Responsible behaviour as the world changes.

[Toddy]

Campfires to be banned for part of year in Cairngorms National Park

A seasonal fire management byelaw will come into force in 2026 to tackle the growing risk of wildfires.

news.stv.tv

Having seen the news filled with so many wildfires this Summer, I can well understand just why this has been considered necessary. I'm pretty sure it won't just be in the Cairngorms though.

I was so delighted when Alan Torrance taught me to make fire by friction all those years ago. I still smile at the joy I felt.
It still pleases me greatly that I can do that, that I have taught others, that I've found other ways and learned to make them work reliably, even in difficult conditions, too.
There comes a time though, that just because I can, doesn't also mean that I should.

Time and place, especially as things change and the land becomes even more vulnerable.

The world's changing around us.

M

 

[ijohnson]

Just like the camping bans in the Trossachs this is another ban that will only affect the responsible people who are not the issue, but do next to nothing to stop those ignorant and irresponsible folk who take no care.

I firmly believe that the Scottish Executive/Government missed a trick when they brought in the Land Reform Act in 2003. They should have instituted a curriculum to be taught in all schools, at age appropriate levels for all years, teaching kids that with rights come responsibilities and how to respect the land they now have access to. If they had done that then every person educated in Scotland under the age of 37 would have some idea what is acceptable behaviour and what is not.

 

[Pattree]

I’m not sure that I understand this one Toddy. This is sufficiently unusual that I feel I may have misread your post.

I totally agree that we should not put the countryside at risk of wild fires and a totally agree that the risk has increased.

But

It has INCREASED, it hasn’t suddenly become so.
I have always avoided firing up the Kettle near a ripe crop and particularly when I am camped near dry bracken. This isn’t a new thing. Indeed there may be more occasions where I choose not to light a fire than there were ten years ago.

Are you asking me to be more vigilant than previously? For sure, I’ll happily take that advice.

Are you asking me to abandon camp cooking with fire? Surely not.
Neither can I see you suggesting that we abandon one particular way of making fire.

I’ve read your post a few times, sorry if I’m being thick.

 

[Chris]

Banning open fires when the weather/environment is dry and there's a high fire risk seems fairly reasonable. Hopefully it stops at that. It will be over my dead body that I have some chump in a suit in London tell me that I am not allowed to make a small and controlled fire in the outdoors when/where I know it to be safe, outside of obvious high fire-risk areas.

Although of course I am sure some will decide that all areas are 'high fire-risk' at all times, because that seems to be the world we live in.

 

[Toddy]

Just like the camping bans in the Trossachs this is another ban that will only affect the responsible people who are not the issue, but do next to nothing to stop those ignorant and irresponsible folk who take no care.

I firmly believe that the Scottish Executive/Government missed a trick when they brought in the Land Reform Act in 2003. They should have instituted a curriculum to be taught in all schools, at age appropriate levels for all years, teaching kids that with rights come responsibilities and how to respect the land they now have access to. If they had done that then every person educated in Scotland under the age of 37 would have some idea what is acceptable behaviour and what is not.

They did.

Every school in the land was given not just box loads of really good books, booklets, activity packs, etc., but there were teams of demonstrators, who were paid to go round and actually engage with both children and adults. I worked for four different councils who ran parks days, big displays set up, lots of interest. Worked with five different Ranger services too.

The thing is, where do you draw the line ?

Where do you say well if some abuse then none can have ?

That's, I think, the very worst option.

There will always be the selfish, the self centred, the overly entitled, who will never care for anything but their own gratification.

That ought not stop letting everyone else access the natural world.

 

[Toddy]

I’m not sure that I understand this one Toddy. This is sufficiently unusual that I feel I may have misread your post.

I totally agree that we should not put the countryside at risk of wild fires and a totally agree that the risk has increased.

But

It has INCREASED, it hasn’t suddenly become so.
I have always avoided firing up the Kettle near a ripe crop and particularly when I am camped near dry bracken. This isn’t a new thing. Indeed there may be more occasions where I choose not to light a fire than there were ten years ago.

