Preparedness, do any practise it?

[Eric_Methven]

Protection from looters...it's very very easy to make your own mace type spray from chilli peppers and a whole lot more dangerous sprays from household chemicals, black widow type catapults with wheel nuts as ammo...if you don't have access to guns... ok this is last resort stuff but it can be done and there are other things that cannot be discussed here that you can do...

If the looters are close enough to use mace or pepper spray on them, then you're probably already in deep doo-doos. I'm not saying I'd ever use any of this stuff, but let's just say I'll defend what's mine if I have no other choice. I found that joining a living history society and re-enactment group allowed me to justifiably keep various Viking and Medaeval bits and bobs. Bows, arrows, crossbows, swords etc. Lethal from a distance if society ever got that bad, and lets face it, if it ever did get that bad, law and order would probably have completely collapsed so it'd be every man for himself.

Eric

 

[spamel]

If the looters are close enough to use mace or pepper spray on them, then you're probably already in deep doo-doos. I'm not saying I'd ever use any of this stuff, but let's just say I'll defend what's mine if I have no other choice. I found that joining a living history society and re-enactment group allowed me to justifiably keep various Viking and Medaeval bits and bobs. Bows, arrows, crossbows, swords etc. Lethal from a distance if society ever got that bad, and lets face it, if it ever did get that bad, law and order would probably have completely collapsed so it'd be every man for himself.

Eric

I like your way of thinking Eric! Seems like you have everything you need to defend your "castle"!

 

[Torak]

Eric/Red,

What type of grain mill do you use? I have seen this on ebay

http://http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Grain-mill-flour-mill-HAWOS-Queen-1-new_W0QQitemZ220126363702QQihZ012QQcategoryZ3202QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Any recommendations.

Thanks,
Torak

 

[spamel]

Your link seems a bit wrong. Is this the one you are looking at?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Grain-mill-fl...oryZ3202QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Eric_Methven]

Eric/Red,

What type of grain mill do you use? I have seen this on ebay

http://http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Grain-mill-flour-mill-HAWOS-Queen-1-new_W0QQitemZ220126363702QQihZ012QQcategoryZ3202QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Any recommendations.

Thanks,
Torak

It's a bit expensive, mind you it does have a motor. Not a lot of use then if there's no power. Mine is cast metal with metal grinding plates and is hand cranked. It's a lot of work, but the grandkids love taking turns especially if I let them knead the dough as well. Mine cost £20 and I got it in 1998 as part of my Y2K preps.

Eric

 

[xylaria]

If the looters are close enough to use mace or pepper spray on them, then you're probably already in deep doo-doos. I'm not saying I'd ever use any of this stuff, but let's just say I'll defend what's mine if I have no other choice. I found that joining a living history society and re-enactment group allowed me to justifiably keep various Viking and Medaeval bits and bobs. Bows, arrows, crossbows, swords etc. Lethal from a distance if society ever got that bad, and lets face it, if it ever did get that bad, law and order would probably have completely collapsed so it'd be every man for himself.

Eric

After the roits in the early eighties, the police had to used plate armoured horses, with riders with shield and batons, to get Toxeth back under the rule of law. I have seen roit control after football macthes. I have always felt that medieval battle knowlegde still has modern uses. My household also is well stocked in that respect. Things like bows also double up as hunting equiptment, and arrows are reusable.

I know not what weapons will be used to fight world war 3 but world war 4 will be fought with sticks and stones Albert Einstein

 

[Eric_Methven]

This is a good thread about preparedness folks, but let's be cautious about mentioning arms and armaments here. I'd hate to see this thread get closed down. There's a lot of life in it yet.

Eric

 

[spamel]

There are a lot of skills that would be very useful in a self reliant mode. My wife is currently making me a woolen blanket, crocheted! It's taking some time, and a fair bit of wool, but it is quite warm already and will be a fantastic bit of kit for throwing around my shoulders and sitting next to the fire on a cold night. How many people here can knit or crochet? Probably not that many considering the membership. It could be useful to know, unless you intend to wear buckskin and have all of your slleping gear made of the same!

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Knitting and crocheting are excellent ways to create exactly what you want at a fraction of the cost plus the satisfaction of accomplishment.
My mother -in law knitted a "tuque" for me o so many years ago using double strands of wool and the smallest kneedles, it is very tight and extremely warm kept my noggin warm and dry on the trap line, bless her one of my treasures for certain.

 

[British Red]

The best kind Torak are "Country Living" Grain Mills - sadly though they are not available in the UK. For a reasonable alternative try the "Sprint" model here

http://www.ascott-shop.com/acatalog/Mills__and_Shellling_Machines.html

Red

 

[scoops_uk]

This is a good thread about preparedness folks, but let's be cautious about mentioning arms and armaments here. I'd hate to see this thread get closed down. There's a lot of life in it yet.

I think a sensible series of discussions on this subject is something BCUK is missing, but they do tend to degenerate.

