You guys have some very strange laws

[mountainm]

Amazing then that most gun crime is carried out by those not licensed to own guns. You know what they say "when you criminalise gun ownership, only criminals own guns".

Banning knives or at least all public carrying of knives - is far more logical than banning guns - it wont save any lives, but then neither does banning guns.

Is it? What I hear most of the time it's either a lack of a background check, or a mom leaves her rifle lying around.

We're not talking about banning guns, just tighter regulation. The knee jerk reaction when the topic rises it's head beggars belief.

 

[santaman2000]

The majority of massacres aren't committed by violent criminals but by the mentally ill. ...

Actually no. The vast majority or gang related. Well over 90%

 

[mountainm]

So by the same logic, I assume you are in favour of the regulation, licencing and control of knives? They are, after all, for more prevalent in violent crime. And also, one assumes, as a responsible citizen, in favour of an alcohol consumption licence.

Don't be daft red. A knife is a tool required for cooking amongst other things you simply can't do much to regulate them. A gun on the other hand isn't something every home needs.

 

[mountainm]

Actually no. The vast majority or gang related. Well over 90%

High school massacres?

 

[Toddy]

Respose to BR...
Your gun arguments still don't change opinions though, and that's what is required to pester the folks in Edinburgh or Westminster to alter the laws.
(getting close to the don't discuss; let's not go there)

Knives are useful tools for daily life, alcohol is widely consumed, not many folks have guns or wish to have them either.
Ah, but there's the rub; you do......
I like MountainM's car licence/use analogy. I think that suits the gun issue very well, or at least my opinion of them.
Useful tools in the right situation, and for many folks a sport too.
Do I want the aforementioned screw driver wielding numpty to have access to one though ? Hell, no.

M

 

[santaman2000]

.......Lax gun laws and poor mental health care in the US combine to create the nightmare scenario we see so often in the news headlines.

....

It's already illegal to sell a gun to the mentally ill. And few of the recent (within the last 5 years or so) supposed "mass" killings have been by anybody with a mental illness. I don't count spoiled brats with no sense of responsibility and inflated egos as "mental illness."

 

[British Red]

Don't be daft red. A knife is a tool required for cooking amongst other things you simply can't do much to regulate them. A gun on the other hand isn't something every home needs.

Of course you can - you can make it a five year custodial sentence to carry one in public for any reason at all. You can introduce a licensing scheme to carry them in public.

 

[mountainm]

Of course you can - you can make it a five year custodial sentence to carry one in public for any reason at all. You can introduce a licensing scheme to carry them in public.

That doesn't stop a mentally ill adult buying one.

 

[British Red]

Your gun arguments still don't change opinions though,

Aaah well, if public opinion is all thats required to pass law, even if completely illogical, there will soon be a castle law in this country and capital punishment will be brought back too.

 

[santaman2000]

High school massacres?

See post # 29.

 

[Toddy]

But only if you don't have a reasonable use for carrying it.

M

 

[demographic]

Ahhh. Thanks. Yes, all cans have a pouring spout now. I never knew it was a law, but TBH I'm glad to have them. They certainly have eliminated a lot of spills.

I say "ALL" but that's not completely true. The very small ones (pint or there-a-bouts) that you'd use to carry white gas for your lanterns or stoves don't have them.

But I'm still a bit confused. The Stihl can you linked does indeed have the pouring spout?

Hell I don't know, I can buy those Stihl cans (Which although expensive are very good by the way) and it seems that people in the US can't. I even had a chap asking me if I could import them to the US so he could get them.

Worked out too expensive, even at cost price to be a worthwhile consideration. Initially I was up for it as he would have been a handy as a staging post for motorbike parts but the cost of getting a poxy fuel can over there was just silly.

 

[British Red]

That doesn't stop a mentally ill adult buying one.

It didn't stop them buying a gun either. That didn't prevent gun licencing laws. Be consistent.

 

[Toddy]

Aaah well, if public opinion is all thats required to pass law, even if completely illogical, there will soon be a castle law in this country and capital punishment will be brought back too.

No, no, no....we threw the rights of heritable jurisprudence out with the last of the Feudal laws....and in Scotland we got rid of the right to summary justice by those so empowered in the aftermath of the last Jacobite uprising. Those 'attainted' had their estates forfeited too.

M

 

[mountainm]

It didn't stop them buying a gun either. That didn't prevent gun licencing laws. Be consistent.

But it should! Not sure what you're getting at Red. I'm not trying to take your gun off you. Maybe you'd prefer US style gun laws over here? I certainly wouldn't.

 

[British Red]

No, no, no....we threw the rights of heritable jurisprudence out with the last of the Feudal laws....and in Scotland we got rid of the right to summary justice by those so empowered in the aftermath of the last Jacobite uprising. Those 'attainted' had their estates forfeited too.

M

You can't have it both ways. If you want public opinion to be the basis for law, castle law is something that many surveys show the majority want. You either base your laws on logic, or public opinion, you can't choose one when it suits you and deny it when it doesn't suit.

 

[santaman2000]

But it should! Not sure what you're getting at Red. I'm not trying to take your gun off you. Maybe you'd prefer US style gun laws over here? I certainly wouldn't.

The point is fairly simple: the regulations don't work. The only people who obey them are the already law abiding people.

 

[Toddy]

BR, .....guns and knives are two entirely different issues, and trying to conflate those into one, isn't changing anyone else's opinion on it.

Knives are in daily use in every household in the land; guns aren't. We teach toddlers to eat with a fork and knife; we don't hand them a cut down shotgun and tell the little blighters to shoot thumper for his dinner Mummy and Daddy go to the supermarket these days.

M

 

[mountainm]

The point is fairly simple: the regulations don't work.

Ah Ok let's give up and have no regulation then.

 

[British Red]

But it should! Not sure what you're getting at Red. I'm not trying to take your gun off you. Maybe you'd prefer US style gun laws over here? I certainly wouldn't.

My point is there should be consistency. If you demand licencing laws for items used in violent crime, they should be applied even handedly to all such items, starting with the most commonly used. Whats wrong with that?