With spruce for ground cover it would be bearable, but not comfy, I agree, missed the two blankets part of the argument..
Would it work, or am i soooo wrong??
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With spruce for ground cover it would be bearable, but not comfy, I agree, missed the two blankets part of the argument..
I understand the Vikings used sealskin bags on the boat decks because they were more water resistant than most furs.
Also if you skin them without splitting the belly fur they work out about the right shape.
Never tried one myself, the seal skin I have is from a harp seal and the fur looks a bit thin for the job to me. It would probably make a good supplement to blankets though.
However what i would like to add is this:Across many cultures where wool cloth was used for clothing/blankets, such as plaids, trade blankets etc, through necessity as opposed to choice, travellers caught out in dry snow, would often scrape the snow back to the heather or dig shallow trenches and line with heather or boughs which they would lie on top of, then a blanket or plaid would cover them then they would place snow over the top of this to insulate them. People have used this method relatively recently when escaping from Russian gulaags and it was certainly used in Canada and Alaska during the frontier times.
Incidently I have a pair of Mucks from Canada and I was told the fur on them was black sealskin...but it just looks like rabbit to me! However they are very comfortable in the dry cold weather and snow.
The Igloo stuff is interesting. On another forum I use, the guy who makes these
http://www.grandshelters.com/
is now a member and has posted some good information about living in an Igloo. He uses a Thermarest plus a closed cell mat and sleeps snug. Shame we don't get the snow here
http://www.grandshelters.com/
is now a member and has posted some good information about living in an Igloo. He uses a Thermarest plus a closed cell mat and sleeps snug. Shame we don't get the snow here
I have made and used snow caves before (much easier to make than an ingloo - especially for just a day or three). They are amazing for quick shelter from the cold.
The snow/ice inside does stay a little below freezing, but the room does get up to a pretty comfortable temp - just with body heat. I've had temps up into the low 50's (F) inside with two people before - and -20 (F) outside! The inside does start to melt a bit and glaze over. But the outside temps keep it from melting more than just a bit on the inside. A key point to remember, tho, is to keep a fresh air hole open. CO2 buildup and oxygen depletion can be a concern.
Yes, you do need an "insulating layer" on top of the ice/snow inside where you want to sit/sleep - just like most any time outside. But you only need to insulate from around 25 to 30 degrees (F), not that -20 (F) temp outside.
I have slept out in below freezing temps with only two wool blankets before. Yes, I built up an insulating layer from the ground with leaves/grass. And I have done so many times - and usually without a fire! I don't like to NEED a fire to survive the night. It's a nice comfort to have, but having to rely upon it adds a whole extra level of stress to the experience. I just plan carefully, block any wind/breeze/draft, insulate from the ground, wear my regular clothing to bed, change to dry socks (or clothes if necessary), and mentally prepare myself for it. Good planning and prep got me through the nights more or less comfortably. Obviously, it didn't ... kill me off!
But then, I'm just that grumpy ol' neanderthal caveman living out in the hills. So my experiences will be different from those living in the cities in those climate-controlled "hives".
Other's experiences may vary ...
Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
p.s. The concept of a sleeping "bag" seems to be something of a more modern idea. The historical research I have done in the 1600's through 1800's has shown that most people just used "blankets" - made of animal skins or wool. They just tended to lay and fold them together as needed - but didn't actually "sew" them up into a bag. Ditto the research I have done on Indian cultures. Altho, I do tend to fold my two wool blankets into something that might be viewed as a "bag". I lay one out flat. Then I fold the other in half lengthwise, and lay it on the first along one edge with the folded edges towards the middle of the first blanket. I then fold the other half of the first blanket over the second. At this point I fold under the bottom edges and pin them together. And then I wrap it all up in a tarp - to create my final bedroll. So this does create something of a sleeping "bag", but I can vary it as needed each time I head out.
p.p.s. Yes, my bedroll and camp gear is heavy. But it is also documented to what people used/carried back in the 1700's. So that's what I carry and use, and just live with the weight. That's one of the reasons I and my friends like winter camping/trekking. We then have and use a toboggan (traine) to haul our gear in. And why we also like canoe or batteau trips. But we still have to carefully watch how much extra ... stuff ... we drag along!