What has always nagged me is that when law and order collapse you always seem to get get gangs of well armed looters/militia. I'm not convinced that it is possible to fortify a house to withstand a sustained (several hours) attack. Frankly, a typical 7.5 tonne truck/JCB can be driven through most domestic walls. You would also need to be geographically isolated, difficult in the UK, to avoid discovery and chances are if you're linked to a road you will be discovered by people who want what you have sooner or later.

Scoops

 

[Torak]

It's a bit expensive, mind you it does have a motor. Not a lot of use then if there's no power. Mine is cast metal with metal grinding plates and is hand cranked. It's a lot of work, but the grandkids love taking turns especially if I let them knead the dough as well. Mine cost £20 and I got it in 1998 as part of my Y2K preps.

Eric

Thanks for sorting out the bad link Spamel.
Eric, Where did you get your mill?

 

[Eric_Methven]

I think a sensible series of discussions on this subject is something BCUK is missing, but they do tend to degenerate.

What has always nagged me is that when law and order collapse you always seem to get get gangs of well armed looters/militia. I'm not convinced that it is possible to fortify a house to withstand a sustained (several hours) attack. Frankly, a typical 7.5 tonne truck/JCB can be driven through most domestic walls. You would also need to be geographically isolated, difficult in the UK, to avoid discovery and chances are if you're linked to a road you will be discovered by people who want what you have sooner or later.

Scoops

I agree. So camouflage is the answer. I don't mean DPM, but if you live in an urban area, there's lots you can do to make your property the least appealing to looters. uPVC front and back door (they are very hard to break down), nothing flash in your garden, nets up at the window (unwashed) and you can have 18mm plywood shutters to put behind them painted black so they are not visible from the outside. The shutters can be secured with lengths of mild steel bar across the top and bottom and these in turn can be fixed directly to the walls with rawlbolts and wing nuts. They can be unobtrusive in normal daily existence yet easy to put up in an emergency. All the material can be bought from B&Q and the timber saw operator will even cut the plywood to your exact sizes. An afternoon's work.

If you live out in the country, at the end of a drive, you can block the entrance with oil drums filled with rocks and topped off with cement. These will deter all but the most determined looters. An alternative driveway block in the countryside is a cattle grid. Dig a trench right across the driveway. Line it with concrete so it is about three feet deep by six feet wide and as long as the track is wide. Lay scaffold poles across so it looks and behaves like a conventional cattle grid, but don't secure them. When you enter the driveway, stop on the inside and lift out the poles. Have somewhere nearby to hide them (in a hollow under a pile of rotting dung is good). Anybody trying to get up the drive will be stopped in their tracks and will probably look for an easier target.

That's the secret here. Always try to make someone else's property look like a better choice.

The advantage also with the plywood inner shutters is that if the power is out and everywhere is in darkness, the shutters will block out the light from your oil lamps so any looters will not see light in your windows as an invitation.

You can tell I've thought about all this before, eh?

Eric

 

[Eric_Methven]

Eric, Where did you get your mill?

From an internet site set up for Y2K to sell preparedness stuff. It doesn't exist any more but I got my water filter from them at the same time. The mill is Italian. I'll see if I can find a link for it, but we're going back nearly nine years so I can't actually remember.

Eric

 

[cariboo]

Interesting. We live isolated off a logging road then at the end of a 1.5 km dirt and mud road surrounded by "crown" land.

When we first came here 11yrs ago we wanted a couple of dumps of gravel to smooth out the single lane road because it was so bad with gutters and holes. In the spring we can't get out. We thought about it(sometimes being cash poor is a bonus). We did not fix it at all. We now know it is a great deterrent.

We have no phone, no locks on our doors, no cutains on our windows. Our 4 x 4 road is our security.
It's single lane. Scum better be sure we are not home or on our way home.

http://www.caribooblades.com/aboutus.html

 

[scoops_uk]

I agree. So camouflage is the answer. I don't mean DPM, but if you live in an urban area, there's lots you can do to make your property the least appealing to looters.
<snip>
If you live out in the country, at the end of a drive, you can block the entrance with oil drums filled with rocks and topped off with cement.... Anybody trying to get up the drive will be stopped in their tracks and will probably look for an easier target.

That's the secret here. Always try to make someone else's property look like a better choice.

You can tell I've thought about all this before, eh?

Hi Eric,

I agree and disagree with you

I agree that making "next door" look a better prospect is a good tactic, but one day you'll be spotted sneaking in/out of your hideaway and humans are curious creatures. When I put myself in the place of a "hungry looter" gang, the idea that someone is holed up somewhere with a large supply of food seems very appealing. I'd be very interested in attempts to disuade me to go somewhere. Especially if a bit of observation revealed only a few occupants.

I like your cattle grid idea, but I'd suggest a broken cattle grid, looks less suspicious than an empty cattle grid. Just interchange a few broken/damaged poles for the good ones you hide. The grid is still impassable (for vehicles) but doesn't look like it's been made into a barrier.

