Responsible behaviour as the world changes.

[Toddy]

Not to be argumentative or anything but would everyone here adhere to the rule?

It’s sometimes easier to blame the people who live in towns or the young, but how many old country men (and women) would still claim to know best?

Good point.

We believe that we are capable, that we are rational, we know what we're doing, we're experienced, and we wouldn't do anything to start a conflagration, a fire getting out of hand......but the reality is that it literally only takes one spark to set it off.

Maybe we need to think hard about some of the things we do, the where, the when, the how, and the why.

Tool making, walking upright, control of fire, and speech...these are the core of humanity, but there are so many of us now, and our world is changing around us.

We make contented comments about company around a fire, we've all enjoyed it, I'd hate for us to lose that, for future generations to lose that.

We'll figure it out, one way or t'other, but in the meantime, I think we get used to paying heed to notices like the one expected in the Cairngorms.

 

[Chris]

If there was a warning in an area due to genuine high fire risk, as in it was dry and the place was a tinderbox then I’d absolutely follow the request of not making a fire. Although really, I wouldn’t be making one anyway if those were the conditions.

If there was just a year round warning like they have in some areas around here, similar to the “We are experiencing high call volumes due to Covid” nonsense excuses well beyond when such a notice was reasonable, I’d ignore them if my own assessment deemed it safe.

Then again, I would never start a fire unless 1) I knew it to be safe and 2) I was certain I could leave no trace of it being there that a human could pick up. The people starting big fires and causing damage are not considering these things, they’ll be the ones just leaving a big scorch mark and a pile of litter regardless of the conditions.

 

[Ystranc]

Not to be argumentative or anything but would everyone here adhere to the rule?

It’s sometimes easier to blame the people who live in towns or the young, but how many old country men (and women) would still claim to know best?

Well I would, it’s no great hardship to use a campstove when there is an increased risk of grass or forest fires from a ground fire. Face it, for most people camping is leisure rather than necessity, no one needs a fire during summer in the UK.
Something that did get to me this summer was the number of farmers who started controlled burns in a reckless way that got out of hand almost immediately in tinder dry scrub. I wasn’t impressed, traditionally controlled burns don’t take place across high summer but some people really are that stupid.

 

[Chris]

Well I would, it’s no great hardship to use a campstove when there is an increased risk of grass or forest fires from a ground fire. Face it, for most people camping is leisure rather than necessity, no one needs a fire during summer in the UK.
Something that did get to me this summer was the number of farmers who started controlled burns in a reckless way that got out of hand almost immediately in tinder dry scrub. I wasn’t impressed, traditionally controlled burns don’t take place across high summer but some people really are that stupid.

A lot of Forestry Commission land (most of it Access Land) around here bans even the use of gas/camping stoves year round. Including in areas with designated Picnic Areas. They don’t ban smoking, though.

Personally I think this is counterproductive, it just gives the impression they’re demanding all sorts of nonsense for no good reason, thus people will ignore it.

 

[slowworm]

Not to be argumentative or anything but would everyone here adhere to the rule?

It does need a fair bit of thought. Recently we've had a few weeks of rain after several months of hot and dry weather. Although we had several inches of rain when I went to plant out some leeks the ground was still dusty dry several inches down - that surprised me. As we don't cut the fields around the house but leave the tall grasses to nature we can also observe how quick they dry, even after months of rain it only takes a few days of dry windy weather, even in winter, for them to become a fire risk.

For me it's not a summer or winter thing, we often get a wet summer month and a very dry winter month for example, and the grass, braken and gorse can become tinder dry.

Having said that, I gather one of the biggest problems down here is disposable BBQs being left. I doubt education will help, I thought there were moves to ban them but it appears not.

 

[Ystranc]

A lot of Forestry Commission land (most of it Access Land) around here bans even the use of gas/camping stoves year round. Including in areas with designated Picnic Areas. They don’t ban smoking, though.

Personally I think this is counterproductive, it just gives the impression they’re demanding all sorts of nonsense for no good reason, thus people will ignore it.

Even though it’s access land and run by the forestry commission it is almost always still privately owned by someone who has the right to say no to fires. There are quite a few plantations near to me with a zero tolerance for fires, BBQs etc. They’re the landowner and it’s important and only fair to respect the restrictions that they put in place. Open access land is just that, the whole Dartmoor discussion exposed the limitations that the countryside and rights of way act places on what is considered open air leisure.

 

[Chris]

Even though it’s access land and run by the forestry commission it is almost always still privately owned by someone who has the right to say no to fires. There are quite a few plantations near to me with a zero tolerance for fires, BBQs etc. They’re the landowner and it’s important and only fair to respect the restrictions that they put in place. Open access land is just that, the whole Dartmoor discussion exposed the limitations that the countryside and rights of way act places on what is considered open air leisure.