Are you asking me to be more vigilant than previously? For sure, I’ll happily take that advice.

Are you asking me to abandon camp cooking with fire? Surely not.
Neither can I see you suggesting that we abandon one particular way of making fire.

I’ve read your post a few times, sorry if I’m being thick.

No, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

We tried so hard to drum in that with rights comes responsibility, and honestly, I think this is a responsible response....especially in that area, in a tourist area, where the locals know the potential issues, but if there is a clear "NO FIRES" ban, through a clear season, then everyone ought to adhere, and perhaps just as importantly, see why.

 

[TLM]

In Finland there is a system where a local open fire can be banned if ground is too dry. Been in effect a long time and seems to work surprisingly well.

 

[Toddy]

In Finland there is a system where a local open fire can be banned if ground is too dry. Been in effect a long time and seems to work surprisingly well.

I think that's the best answer. It has to be reactive, it has to be when necessary, it has to be an appropriate response, at the time, and people need to learn to heed it, to actively engage with the system and the environment and area.
Like hosepipe bans, they're not permanent, but they're necessary at certain times.

 

[Chris]

I think that's the best answer. It has to be reactive, it has to be when necessary, it has to be an appropriate response, at the time, and people need to learn to heed it, to actively engage with the system and the environment and area.
Like hosepipe bans, they're not permanent, but they're necessary at certain times.

Fully agree. Legislation is often lazy and fails to reflect any nuance.

Of course, the sensible among us will already be mindful of things like prolonged dry weather and fire risks based on the state of the ground at the time, so it'll be interesting to see what impact this has on dangerous fires. Will those who are already too selfish/ignorant to consider these things pay heed to warnings of any kind?

 

[Toddy]

Lot of phones and photies about nowadays.....easy to report, record vehicles, etc.,
Maybe a few, 'This is your fault, and you will recompense for the damage', cases ?

 

[ijohnson]

They did.

Every school in the land was given not just box loads of really good books, booklets, activity packs, etc., but there were teams of demonstrators, who were paid to go round and actually engage with both children and adults. I worked for four different councils who ran parks days, big displays set up, lots of interest. Worked with five different Ranger services too.

While there may have been some activities, in some places that tried to educate, to the best of my knowledge it did not become part of the curriculum and was not rolled out to every school in Scotland and every year group.
Certainly my son is currently in the Scottish school system and has had no education on this matter.

I mean no disrespect to your efforts Toddy, and the efforts of the various council ranger services and other voluntary orgs that have tried to educate people, but making it a compulsory part of the curriculum is a different animal.

 

[Toddy]

I worked from Inverness right down through the central belt. I know of others who worked through in Fife, and the Borders. Others who worked in Argyll.

There is only so much that can be done. The information was widely dispersed, it was nationwide, and it was good, it was clear, it was rich in detail and there was a lot of good nature behind it, a lot of positive promotion.

It's still available, still kept up to date....

NatureScot

Connecting People and Nature in Scotland

www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot

and free downloads

Resources to promote responsible access

Downloadable images to help promote safe and responsible enjoyment of our outdoors.

www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot

Thing is though, too many folks look with their eyes shut when they don't want to read something that stops them doing just what they want, when they want.
Unfortunately that often comes back to bite everybody.

At the end of the day, it's our country, our world, and it's up to us to be responsible....and somehow mitigate the damage caused by the numpties.

 

[Glow_worm]

I also think it's a bit daft ignoring the weather- easier to legislate but there will be plenty of years where prolonged wet springs or summers massively reduce wildfire risk. The predictions of ever increasing heat and drought might not be right.

 

[Pattree]

Now, I think of myself as a winter camper. Summer camps with friends and grandchildren not withstanding, this is when I camp solo.

In my earlier days Spring was the real fire danger period. I used to earn time and a half over weekend sitting up in the fire watch tower up on Primrose Hill in Delamere forest between late February and Easter.

As temperatures rise we are likely to see shorter bursts of heavier rain over winter and more periods of dry/drought.

We winter campers are going to have to be careful but, as it always has been, this will be in a camp by camp assessment.

