Wool, warm when wet?
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Hmm.. A couple of points to note.
Any clothing that is wet will increase increase the conduction of heat away from the body. Wool is a little better than most fabrics because it can absorb a lot of water into the fibres and thus away from the body but that water will still have an effect.
Because the water is absorbed it will then take longer to dry out by evaporation. Slowing that evaporation probably slows the heat loss by that method but it is still happening.
My experience for what it is worth is that wool wets slowly which means that if you are not getting drenched, by falling into water for example, then it makes good base and mid layers.
It breathes well and resists odours for a while but is quite heavy especially when damp.
Teamed up with canvas or Ventile as a breathable, water resistant outer layer I think it is difficult to beat, but I try to avoid saying that "It will keep you warm when wet". No. It will keep you a little warmer than some other fabrics but it is best not to get wet.
Any clothing that is wet will increase increase the conduction of heat away from the body. Wool is a little better than most fabrics because it can absorb a lot of water into the fibres and thus away from the body but that water will still have an effect.
Because the water is absorbed it will then take longer to dry out by evaporation. Slowing that evaporation probably slows the heat loss by that method but it is still happening.
My experience for what it is worth is that wool wets slowly which means that if you are not getting drenched, by falling into water for example, then it makes good base and mid layers.
It breathes well and resists odours for a while but is quite heavy especially when damp.
Teamed up with canvas or Ventile as a breathable, water resistant outer layer I think it is difficult to beat, but I try to avoid saying that "It will keep you warm when wet". No. It will keep you a little warmer than some other fabrics but it is best not to get wet.
I went up Ingleborough last weekend in low cloud and fog, I set off wearing an Icebreaker crew and Woolpower 200 over the top. As it wasn't exactly raining I pushed on for a couple of hours, spending a lot of time micro navigating I didn't pay much attention to my clothing. By the time I'd summited and began dropping out of the clag again, my wool layers were pretty much drenched, the fine mist had just been soaked up over time. Luckily I was testing a few bits of kit so had a change in my pack, I noticed the cold as soon as I stopped at a derelict hut, once the stove was on I got out of the wet wool and into fresh clothes and felt warmer instantly. The wool was probably staying warm as I was active, once I was still it cooled down and started sapping my body heat and making my shiver.
It was a pretty daft thing to do really but I was just having an off day, I had a goretex shell and a Paramo smock in my bag all the time, if it had been a multi day trip rather than a day walk I'd have acted differently. I can imagine only having only the one set of wool clothes and managing to get them wet could seriously spoil a nice winter trip.
It was a pretty daft thing to do really but I was just having an off day, I had a goretex shell and a Paramo smock in my bag all the time, if it had been a multi day trip rather than a day walk I'd have acted differently. I can imagine only having only the one set of wool clothes and managing to get them wet could seriously spoil a nice winter trip.
In my experience, the best benefit from wool is to be gained by wearing it next to the skin. It is of no more benefit (than synthetics) when worn as a mid or outer layer. YMMV
Anecdote time: For some daft reason I decided to jog around the city a bit then swim back across the river. It was winter. It was well below zero. I wore jogging bottoms, an old felted down wool jumper and a short goretex jacket.
Swam fully clothed - I remember that my neck got really cold (kept head above water).
When I got home and undressed, I was amazed to find that my torso was bone dry. Although water slopped down my neck and obviously came up inside the jacket, it hadn't been wicked next to my skin at all.
Anecdote time: For some daft reason I decided to jog around the city a bit then swim back across the river. It was winter. It was well below zero. I wore jogging bottoms, an old felted down wool jumper and a short goretex jacket.
Swam fully clothed - I remember that my neck got really cold (kept head above water).
When I got home and undressed, I was amazed to find that my torso was bone dry. Although water slopped down my neck and obviously came up inside the jacket, it hadn't been wicked next to my skin at all.
Don't wool wet, it does become heavy, cold and a real blugger to dry. Synthetics don't absorb water in anywhere near the same level so dry much faster. Wool is nice, carry a Goretex shell top though if your in wet conditions, Ventile is great in dry cold weather.
I work for Royal Mail and when I was on deliveries in the deep snow my feet would be ice cold and soaking if i just wore normal socks.
I bought some merino wool socks and the difference was unreal. Even when soaking my feet were still pretty warm in the snow.
Glad im not out in alll weathers now!! (unless i choose to be)
I bought some merino wool socks and the difference was unreal. Even when soaking my feet were still pretty warm in the snow.
Glad im not out in alll weathers now!! (unless i choose to be)
I use a lot of wool clothing and I find it is still great when wet. When raining I wear a wool jacket and a waterproof boonie and that does me fine. It is a fairly substancial wool jacket though. I have been out with other people before in that and didn't feel cold at all when everybody else was rather miserable. And this seems like an interesting idea to me http://www.cabelas.com/product/Clot...ters-Wool-Parka-150-Regular/e/7300/733062.uts
It's a wool coat with a waterproof lining.
It's a wool coat with a waterproof lining.
When I did a scuba diving course 50 years ago I couldn't afford a dry suit and wet suits were as yet unheard of, at least by me. So we used to dive in England in wooly sweaters. They kept us much warmer than nothing when in cold water and breathing cold compressed air for 30-40 minutes a dive. In those days wool was the only warm option for outdoor life, topped with a cotton canvas wind and waterproof outer layer. Just recently I've gone back to a wool sweater as a mid layer and it does seem warmer than the equivalent weight fleece, but I'd still pick a modern fleece for an extended trip because of its drying properties. And fleece is tougher and cheaper As for getting wet, remember the adage," It's easier to stay dry than to get dry!"
