Responsible behaviour as the world changes.

[slowworm]

So while the 'plebs' are banned from enjoying a campfire the real cause of wildfires still goes unchecked by the same Scottish Government.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/whats-happening/news/muirburn-legislation

With issues like this it would be useful to read a non biased viewpoint. Down here for example the moors, cliff tops and other areas are burnt by charities for the benefit of nature. I've even had to complain to the managers of a nearby nature reserve due to inappropriate burning.

I can also sympathise with the reluctance for having to apply for a licence. Having been forced to apply for a felling licence and spending a fair bit of time and money on the application and chasing only for me to wait for years for any outcome I think many of these government agencies are not fit for purpose.

My main question though is about the increased risk of devastating fires caused by the lack of controlled burning. I.e. you hear now that some of the big wild fires are being blamed on the amount of material built up over the years as the land use has changed and the scrub hasn't been cut back or burnt off more regularly.

 

[Toddy]

Fire is a natural part of the cycle of life. Here, where the heather grows too large, it burns fierce and kills the plant. Burnt regularly it burns quickly and then regenerates.

That that regeneration is encouraged by the estates because grouse eat the young shoots doesn't take away that reality. It also feeds the deer, the hares, etc., too.

We live in an entirely man altered bit of the world. Those barren hillsides were not always uninhabited. They were part of the seasonal round of transhumance. They were actively used landscapes. People didn't always make 'fields' to grow crops. A choice warm, sunny patch makes a decent area for lazy (anything but, they're hard work to establish) beds, and multiples thereof will provide as well as any field. No need for a horse and plough, the old cas-chrom worked fine.

We're inclined to believe that somehow 'The Countryside' is where everyone only goes to play and is otherwise empty. The reality is that people live there, used to live there in much greater numbers.
To be someplace just for a walk was not seen with the same opprobium as it appears to be further south. It was an accepted part of things. The right of responsible access just enshrined that in law.

Lighting a fire, just because we can ? one has to consider whether that's always wise.

Time and place, and season, and reason.

 

[Woody girl]

I don't know if anyone remembers the post I put up about the fence replacement around our local school. This pathway is used by everyone walking into the town or to school, doctors dentists dog walkers. In the last two weeks we have had two fires along that path, probably by people dropping still burning cigarettes.
Luckily, both were put out before too much damage was done.
There are bone dry dead leaves everywhere as the trees are dropping them early, and they are just swept to the side of the path by a chap with a leaf blower, instead of being removed.
This path is very close to my home, and if it got away before anyone discoverd it, many houses would be in danger.

 

[GreyCat]

I don't know if anyone remembers the post I put up about the fence replacement around our local school. This pathway is used by everyone walking into the town or to school, doctors dentists dog walkers. In the last two weeks we have had two fires along that path, probably by people dropping still burning cigarettes.
Luckily, both were put out before too much damage was done.
There are bone dry dead leaves everywhere as the trees are dropping them early, and they are just swept to the side of the path by a chap with a leaf blower, instead of being removed.
This path is very close to my home, and if it got away before anyone discoverd it, many houses would be in danger.

Unfortunately, we seem to have a destructive steak in society. People who burn down old trees for the "fun" of it or even worse for social media clicks (I saw a news article about this but cannot remember where). The hillside fires in south Wales are typically started deliberately.

Many people just don't care- they walk along looking at the phone and disconnected from the world around them and not caring about anyone else. Same mentality in those who visit the countryside, have a drunken party and leave their vast quantities of litter and feces for others to clean up. Just don't care- there's no consequences. I am not sure it's a tiny minority any more either.

GC

 

[Falstaff]

Those two headline articles you mentioned are junk and completely inaccurate/untrue. The Govt has unequivocally stated that wood stoves are not going to be banned. The claimed UCL research project has been roundly criticised and rejected.

From another website (Trek-Lite.com) I recently picked up that in the Peak District, all camping stoves of all types are now banned and fines applicable. Appears to be very recent.

