The stark Truth about Birch-tapping.

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bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
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If the Birch forest had any sign of Birch polypore then the chances are they will die off anyway.

Sorry dude, the birch polypore is present in each and every birch tree. When people say that is only grows on dead or dying birches they are no doubt good intentioned but factually wrong. It would be true to say that it is only seen on dead or dying birches and is a very good indicator of a trees demise if it is seen flowering but to suggest that seeing a few of them in a birch forest means all the birches will die or that seeing a birch forest without any means it isn't there just isn't true as it's always there :)
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
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There is a natural healing mechanism for lost branches, sealing off a branch doesn't affect the main transport system of the tree.

Trees don't "heal". Animals heal.....Animals (including us humans) are able to regenerate, as cells die so new ones are made to take their place. Trees are generators, they cannot regenerate but only generate so they have developed a system we now call "CODIT", which stands for Compartmentalization Of Decay In Trees. This term was coined by the late Dr Alex Shigo, an eminent tree pathologist, who is widely accepted as the father of modern arborculture.
Basically, the tree changes the chemical formation of cells around the wound to create a barrier zone to slow down the rate of decay and/or infection, if I remember correctly it cannot stop it but can slow it right down, even containing it to the end of the trees life (which could be considerably shorter than its natural life if it gets felled of course), hence wounds that look like they have been contained in felled timber would in fact be still active albeit slowed right down by the trees barrier system. When a tree is felled and therefore dead, the rate of decay would increase.
In a living tree as it starts to create its barriers around the wound the tree also starts to "generate" more cells and grows new bark and wood cells around the outside of the wound to seal it from anymore environmental factors, fungi, insect pest, water ingress etc so we see what looks like the tree "healing", it isn't....it's "Sealing" and compartmentalising the wound.

Each and every time a tree is damaged the wound stays it doesn't heal, it can't heal. Now, trees have got pretty good at CODIT and can survive many wounds but just as with most things, if you get wounded enough or in a big enough way....you will die and so will trees.
The other factor to bear in mind is that trees store their energy in their living cells, each time a tree is wounded and has to adopt its CODIT defence it is losing storage space. It cannot store energy in the dead decaying cells or the chemically changed barrier cells so it has less cells to use for storage. If it sustains too many wounds and therefore does not have enough energy stored up in itself then it would be particularly susceptible to external environmental attack in whatever form.

So don't feel too bad for wounding trees that will never heal, we've all done it and some of us do it for a living but lets try and do it as best as we can for the tree.

I very much recommend the works of Dr Shigo to anybody that has an interest in trees, it's really very interesting stuff and I find his writing so easy to follow. :)
Hope the above makes sence.....clearly I'm not tree pathologist lol :)
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
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mountainm

Bushcrafter through and through
Jan 12, 2011
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Selby
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Sorry dude, the birch polypore is present in each and every birch tree. When people say that is only grows on dead or dying birches they are no doubt good intentioned but factually wrong. It would be true to say that it is only seen on dead or dying birches and is a very good indicator of a trees demise if it is seen flowering but to suggest that seeing a few of them in a birch forest means all the birches will die or that seeing a birch forest without any means it isn't there just isn't true as it's always there :)

Ok. That's not what I was told by the woodlands trust. I was told that once Birch polypore finds its way into a Birch population and establishes a foothold it limits the life of any Birch tree in that forest to 50 or 60 odd years maximum. Waiting to exploit a weakness in the trees natural defences.
 

woodspirits

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 24, 2009
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West Midlands UK
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I must admit I've never understood the need for such a large bore size. I wonder if it will be the same result for smaller diameter drills though.

Good thread J. Well done at long term logging. Always good to get real facts.

my thoughts too, i suspect any wound that results in a permanent hole will have the same effect. like Jonathan i have used minimal intrusion, a metal tent peg just under the bark, worked well and only once, just to know that i could.

 

xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Ok. That's not what I was told by the woodlands trust. I was told that once Birch polypore finds its way into a Birch population and establishes a foothold it limits the life of any Birch tree in that forest to 50 or 60 odd years maximum. Waiting to exploit a weakness in the trees natural defences.

That's sounds about right. Hence why some areas the fruit bodies can be absent. The tree contains the fungus until it has another stress. It is astonding how birch can remain upright when the insides are nothing but brown rot. I can't be only one that has done the delboy at the bar where you lean on one and it goes taking me with it. Death promotes more species diversity. Bam is right that they are early colonators.
 

Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
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SE Wales
I leant on one a couple of weeks ago and went over like a skittle in front of seven youngsters between six and eleven yrs. old as I was giving them the preparatory talk before showing them some fire skills; very undignified, and the high point of their day! :)
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
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Lol....have seen fellow Sharfters hook up hammocks to suspect birches several times in the past....um'd and ah'd about warning them but being a non intrusive sort of chap have left them too it....while of course keeping an eye out too so I don't miss the entertainment when they first get in :) :) :)
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
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49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
Ok. That's not what I was told by the woodlands trust. I was told that once Birch polypore finds its way into a Birch population and establishes a foothold it limits the life of any Birch tree in that forest to 50 or 60 odd years maximum. Waiting to exploit a weakness in the trees natural defences.

Just not possible....we have everything from tiny saplings to mature 100+ odd year old trees growing in the birch and pine forests here with birch polypores showing fruit on some but certainly not all... So how does the woodland trust explain this?

I have to ask.....where you told this by the "Woodland Trust".....or by somebody who happened to work for them? Just because somebody who is employed by them said it....doesn't mean it must be true ;)

I totally agree with the last sentence you made above though....this is what they do.....but they are already there :)
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,989
4,637
S. Lanarkshire
Soooo, the gist of all this is.

Trees don't heal, they seal.
Birch trees are prone to rot anyway; pioneer species that seeds prolifically, especially in our warm (ish) and damp climate. They aren't a climax species but nonetheless are a valuable part of the ecosystem.

Basically, don't bore for sap unless you're aware that you are in effect inflicting a mortal wound.
It might take several years to die, but the drilling appears to be enough of end the tree's life.
"Each and every time a tree is damaged the wound stays it doesn't heal, it can't heal. Now, trees have got pretty good at CODIT and can survive many wounds but just as with most things, if you get wounded enough or in a big enough way....you will die and so will trees." quote, bambodoggy


Comments ?

Many thanks to everyone who has added to the thread :D Interesting input; and I think there's a lot that we need to take on board from it.

cheers,
Toddy
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,481
Stourton,UK
Well I for one will never use the method again. I'm going to check on the trees I tapped in the traditional way from earlier years later this afternoon.

After removing the plugs from those dead trees and looking at them, all they seem to have done is hold that rotting slime within the tree as the sap has continued to ooze every year. The ones that were sealed with tar and wax have no trace of the tar/wax anywhere, so it doesn't last.






On the plus side, if you need to create more dead standing trees to attract wildlife. It's a pretty sound method.
 
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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,989
4,637
S. Lanarkshire
Ehm, had another thought about this....what did you use as the plug ? The commercial tappers seem to go to a lot of effort to bleach everything.
I know we just pushed in a tight fitting plug of wood (I think it was pine, HWMBLT used one of the hole cutter things on the electric drill and cut a few sizes out of a scrap end of 2x4 )....and I still haven't gotten out to look at ours, it's pouring again :rolleyes: and the trees are smothered in ivy and holly.

atb,
M
 

JonathanD

Ophiological Genius
Sep 3, 2004
12,809
1,481
Stourton,UK
I've used birch as the plug, but after I talked about bacterial infection with someone on here, I used dried birch and sterilsed them. After I saw them leaking over the years, even with hot tar on them - at someones suggestion, I used sterilsed champagne corks topped with tar. These oddly enough seem to be the most successful of all the plugs, but like the wood pugs, they haven't rotted from the outside in, but from the inside out.
 

mountainm

Bushcrafter through and through
Jan 12, 2011
9,990
12
Selby
www.mikemountain.co.uk
Just not possible....we have everything from tiny saplings to mature 100+ odd year old trees growing in the birch and pine forests here with birch polypores showing fruit on some but certainly not all... So how does the woodland trust explain this?

I have to ask.....where you told this by the "Woodland Trust".....or by somebody who happened to work for them? Just because somebody who is employed by them said it....doesn't mean it must be true ;)

I totally agree with the last sentence you made above though....this is what they do.....but they are already there :)

I think we're talking cross purposes. I never said just because you can't see it it isn't there - and you have agreed with my last point which was in fact my original and only point.
 

Trencakey

Nomad
Dec 25, 2012
269
11
Cornwall
I've only ever tapped one Birch tree and that was just to see if I could.When I finished I plugged the hole with wood from the same tree and covered it with clay.That was 10 years ago and it's doing fine.I wonder if the clay stopped bacteria entering ?
 

Trencakey

Nomad
Dec 25, 2012
269
11
Cornwall
No admittedly it was a woodlore type knife.I went in pretty deep though,the hole diameter would have been at least one inch.
 

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