

    Votes: 52 30.6%
  • I'm thinking of applying for one or both...

    Votes: 67 39.4%

  • Total voters
    170

Nagual

Native
Jun 5, 2007
1,963
0
Argyll
As Tony was seeking advice from folks who have them,it would seem a pointless option.:rolleyes: :)
Not in my opinion, it's like having a poll that asks who likes apples and only having 'Yes' as an answer. There may people who have considered getting one or both but then decided against it for whatever reason :rolleyes: :) But hey each to there own, and since it is Tonys site I'm not saying nuffin guv'nor.. :D



Nag.
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
24,193
1
1,939
53
Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
Keith would be more than happy to let us shoot over at his place ;) Ahh, that reminds me, time to jump over to the wales meet thread...
 

Toadflax

Native
Mar 26, 2007
1,783
5
64
Oxfordshire
As Tony was seeking advice from folks who have them,it would seem a pointless option.:rolleyes: :)

Then again, there may be folks like myself who would like to shoot occasionally but, for whatever reason, don't want the hassle of owning a gun /licensing it (i.e. people who would like to go out on a shoot with someone who is licensed). I'm not sure if this is legal in the UK, and I'm not proposing lawbreaking, but an example is the only time I shot a wild animal when I was visiting relatives in the USA.

They were licensed to shoot and allowed me to shoot a deer for them. It was a moving and rewarding experience, knowing that I was capable of obtaining meat from the wild. I can't say I enjoyed killing an animal, but it is something that I feel that I would like to repeat occasionally to bring me into touch with the actual sources of meat.

So my answer to a poll would be I don't have one and am not considering applying for one.


Geoff
 

UKdave

Forager
Mar 9, 2006
162
0
53
Ontario, Canada
Toadflax
It is indeed legal to shoot somebody elses rifle/shotgun provided that they are with you and they have the right to shoot on the land you are on as to the legality of shooting animals in the USA, you would be Very surprised at how strickly monitered they are on this,as an example in [most] states you are only allowed to take 1 species (antlered) of deer per season and the seasons are VERY short, then they have differant class of "weapon" eg theres Bow season,muzzle loader season rifle season and so forth.
The impression i get from non shooters over here of the yanks is that they grab there "gun" and head to the hills for dinner, this actually couldnt really be further from the truth,I usually visit the USA twice a year and Canada once and in speaking with the others in camp they are astounded at how long and leniant our game seasons are.
Dave
 
Mar 30, 2007
7
0
Nyack, NY
Living in NY State I don't need a license to possess a "long gun" (shotgun or rifle), but I recently got my pistol license. Now my fingerprints are on file with the FBI forever. <sigh>
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
Someone's been voting! :rolleyes:

Not a bad thing though, as I am now very very interested in going to shotgun and FAC. This is where I can pick the collective brains of knowledgeable people, so here goes. It's not gonna happen for quite some time yet, I'll need to sort out a gun fund first(!) but if I was to get my Rapid upped to above 12 ft lbs, how far would I have to go before a longer barrel was required? After a while, the excess air is just wasted, hence the longer barrel, but if I could up the power to even 15 or 20 ft lbs, it would make quite a difference. Would it be feasible whilst keeping it the same so that I could reduce the power back to 12 ft lbs if required and keep the look of the rifle original?

I could upgrade the barrel and gubbins inside, but just want to know if I can do this first, it may make it easier to go that way and then save up for an FAC Rapid as well! Apparently, you can never have enough guns! :D
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,731
1,983
Mercia
To a large degree my question would be "why"? You can get a more powerful, flatter shooting, equally accurate rifle for less money. I guess ammo would be a bit cheaper with an FAC airgun but still.....??

You can get a perfectly adequate bunny bashing rimfire for less than a new good spring powered air rifle. You can get a customised .17HMR with scope for less than a top PCP rifle and it will drop but a couple of inches from 25 yards out to 125 yards. Perfectly good on hare sized prey too.


Come to that a second hand game shottie is your for &#163;150.

