Primitive Living

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Llwyd

Forager
Jan 6, 2013
243
2
Eastern Canada
Were I building a roundhouse I would put it on a concrete slab, spray-foam insulation the whole thing, stick a high efficiency wood stove in the middle and cap it off with cedar shingles for a roof. An air tight door and a skylight would be nice too.
 

THOaken

Native
Jan 21, 2013
1,299
1
30
England(Scottish Native)
Were I building a roundhouse I would put it on a concrete slab, spray-foam insulation the whole thing, stick a high efficiency wood stove in the middle and cap it off with cedar shingles for a roof. An air tight door and a skylight would be nice too.
Yes, that would be nice, but is that in any way an accurate representation of an Iron-Age roundhouse?
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Has anybody actually stayed in a roundhouse? I have and it is amazing how comfy it gets with just a small fire. We just do not understand how acclimatised people can get to no central heating. At times when growing up there would be a sheet of ice on one of my bedroom walls but I slept soundly enough.

Then we do not use fire as the ancients did. Some Danish Neolithic logboats have one or two hearths. Double fires were used on land, sit between them. Jacqui Wood the expert in prehistoric cooking also speculates that some small mounds of burnt stones were mini-hearths on which an instant warming fire of furze twigs could be lit in order to warm up in the morning or when working in the fields.
 

Llwyd

Forager
Jan 6, 2013
243
2
Eastern Canada
Yes, that would be nice, but is that in any way an accurate representation of an Iron-Age roundhouse?

No but I already know what it is like to freeze in an uninsulated cabin for 6 months and I don't like it much. At 40 years old I would likely be dead by now in the iron age.

My viking age beer hall will be well insulated and the authenticity police sacrificed to my heathen gods by the men. This way I can be sure of perhaps 20 more good years.
 

rg598

Native
Has anybody actually stayed in a roundhouse? I have and it is amazing how comfy it gets with just a small fire. We just do not understand how acclimatised people can get to no central heating. At times when growing up there would be a sheet of ice on one of my bedroom walls but I slept soundly enough.

Fair enough. I have only spent time in a wood stove heated house and I have done it outside, but never in an actual round house. Where was it located? What were the temperatures during the time you were there? What were the temperatures inside? You mentioned ice on the walls, so presumably it wasn't that warm inside. What did you use for insulation when you slept? I sleep comfortably in the woods, without a fire at all, but I use a sleeping bag. What type of wood did you burn? How much wood per day did you use during summer; during winter? For our rectangular house, we had a whole shed full of wood, and that was just for the warm seasons for cooking and heating in the mornings. Thanks for the first hand info.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Ice was on the walls of our ordinary house. I am only really talking about our wet temperate climate. Of course, the Eskimo used only a blubber lamp and slept naked in the furs on their snow shelf bed in igloos, see Nanook of The North a film by Robert J. Flaherty and for a miserable turf fire as the only heating in our sort of climate see his film Man of Arran. If you want an example of a roundhouse in winter see the much mentioned Living in the Past where they lived comfortably through one of the worst winters of the twentieth century.

Peat fires can be fabulous. On a visit on a cold day, one on the ground floor of Smailholme Pele Tower heated the whole place comfortably. There was even a fireplace on the roof for the watchman, unlit as no border reivers were expected.
 

rg598

Native
Ice was on the walls of our ordinary house. I am only really talking about our wet temperate climate. Of course, the Eskimo used only a blubber lamp and slept naked in the furs on their snow shelf bed in igloos, see Nanook of The North a film by Robert J. Flaherty and for a miserable turf fire as the only heating in our sort of climate see his film Man of Arran. If you want an example of a roundhouse in winter see the much mentioned Living in the Past where they lived comfortably through one of the worst winters of the twentieth century.

Peat fires can be fabulous. On a visit on a cold day, one on the ground floor of Smailholme Pele Tower heated the whole place comfortably. There was even a fireplace on the roof for the watchman, unlit as no border reivers were expected.

How much peat/wood did you burn per day when you were living in a round house? What season was it? I don't thin anyone doubts that a house can be heated with a fire. I think the issue is how much fuel would be needed, and how much work collecting that fuel would require. When I use brush wood the fire has to be fed constantly. I end up going through a lot of brush wood. When you were heating the round house with it, how far did you have to go to collect it. I imagine it ran out quickly in the immediate area around the house.
 
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boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
No prolonged stay, no stats on wood volume used but imagine a campfire of small to moderate proportions and how much wood that uses in a day then do the sums.

Sustainable medieval and later villages survived for hundreds of years on the smallwood provided by their local woods with some coppicing. Round wood was preserved.

One point on roundhouse fires is that there is no chimney, the smoke percolates through the thatch. The woodstoves or open fires in houses simply eat wood because of the forced draft. 10% effieciency is a figure I have seen but am willing to be corrected.
 

milius2

Maker
Jun 8, 2009
989
7
Lithuania
THOaken, just a thought... where you going to get women to have kids with > ?
I'm not being funny here at all. I've seen a some people going back to nature, some of them in a form of racking a shelter from straw and mud and spending there long periods of time. But there is always a lack of women in these examples and for me it says one thing: if you can't provide a life for a women and grow kids, that is no kind of life... only a project. You should check with a females what they think of your project and work in this field too. They would give you a lot of ideas, as my missus give to me on our little "back to nature project".
 