Seems silly to ban the use of a gas camping stove at a legally recognised Picnic Area though. Especially silly to ban the use of a camping stove in a designated Picnic Area, but not ban people from smoking cigarettes which inevitably get discarded, still burning, into dry undergrowth.

 

[Ystranc]

Seems silly to ban the use of a gas camping stove at a legally recognised Picnic Area though. Especially silly to ban the use of a camping stove in a designated Picnic Area, but not ban people from smoking cigarettes which inevitably get discarded, still burning, into dry undergrowth.

Very true, the world is often a far sillier place than I would hope but it’s what we’ve got. Best advice I can give anyone is seek permission, if it’s granted great but if not camp somewhere else.

 

[Laurentius]

Incinerators have been banned on our allotments, on the pretext that if a lot of people were using them all at once there would be considerable air pollution. we are still permitted barbecues though.

 

[Billy-o]

In Finland there is a system where a local open fire can be banned if ground is too dry. Been in effect a long time and seems to work surprisingly well.

Same in Canada. Often there are temporary bans. You'll see signs indicating the danger level and status. Mind, we get a lot of fires here. Always have had them, but there are more now and they are more destructive.

(FYI - in 2023, 15 million hectares were destroyed by fires in Canada. That's an area bigger than England, by a fair bit. This year there was a total ban on going into the woods at all in Nova Scotia)

 

[Pupers]

Same in Canada. Often there are temporary bans. You'll see signs indicating the danger level and status. Mind, we get a lot of fires here. Always have had them, but there are more now and they are more destructive.

(FYI - in 2023, 15 million hectares were destroyed by fires in Canada. That's an area bigger than England, by a fair bit. This year there was a total ban on going into the woods at all in Nova Scotia)

Was in Nova Scotia two weeks ago, never noticed much forest….. . Amazing Province!

 

[Herman30]

I would absolutly obey a fire ban. As a matter of fact I am of the oppinion that firemaking is no longer a natural part of bushcrafting/hiking since there is such a plethora of small and effective camping stoves nowadays.

 

[Pattree]

Not a romantic then @Herman30

 

[Herman30]

Not a romantic then @Herman30

Not really, I guess.
I speak of course from the facts in my country, not UK.
We can only make a fire with permission from landowner, everymans right does not include the right to light fires.
No need for permission if it is a built fireplace at an official resting/camping place, unless a forest fire warning is issued.

Official resting/camping place (this is just one model). Chopping down trees is not allowed. If there are no firewood ready or you did not bring your own then you can´t make a fire.

 

[Pattree]

A lot of Forestry Commission land (most of it Access Land) around here bans even the use of gas/camping stoves year round. Including in areas with designated Picnic Areas. They don’t ban smoking, though.

Personally I think this is counterproductive, it just gives the impression they’re demanding all sorts of nonsense for no good reason, thus people will ignore it.

Is this still true?
I don’t use FC land much except for walks.

It sounds like a leftover from its origins. When I worked for the FC it was mainly run by ex-soldiers one of whom included a decorated Regimental Sergeant Major (Royal Marines) who didn’t quite get civilian life.
He certainly banned any form of camping or cooking. He begrudged public access and I think he wanted visitors to keep moving rather than to sit and picnic. One day a year he would lock the gates to paths that weren’t established rights of way.

We were paid overtime at weekends to patrol for fires and tell people to put them out.

This particular forester (at Matlock) held that you couldn’t walk through Derbyshire Quarries stone extraction operation so why should you walk through his timber extraction operation.

@Herman30 Are you saying that even stick stoves are unnecessary? That we should all carry fossil fuels in disposable containers?

 

[TLM]

That we should all carry fossil fuels in disposable containers?

I would be curious where you found fossil ethanol?

 

[Pattree]

As I am an old fossil myself that isn’t particularly difficult!!

OK: liquid and gas fuels purchased, used or transported in disposable single use containers.
Fuels with a considerably higher carbon footprint than the twigs that fire my Kettle. Fuels that are so much less fun. The boring liquid and gas fired items.

That do?

 

[Herman30]

@Herman30 Are you saying that even stick stoves are unnecessary?

You have my permission to use stick stoves.

 

[TLM]

OK: liquid and gas fuels purchased, used or transported in disposable single use containers.
Fuels with a considerably higher carbon footprint than the twigs that fire my Kettle.

Considering that one can easily make ethanol at home from garden apples. Extra fuel consumed 0.

But I must admit that I like have a small campfire when ever possible. It is kind of traditional here. I usually carry and use a Trangia for food and tea and at times a small gas burner with high propane, also usually just gas if only tea is required.

I have never used a twig stove but then I have nothing against one.

 

[lou1661]

Already banned in the New Forest, including any camping stove not used on a designated campsite.

Forestry England Regulations.