TBH the role of an FAC air rifle is pretty limited IMO

Red
 
May 12, 2007
1,663
1
69
Derby, UK
www.berax.co.uk
To a large degree my question would be "why"? You can get a more powerful, flatter shooting, equally accurate rifle for less money. I guess ammo would be a bit cheaper with an FAC airgun but still.....??

You can get a perfectly adequate bunny bashing rimfire for less than a new good spring powered air rifle. You can get a customised .17HMR with scope for less than a top PCP rifle and it will drop but a couple of inches from 25 yards out to 125 yards. Perfectly good on hare sized prey too.


Come to that a second hand game shottie is your for £150.

TBH the role of an FAC air rifle is pretty limited IMO

Red

You know which way to go now Spam

Bernie
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
Money is the object! I have a Rapid already, so could turn it up whilst my gun fund gets fatter! From where I was last night with Ratbag on his shoot, we could see some guys lamping with the odd ricochet sound now and then. They were obviously using moderated rifles, but they are in the valley. We are on open exposed areas with no absolute backdrop in 90 per cent of our permissions' land. At least I know that with an FAC air rifle I won't be killing somebody a mile away! And again, due to the land, proper rifles may not be an option.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,731
1,983
Mercia
The backstop point is well made and if the land is only suitable for an air rifle then its a good call to keep it that way - I know of vermin controllers who use air rifles for "restricted power locations" (e.g. feral pigeon control inside farm buildings etc.).

Given airguns aren't really my bag beyond occasional vermin control with a springer, I can't really add much other than the only advice I would rely on would be the manufacturer for "how to" advice and the local police firearms team in terms of licensing, requirements for proofing (not sure how that applies to FAC airguns) etc.

Red
 
the rapid can be upped in power with out a longer barrel but not as you say to its potental but enough to make a differnce. you need at least 17to 20ft lbs to be worth the hassle any less and your not really geting anything for the cost etc
you also need it to be done correctly by hte right people to get it registered as a fire arm

and once doen even if you reset it to 12ft lbs its still a FAC and restricted by that so if you have only nominated land ie Not an open ticket you can only use it on that land etc untill you get it offically returned to a Non FAC which may require technically destroying and remaking as a new gun ( change teh Serial no :D ) cant remember but this may only be ness for FAC from new guns due to teh you cant change the sect of a gun once made etc ie no more 303 No 4 bored out to .410 shotgun )

any way back to the point

no i dont have FAC or Shot nearlly did a few years ago to shoot practical competition but decided against it in the end (Still have the Cabinet and custom ammo lock ups at home if any body needs to store a lot of Solid slug and .338 lap :D :D :rolleyes: )
have never had a sensible land for a FAC for hunting and have been happy with Non FAC airgun
i would look at the .17 HMR stuff for vermin maybe a 5.56 if a lot of fox but if you want Deer you need a minimum size and power cartrige that wont leave you a lot of Rabbit for tea :D
Depends if you want one gun or many i suppose
never really liked Scatter guns only any good for taking doors of hinges :lmao: where you need a short 3+ shot so sect 1 any way

ATB

Duncan
 

Longstrider

Settler
Sep 6, 2005
990
12
59
South Northants
I see that this thread has been running for some time. Have you taken the plunge yet Tony ? If not, why not ? :p :D
As has been said, for the application for a Shotgun Certificate you should stand every chance of success if you have somewhere safe to keep the gun, you don't have a criminal record, you can find a couple of 'suitable' people to counter-sign for you. As a law abiding citizen of the UK it is actually your right in law to posess a shotgun as long as you have done nothing to invalidate that right. Unless the police can find a good reason not to issue the certificate then they must grant it.
A Firearm certficate is a different matter. With an FAC it is up to the applicant to show good reason as to why he/she should be allowed to posess the firearms he/she has requested permission to own. It is not your right to own a firearm, and therefore the onus is on you to prove to the police that you have good and just cause to do so.
If you have the written permission of a landowner to use a firearm on his land for the purpose of pest/vermin control, and the police are happy that the land is suitable for the use of that firearm, and you can store the firearm and ammo in an appropriate way (gun cabinet) and you can fulfill the requirements of the shotgun certificate application, then there shouldn't be too much problem with the grant of your FAC.
Shooting permission must state "firearm" or "rifle", simply having something in writing that says "shooting" will not do as this could mean with air-rifle or shotgun. The landowner will be contacted (maybe even visited) by the police prior to the grant of a certificate. Too many people have tried to 'pull a fast one' in the past and attempted to get a rifle when all they have permission to shoot with is a shotgun :rolleyes:
The land must be deemed suitable for the use of the firearm you are applying for too. Too many footpaths crossing it, or being too small and/or surrounded by housing, busy public roads or other 'concerns' will not help your application at all. the police look at the land you have permission to shoot over on maps and on the ground to check that it's suitable.