The snow/ice inside does stay a little below freezing, but the room does get up to a pretty comfortable temp - just with body heat. I've had temps up into the low 50's (F) inside with two people before - and -20 (F) outside! The inside does start to melt a bit and glaze over. But the outside temps keep it from melting more than just a bit on the inside. A key point to remember, tho, is to keep a fresh air hole open. CO2 buildup and oxygen depletion can be a concern.
Yes, you do need an "insulating layer" on top of the ice/snow inside where you want to sit/sleep - just like most any time outside. But you only need to insulate from around 25 to 30 degrees (F), not that -20 (F) temp outside.
I have slept out in below freezing temps with only two wool blankets before. Yes, I built up an insulating layer from the ground with leaves/grass. And I have done so many times - and usually without a fire! I don't like to NEED a fire to survive the night. It's a nice comfort to have, but having to rely upon it adds a whole extra level of stress to the experience. I just plan carefully, block any wind/breeze/draft, insulate from the ground, wear my regular clothing to bed, change to dry socks (or clothes if necessary), and mentally prepare myself for it. Good planning and prep got me through the nights more or less comfortably. Obviously, it didn't ... kill me off!
But then, I'm just that grumpy ol' neanderthal caveman living out in the hills. So my experiences will be different from those living in the cities in those climate-controlled "hives".
Other's experiences may vary ...
Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
p.s. The concept of a sleeping "bag" seems to be something of a more modern idea. The historical research I have done in the 1600's through 1800's has shown that most people just used "blankets" - made of animal skins or wool. They just tended to lay and fold them together as needed - but didn't actually "sew" them up into a bag. Ditto the research I have done on Indian cultures. Altho, I do tend to fold my two wool blankets into something that might be viewed as a "bag". I lay one out flat. Then I fold the other in half lengthwise, and lay it on the first along one edge with the folded edges towards the middle of the first blanket. I then fold the other half of the first blanket over the second. At this point I fold under the bottom edges and pin them together. And then I wrap it all up in a tarp - to create my final bedroll. So this does create something of a sleeping "bag", but I can vary it as needed each time I head out.
p.p.s. Yes, my bedroll and camp gear is heavy. But it is also documented to what people used/carried back in the 1700's. So that's what I carry and use, and just live with the weight. That's one of the reasons I and my friends like winter camping/trekking. We then have and use a toboggan (traine) to haul our gear in. And why we also like canoe or batteau trips. But we still have to carefully watch how much extra ... stuff ... we drag along!
I will just chime in here and say, you do not need 4 reindeer skins.
A continental market just sat up camp in belfast, until the 20th december...
There was a guy last year selling reindeers at this same market.
He came back this year, and of course I checked them out. For £75 I picked up a skin My body leagth and double me in width at the slimest. My partner at the stall with me at the time held (as in was drapped by many) furs whilst I was searching for a colour and size I wanted, She later told me that she could barely feel the weight of it.
A lot of you do not use full size roll mats, same principle applies here, cut the width you need and square the top and bottom edges, The neck of the skin is very thick and warm, it does of course thin out but not by much. fold it in half neatly taking care not to bend the fibres too much and stick it in your pack as is.
I have not tested it outside yet but indoors with all windows open a silk liner, on the fur on the floor and a wool blanket is quite sweaty.
I have the guys details, no website yet, but emails accepted.
Any one wants me to ask him anything let me know in PM.
A continental market just sat up camp in belfast, until the 20th december...
There was a guy last year selling reindeers at this same market.
He came back this year, and of course I checked them out. For £75 I picked up a skin My body leagth and double me in width at the slimest. My partner at the stall with me at the time held (as in was drapped by many) furs whilst I was searching for a colour and size I wanted, She later told me that she could barely feel the weight of it.
A lot of you do not use full size roll mats, same principle applies here, cut the width you need and square the top and bottom edges, The neck of the skin is very thick and warm, it does of course thin out but not by much. fold it in half neatly taking care not to bend the fibres too much and stick it in your pack as is.
I have not tested it outside yet but indoors with all windows open a silk liner, on the fur on the floor and a wool blanket is quite sweaty.
I have the guys details, no website yet, but emails accepted.
Any one wants me to ask him anything let me know in PM.
Use dog hair. Husky if you can get it. Black labrador if you can't. My dog's available as a donor. You can brush him til he's bald as a coot. Or just stick a broom around our lounge; enough for a glove in one swoop.
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