Not only that, but the legislation is not a temporary measure, and continues to apply for several years. Apparently Councils can issue temporary periodic suspensions of this, if they choose.
Some question about how that can/will be enforced. The Wardens currently do not have such powers, only the police. Possibly there is some idea that Councils will legally empower some officers as they do for the Litter wardens and Parking Wardens.

 

[Falstaff]

Ah whoops , More accurately, its the Derbyshire Dales.

https://www.derbyshiredales.gov.uk/documents/2026-2029-prohibition-of-open-fires-and-bbqs-on-moorland/viewdocument/3632

From February 2026 until February 2029

It includes car parks, but maybe that's sensible seeing as the New Forest is presently on fire due to a car fire on the road. (per BBC Radio 4 News)

Cold soak cuisine anyone? Or flameless ration heaters.......

 

[GreyCat]

The muppets with their builder's bonfire on the other side of the valley had a visit from Sam Tan* today. Takes a special kind of stupid to have a bonfire at the moment.

They fired one bonfire at 01:15 or so this morning, then another those afternoon. Neighbour called Sam Tan out as they remembered the whole side of the hill going up in flames a few years ago when someone else was similarly stupid. I had a photo I took upstairs so could explain where they needed to go. An hour later it was out, just hope they drenched it to avoid relighting overnight.

*Sam Tan is the local term for the fire brigade, from the children's series Fireman Sam which was originally written in the Welsh language.

GC

 

[Toddy]

Those two headline articles you mentioned are junk and completely inaccurate/untrue. The Govt has unequivocally stated that wood stoves are not going to be banned. The claimed UCL research project has been roundly criticised and rejected.

From another website (Trek-Lite.com) I recently picked up that in the Peak District, all camping stoves of all types are now banned and fines applicable. Appears to be very recent.

Not only that, but the legislation is not a temporary measure, and continues to apply for several years. Apparently Councils can issue temporary periodic suspensions of this, if they choose.
Some question about how that can/will be enforced. The Wardens currently do not have such powers, only the police. Possibly there is some idea that Councils will legally empower some officers as they do for the Litter wardens and Parking Wardens.

Air quality: key behaviours report

This report was commissioned to identify key public behaviours that have the most impact on improving air quality, and to support future public engagement work. This Scottish Government report focuses on the actions households and the general public can take to support improving outdoor air quality.

www.gov.scot

Can My Neighbour Complain About My Wood Burner? - Exodraft

Worried about neighbour complaints over your wood burner? Learn what the law says, what causes issues, and how to burn smoke-free and responsibly.

exodraft.co.uk

I think woodburners, certainly in suburbia, are on a hiding to nothing. If the stated intent to ban all new builds having gas boilers has validity, do you think they'll excuse the wood burners ?

 

[Pattree]

Non of the new build around here have chimneys. Not sure how you’d fit a log burner even if there were enough logs to go round.

 

[Broch]

It is interesting to note that you can also make a complaint about your neighbour's oil boiler or gas boiler emissions if they cause a nuisance. Any 'burning' device produces smell and waste gases, if they are not dealt with properly and exhausted away from people they are not good for health.

The new regulations for wood burners has resulted in an order of magnitude reduction in particulate emissions IF the fuel is sourced responsibly. Unfortunately, it's too easy to by 'bad' fuel.

There is also the gas/methane conundrum. Badly burnt and escaped gas releases methane into the atmosphere which over 20 years has 80 times more warming effect than CO2 - so old, badly serviced, gas boilers are just as bad as old and badly serviced other appliances.

 

[Broch]

Non of the new build around here have chimneys. Not sure how you’d fit a log burner even if there were enough logs to go round.

External flues are relatively cheap to install.

And.... woodland is being planted with the sole purpose of providing a product and one of those products is fuel.

 

[Toddy]

Non of the new build around here have chimneys. Not sure how you’d fit a log burner even if there were enough logs to go round.

There's a whole industry that works out how to get a flue out of a wall or roof and vent safely.
I live in a gable end (block of three) house, we are at times bombarded with people trying to get us to agree to a flue out and up the gable wall to fit a 'real fire'.