Anyway, enough picking fault with your plan, here's mine...

My plan is to use a small (can navigate rivers if necessary) trailable sailing boat. When the fan goes stinky I head for the sea. Assuming I make it, I then get well away from the shore (a mile or two out to sea) and head for a nice empty stretch coastline somewhere. A small boat is very easy to hide on a coastline, allows me to travel indefinitely and silently without the need for fuel, provides access to good forraging and means I can steer well clear of settlements and roads. Being anchored 100m offshore in a bay a few miles from the nearest road with the ability to retreat out to sea appeals to me.

Of course looters can drive motorboats, my plan relies on being small, discrete, isolated and mobile.

I'm hoping to build and kit out a small boat specifically for indefinite coastal cruising, but at the moment I'm afraid it's a cruisable sailing dinghy or the calamity will have to wait lol

Here's one of the designs I'm considering: http://www.geoss.com.au/eun_mara/alec_bermagui.htm

If nothing else, it's a nice flight of fancy and any plan is better than no plan. Plus I get a nice boat

Scoops

 

[Eric_Methven]

A boat is all good and well, but what if the incident happens in mid winter, and what about pirates? You won't be the only one with that idea.

It's a reasonable plan, but it needs thinking about in very great detail and it needs a lot of planning with caches of food and gear stashed at secret coastal locations for when the weather prevents you from taking to the water.

Back to my plan. I doubt looters would watch a specific house for too long. They will most likely be roving around in a gang looking for easy pickings. In many cases they will be druggies and as soon as they can't get a fix they'll start fighting each other. After a couple of weeks, when they have looted all the easy houses and they have consumed all the food, have no more cigarettes and drink, they'll start fighting gang to gang. After a month, there won't be nearly as many trouble makers as at the start. The ones left will be hard ba$$tards though and will be the ones you have to contend with. The plan would be not to leave the house at all for the first month (unless absolutely necessary) and then deal with the remaining baddies using the ordinance previously mentioned. In the event you did have to come and go from the house, moving after dark, in the wee small hours would be an SOP. When it came time to return to the house, you would lie low and wait till night time. There'll be no street lamps so nobody is going to see you, especially as you'll be cammed up and have your covert brain in gear. SOP's will need to be pre arranged with whoever you share the house with so they can recognise your return signal to let you in. You won't have house keys with you when you go out in case you are captured. Reasons to go out could be to dispose of bags of human waste (toilets might not be flushing) and collecting drinking water. These can all be done at night when the looters are drunk or asleep.

Eric

 

[Gailainne]

Mr Methven

I always find your posts thought provoking in one way or another, your depth off knowledge and skills are amazing.

Your a rare individual, and I hope to meet you some day.

Regards

Stephen

 

[swagman]

Guys do you think were all over reacting ? in the 70s or 80s alot of people were having
newclear shelters built incase of an attack.
Dont get me rong i myself think about this a lot but dont mension it to most people as
they think i may be some kind of survival nut.

Eric do you think it would be safe to go right out into the wilderness as most looters
would stay were there were houses.?

 

[Eric_Methven]

Guys do you think were all over reacting ? in the 70s or 80s alot of people were having
newclear shelters built incase of an attack.
Dont get me rong i myself think about this a lot but dont mension it to most people as
they think i may be some kind of survival nut.

Eric do you think it would be safe to go right out into the wilderness as most looters
would stay were there were houses.?

Yes Swagman, we are over reacting a bit right now, fun isn't it. Mostly we all know where we are coming from on this forum, so provided we keep away from talking about illegal stuff it's just a conversation that stimulates thoughts about possible scenarios where preparedness would be an advantage. I think it's healthy to explore potential emergencies and have a good laugh at how daft we must look to your average sheeple (if sheeple is plural, what's the singular?).

Back to your question. Would it be safe to go right out into the wilderness? Well, there's probably a good reason it is wilderness. I personally would prefer to stay at home and ride out any problems. Other people in other areas may feel the need to leave their homes early on, perhaps because they live in a trailer park and can't secure it, or live in a tenement flat with druggies on the floor below and above. We each would have to decide for ourselves based on individual circumstances.

Be assured however, taking off into the wilderness won't be the easy option. Wilderness living is hard on the body, mind and spirit, especially if you have become softened with all that modern technology has to seduce us.

You may be safer from looters in a wilderness area, but you'll also be far from food, communications and help if things go wrong. It might be the best choice for some, and the worst choice for others. A man on his own might be fine especially if he is used to outdoor life, but give the same man a wife and a couple of little kids and it's a different story, so I can't really say whether it'd be better taking off into the wilderness or staying put.

In my own case, I could manage fine for a good while. If I had to take the wife I'd have added problems and if my daughter and grandkids tagged along, well - it's just not going to happen. Not into the wilderness anyway. There's plenty of secluded rural places I can take them that are still out of the way.

Eric