Other assorted thoughts that come to mind are...
With a shotgun certificate you can own whatever legal shotguns you'd like, and can buy however much ammo as you'd like at a time (you'll find that buying 1000 at a time works out cheaper in the long run ;) ) The seller of a shotgun will need to put details on your certificate and tell the police in writing that the gun has been sold to you, (the holder of certifiacte number ******* ) and I've always found it best to write to the police myself to confirm the transaction.
You must have your shotgun certificate with you to show the seller when you buy ammunition, but the sale is not noted on the certificate. The vendor may well keep a record for his own purposes though.

With an FAC it's a different matter again. You have to state at the time of application... What type (bolt acton / semi-auto) of rifle you want,
What calibre it will be (I'm assuming you'd be looking at .22 LR Rimfire ?),
Whether or not you would like to have a sound moderator fitted to the rifle
How much ammunition you'd like to be able to buy at one time
How much ammunition you'd like to be able to have in your posession at any one time

When you buy ammo, the ammount and type of ammo sold to you will be registered on your certificate by the vendor. He won't sell you more than you are allowed to buy at one time. He may also query your reasons for trying to buy 500 rounds on Monday and another 500 rounds on Tuesday if you are only allowed to keep 750 rounds at a time.
A good plinking session will soon see off 250 rounds so it's possible that you would be staying within the law, but don't try it too often unless you desperately want a visit from the firearms officer of your local nick, coming to see what you've got at home and asking searching questions ;)

When you buy your rifle, the seller must fill in the details on your FAC and note the serial number, type, calibre etc etc on there and he/she must write to the police telling them of the sale or transfer. Again, I like to be double-sure by sending a letter myself too ;)

If you apply for a .22LR Rimfire for pest control (bunnies) remember to always put down on the applicatuion that the rifle and ammo will be used for "Pest Control and Zeroing" otherwise you are technically breaking the law if you set your sights using anything but live quarry :eek: The FAC will not be issued with the word "rabbits" on it, it will always say "pest control". This is good because you are then not limited to what quarry you can shoot (as long as you have permission to shoot the species in question from the landowner or owner of the 'sporting rights')

From what I've seen most first time FAC applicants are limited to where they are allowed to use the rifle, normally only on the land/permission used for the application. Sometimes there will be an additional proviso added that states that you may only shoot if accompanied by an experienced shot with the type of rifle you have, although this is more prevalent with applications for heavier calibre stuff than .22 rimmy.
First time applications for a .22 rimmy will normally result in an ammo allowance of being able to hold 750 rounds, and buy 500 at any one time. In all honesty this should be plenty for anyone not emplyed as a professional pest controller or working in a similar environment. When you renew your licence they will look at the amounts of ammo you've bought, and when. If you can show that you are using lots of the stuff, then now is the time to apply for a greater amount bought/held. First time appicants who ask for more than the 500 / 750 norm are normally 'advised' by the firearms officer who does the "home visit" to ammend their expectations ;)
Foxes are counted as pests/vermin for the sake of your FAC and can be taken with the .22 but deer are NOT. Not under any circumstances.
 

elma

Full Member
Sep 22, 2005
608
10
62
Ynysddu south wales
I've got both and cutting down as I've got carried away over the years
12 gaugeo/u clays & a semi for pigeons & bunnies
sako quad 22rim & 17hmr bunnies & varmint
6mm Br long range varmint & fox
3006 & 243 Deer.

the rifles used the most are 3006 for deer and 17Hmr for everything else

Ian
 

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