I feel a tad hypocritical, I admit that I love fire, that I take great delight in knowing I can make fire, simply by friction, let alone by flint and steel, but I'm not stupid about it.

I grew up with a fire that needed tended and cleaned every single day in life (no fire = no hot water).
I miss the fire, I don't miss the work, or the dirt, or the polluted air.

Time and place. I firmly suspect that suburbia isn't ideal, while those who live more remotely actually need them.

 

[nigelp]

Ah whoops , More accurately, its the Derbyshire Dales.

https://www.derbyshiredales.gov.uk/documents/2026-2029-prohibition-of-open-fires-and-bbqs-on-moorland/viewdocument/3632

From February 2026 until February 2029

It includes car parks, but maybe that's sensible seeing as the New Forest is presently on fire due to a car fire on the road. (per BBC Radio 4 News)

Cold soak cuisine anyone? Or flameless ration heaters.......

New Forest has had a public spaces protection order in place for a number of years banning use of anything used, or placed on the ground and likely to cause a fire. I don’t allow stoves to heat water on my outdoor courses regardless of location.

 

[TLM]

New Forest has had a public spaces protection order in place for a number of years banning use of anything used, or placed on the ground and likely to cause a fire.

Is smoking allowed?

 

[nigelp]

Is smoking allowed?

Not sure. Only if you don’t drop or place the lighter/match and cigarette end, I can’t see how they can. To be fair they rarely if ever fine anyway. It is more to discourage folk from using disposable Barbecue.

Since the massive fire that started on the main road is being dealt with there has been two campfires and barbecue put out. People are idiots.

 

[TLM]

Since the massive fire that started on the main road is being dealt with there has been two campfires and barbecue put out. People are idiots.

While safe fires can be had in many places it requires some thought and depending a bit luck also, sparks do fly. So I very much agree that prohibiting fires outright is best. A gas burner is pretty safe though.

 

[nigelp]

Currently after no rain for 90 days and the ground being composed of tinder dry peat no fires can be had.

Gas stove is ok on gravel paths and the like. I use a trangia with a gas adapter currently when backpacking etc but not in the countryside at the moment.

 

[Broch]

I think we have to make sure we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. We always cooked on arid country treks but with a great deal of care.

The major risk of using a gas appliance in these conditions is that numpties see us doing it and think they can cook with their stove which may be liquid fuelled or a wood burner. Gas does not produce sparks, or spill on the ground, or fail to completely extinguish when we've finished. The very worse that could happen is that it falls over and lights the grass next to it - but you cleared the area your cooking in didn't you?

But, I agree, so that we don't look like we're saying 'do as I say, not as I do' it's better not to cook at all in these conditions.

 

[Pattree]

Anyone used a solar cooker?

I saw them in Ethiopia. Cardboard boxes lined with foil at the top and painted black on the inside. Not quick but a long lunch is a good idea in the mid day heat.

There are lots of YouTubes but I saw simple vertical boxes, black on the inside reflective on the flaps. They didn’t use fresnel lenses or mirrors just more cooking foil on the flaps. A clear lid (old oven door) was a big upgrade.

 

[Falstaff]

Beeswax melts at 60deg C - I made a solar beeswax melter in a large plastic flower pot with a bit of plate glass over the top, cooking foil and polystyrene insulation. Worked ok on sunny days , took time. I was using it to melt the wax out of hive comb. Got impatient and boiled it out of the comb..

Local Peak District MP on Radio 4 today, waffling weakly on,
would like a national ban on portable barbecues everywhere except in peoples own back gardens. Didn't like devolution to councils, and them making their own local decisions "too hard to communicate different local restrictions". "too expensive" "visitors won't know the rules" (Presumably assumes they are all illiterate and unable read big inexpensive signboards then.)
Must be nice thinking everyone has a back garden... Clearly was not aware of the extent of the restrictions in his own area includes all stoves, and appeared to think folk only came out for one day then went back home at night,, to their pied-a-terre garden presumably.