TallMikeM

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 30, 2005
574
0
54
Hatherleigh, Devon
THOaken, don't worry about what some people on here say. Sadly the internet is full of pointscorers and naysayers, this forum though seems to have more that it's fair share. You're project looks interesting, hope it goes well for you.
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
I kept mine going all through winter no probs. Was hard work but free heat is free heat:p

You get what you put in i suppose.:)

Great stuff, but the vast majority of people can't get free wood, then its not a great option. We lit ours last night and watched a film or two, very cozy it was :) It was out this morning of course. I fine wood burners labour intensive to be honest.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Wood burners are an industrial answer to the problem of modern people who require 21 degrees C or so. They do need feeding vast quantities of wood and send a lot of heat out into the atmosphere.

A central fire with no chimney projects heat out all round for a start. The roof and walls of a roundhouse are very well insulated and the main problem might well be feeling too hot rather than too cold. Of course it can be chilly getting up in the morning but it always was until central heating came in. Unless they burned peat I do no believe the myth that prehistoric people kept a fire going all the time. Reports of tribes like the Hadza indicate that they light a fire whenever they need one or feel like having one.

In terms of quantities used, those who claime tons of roundwood are needed must explain how the same village on the same site approximately could use wood for fuel, have limited access to it, yet be in place for even thousands of years in one form or another without denuding the woods. The reduction in woodland was in response to the needs of agriculture and of course coal came into use with the massive population growth of the last 300 or so years.
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
17
Scotland
THOaken, just a thought... where you going to get women to have kids with > ?
I'm not being funny here at all. I've seen a some people going back to nature, some of them in a form of racking a shelter from straw and mud and spending there long periods of time. But there is always a lack of women in these examples and for me it says one thing: if you can't provide a life for a women and grow kids, that is no kind of life... only a project. You should check with a females what they think of your project and work in this field too. They would give you a lot of ideas, as my missus give to me on our little "back to nature project".

Many monastic / religious retreats were self contained and were single sex. Yes those folk who don't reproduce may have been said to fail in an evolutionary sense because they haven't passed on their genes but they can lead a fullfilling life in other ways. In many comunal societies (human and animal) there are members who don't breed and help to support the wider group and so shared genes in order to promote survival.
So the project would be viable with or without mixed genders.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,979
4,625
S. Lanarkshire
Modern living standards are very different from living in a roundhouse.
The roundhouse is very comfortable though, and it does not need massive heating to create a micro climate that is not only 'survivable' in the coldest of weather, but is actually protective and place to thrive.

It does need a total mind shift though.

Radiant heat from the centre slowly diffuses throughout the structure and the space contained within. It is not cut off from the outside world but the structure baffles the winds, it breathes with the elements. It will flex with wind, with sunshine, with rain, with the weight of snow.
It will never be 'bone' dry, but it is certainly tinder dry.

No chimney (which would act like a flue and draw the fire, meaning more fuel needed and heat wasted to the atmosphere) means that smoke fills the cone. That smoke suffocates sparks and protects the material of the roof from insect infestation, from fungus, keeps it drying from the inside out (like goretex :) ) and coats anything put up there in a protective layer. Wooden tool handles end up shiny black like ebony, for instance.

Much better than any cold underheated box.

Totally biodegradeable, the roof and the floor rushes could (and were) routinely recycled into the midden heaps that were spread on to the land as fertiliser.

The walls are double hurdles stuffed with dry plant material. If the area is dry then they can be daubed, but that's not always possible. Like Tudor lathe and plaster and split beams/cruck framed structures, dry footing is necessary if the wattle and daub is used.

The biggest mind shift is that the lifestyle of the people who created the round houses was very much outdoors.
Indoors was for chilled out company, dry-ish storage of materials and tools, a safe place to bring animals at night and warm, dry, sleeping quarters for people.
Outdoors was for farming, hunting, fishing, good light to work by, skin prep, butchery, threshing, etc.,

Fuel poverty only really comes about with chimneys, with towns, with cold stone buildings and in areas without peat or hardwood timber. Even the 'hingin' lum' (wooden hood type chimney found in some black houses, totally unconnected to the hearth) is better than a fixed 'drawing' chimney, for fuel use.

Can it be done nowadays ?
Of course it can, but there's no easy way to keep things like books and electronics dry and dust free in them.
The buildings need constant small attentions. The owners need to pay heed to the building and it's environment and make timely repairs and restorations. The biodegradeable bit means that things do decay and need replacing.

It's a very seasonal living, and that means nearly 16 hours of dark for a large part of the year. It means fewer possessions and very little of the trappings of modern life.
Doesn't mean it's a bad life though, or an uncomfortable or unhealthy one.
After all, we're only here now because our ancestors lived very well like that :)

Mary
 

THOaken

Native
Jan 21, 2013
1,299
1
30
England(Scottish Native)
THOaken, just a thought... where you going to get women to have kids with > ?
I'm not being funny here at all. I've seen a some people going back to nature, some of them in a form of racking a shelter from straw and mud and spending there long periods of time. But there is always a lack of women in these examples and for me it says one thing: if you can't provide a life for a women and grow kids, that is no kind of life... only a project. You should check with a females what they think of your project and work in this field too. They would give you a lot of ideas, as my missus give to me on our little "back to nature project".

I don't see anything funny about this question. It's a very good question. I'm currently single, but I would very much like to have a partner by the time I'm ready to proceed to the last phase of the project.
 

THOaken

Native
Jan 21, 2013
1,299
1
30
England(Scottish Native)
THOaken, don't worry about what some people on here say. Sadly the internet is full of pointscorers and naysayers, this forum though seems to have more that it's fair share. You're project looks interesting, hope it goes well for you.
Thanks, TallMikeM. I understand everyone's concerns and I know they're not trying to be mean or anything. I'm the type of person who likes good, constructive criticism. It's all good stuff.
 

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