I shall always have my battered old M40 meths stove along with the Kettle just case.

 

[Ystranc]

It’s part of Allemansrätten in Sweden that the municipality can ban access to an area or camp fires within an area on the grounds of wildlife protection or fire prevention, it is accepted as the responsible thing to do and the people visiting an area accept it almost without question.

 

[oldtimer]

In the south of France this summer we had the worst wildfire for 75 years. It destroyed an area the size of Paris. Wildfires are a regular occurrence unfortunately and dry conditions in summer result in bans of open fires and closure of wilderness areas. Despite national media campaigns, wildfires still occur. Some are started deliberately but the majority are caused by cigarette ends thrown from cars.

Sadly, it seems that irresponsibility and stupidity is something we have to live with- or die from

 

[GreyCat]

While there may have been some activities, in some places that tried to educate, to the best of my knowledge it did not become part of the curriculum and was not rolled out to every school in Scotland and every year group.
Certainly my son is currently in the Scottish school system and has had no education on this matter.

I mean no disrespect to your efforts Toddy, and the efforts of the various council ranger services and other voluntary orgs that have tried to educate people, but making it a compulsory part of the curriculum is a different animal.

Unfortunately, we see to live in an era of folks knowing their "rights" and being determined to exercise them- without any acceptance or perhaps even comprehension of the accompanying responsibilities, not giving a fig about anyone but themselves. They are just having "fun"/taking a selfie/posting on <insert social media of your choice here>......

Nor are they held to account. But then as a society we have had a couple of decades of focus on rights without responsibility or of accountability for actions- and on being somehow a "victim" if caught vandalising/being antisocial/shoplifting/playing loud "music" on a train/leaving litter or even a tend and chairs behind ..... etc. This has left its mark, and COVID didn't help as a lot of folks seemed to go a bit feral after that.

Need both education and enforcement, carrot AND stick, to change behaviour.

GC

 

[Chris]

Unfortunately, we see to live in an era of folks knowing their "rights" and being determined to exercise them- without any acceptance or perhaps even comprehension of the accompanying responsibilities, not giving a fig about anyone but themselves. They are just having "fun"/taking a selfie/posting on <insert social media of your choice here>......

Nor are they held to account. But then as a society we have had a couple of decades of focus on rights without responsibility or of accountability for actions- and on being somehow a "victim" if caught vandalising/being antisocial/shoplifting/playing loud "music" on a train/leaving litter or even a tend and chairs behind ..... etc. This has left its mark, and COVID didn't help as a lot of folks seemed to go a bit feral after that.

Need both education and enforcement, carrot AND stick, to change behaviour.

GC

I think part of it is that with the age of the internet, the society people live in is often no longer local, so the social consequences of ruining your local area are no longer such a deterrent.

30 years ago if you covered the place in litter and acted like a lout, you'd be ostracised from your social circles and likely admonished by people whose opinions hold value to you. Nowadays, your social circle is spread far and wide and you can connect up with all the other reprobates with similarly selfish views, giving you the false belief that you're in the majority in acting the way you do. The consequences of annoying people locally through selfish behaviour holds much less impact than it used to.

 

[Ystranc]

Unfortunately, we see to live in an era of folks knowing their "rights" and being determined to exercise them- without any acceptance or perhaps even comprehension of the accompanying responsibilities, not giving a fig about anyone but themselves. They are just having "fun"/taking a selfie/posting on <insert social media of your choice here>......

Nor are they held to account. But then as a society we have had a couple of decades of focus on rights without responsibility or of accountability for actions- and on being somehow a "victim" if caught vandalising/being antisocial/shoplifting/playing loud "music" on a train/leaving litter or even a tend and chairs behind ..... etc. This has left its mark, and COVID didn't help as a lot of folks seemed to go a bit feral after that.

Need both education and enforcement, carrot AND stick, to change behaviour.

GC

Nailed it.

 

[Wildgoose]

Not to be argumentative or anything but would everyone here adhere to the rule?

It’s sometimes easier to blame the people who live in towns or the young, but how many old country men (and women) would still claim to know best?