My all wool donkey jacket kept me warm and toasty even in the middle of the worst winter weather (wore it out of doors everyday for the whole of the winter of 1984) without even thinking about the cold. The leather/PVC patches on the shoulders, kept the water from soaking in to the top and back. I miss that jacket, and at £260 to replace it, I don't think I have another like it.
I am wearing wool as my sole protection against the elements through the winter and so far i have no complaints.
Was down the lottie digging today, so swapped the cotton sweat shirt for a Bison Wool one and bunged it on over my T-shirt. Really comfortable until I sat down for a brew and started shivering and felt damp and cold. The problem? A cotton T-shirt. Whipped it off, stuck the wool Bison back on and topped that off with a paramo top - toasty, albeit a little itchy.
Cotton sucks and I should have known better, but was in a bit of a rush this morning and grabbed the first thing I found.
Cotton sucks and I should have known better, but was in a bit of a rush this morning and grabbed the first thing I found.
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Definitely your best advice Can 100 % agree with the above advice Wool is great but not when you are out for a few days and its wet straight away.
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This has been my experience exactly. My wool clothing gets wet quite readily (I do not wear thick coats that act like sponges. My clothing is mostly thin shirts). When I am active it stays reasonably warm, but when I stop, I get as cold as in any other wet clothing.
When I'm in the city, I do wear a thick wool coat. Because it is thick, it takes quite a bit of rain for the water to get all the way through, so in a way it works. That being said however, it gets very heavy, and takes forever to dry. There was some small amount of rain at 6AM today when I was going to work. It is now 12 hours later, and the coat is still wet.
You either need to wear it, and let your body heat drive off the damp, or hang it somewhere where heat will rise through it.
Our schools and offices used to have hot pipes, or tiny low radiators, underneath the cloakroom racks for just this purpose. Coats, jackets and heavy outer wear made of wool will dry quickly this way. Traditional outer school clothing was a woollen blazer and a barathea coat. Cheap cagoules are more easily cared for and replaced, and many schools have wax jackets as their winter uniform coat now.
Nowadays we just don't expect our outer clothing to let rain through, and instead we get sodden wet with sweat when working hard and the permeability is compromised and unable to cope.
In the past, the folks who sailed, the fishermen, the climbers, the mountaineers, the skiers, the workmen and the farmhands wore wool. Wool and linen and if it were really torrential an oilskin over the top or a leather jerkin or a fishskin jacket. Still very practical, especially with the waterproof and total windproofness of the modern fabrics outer layer.
Most folks in the West are no longer outdoors people. Most of us live indoors, we work indoors, we play indoors, even those of us who are more active outdoors than the majority, spend a huge part of our lives indoors.
Our body's natural thermo regulation have changed; we no longer just get on with things when we're damp, we no longer work ourselves and our clothes dry.
We also insist that wool is 'pure new wool' and machine washable, everyday if we choose
It might make laundering easy, but it's removes one of wools greatest advantages; it won't felt.
Good wool, barathea, melton, real tweeds and the like, are better than any of the fake fleeces............costs a fortune right enough (shouldn't but these are considered 'quality', 'high end', products these days) but good, properly spun and woven wool will withstand scorching, hedges, thorns, sea water, sweat, smoke, and still be warm, sound, look good, and it'll last for years.......unlike delaminating goretex's, triple ceramics, and UV stabilized plastics and woven from recycled milk bottles and coloured with petrochemicasl wick-aways that snag, rip, tear, wear done in no time at all.........that funnily enough cost a fortune, because they're a 'shiny' recommended in 'technical' reviews
I'm not agin modern fabrics, but I think people often need to be more aware of the properties of fabrics and how to use them to best advantage.
cheers,
M
Our schools and offices used to have hot pipes, or tiny low radiators, underneath the cloakroom racks for just this purpose. Coats, jackets and heavy outer wear made of wool will dry quickly this way. Traditional outer school clothing was a woollen blazer and a barathea coat. Cheap cagoules are more easily cared for and replaced, and many schools have wax jackets as their winter uniform coat now.
Nowadays we just don't expect our outer clothing to let rain through, and instead we get sodden wet with sweat when working hard and the permeability is compromised and unable to cope.
In the past, the folks who sailed, the fishermen, the climbers, the mountaineers, the skiers, the workmen and the farmhands wore wool. Wool and linen and if it were really torrential an oilskin over the top or a leather jerkin or a fishskin jacket. Still very practical, especially with the waterproof and total windproofness of the modern fabrics outer layer.
Most folks in the West are no longer outdoors people. Most of us live indoors, we work indoors, we play indoors, even those of us who are more active outdoors than the majority, spend a huge part of our lives indoors.
Our body's natural thermo regulation have changed; we no longer just get on with things when we're damp, we no longer work ourselves and our clothes dry.
We also insist that wool is 'pure new wool' and machine washable, everyday if we choose
It might make laundering easy, but it's removes one of wools greatest advantages; it won't felt.
Good wool, barathea, melton, real tweeds and the like, are better than any of the fake fleeces............costs a fortune right enough (shouldn't but these are considered 'quality', 'high end', products these days) but good, properly spun and woven wool will withstand scorching, hedges, thorns, sea water, sweat, smoke, and still be warm, sound, look good, and it'll last for years.......unlike delaminating goretex's, triple ceramics, and UV stabilized plastics and woven from recycled milk bottles and coloured with petrochemicasl wick-aways that snag, rip, tear, wear done in no time at all.........that funnily enough cost a fortune, because they're a 'shiny' recommended in 'technical' reviews
I'm not agin modern fabrics, but I think people often need to be more aware of the properties of fabrics and how to use them to best advantage.
cheers,
M
Mary, I got warm by just reading your reply....
I have quite some "old" wool in my collection and there is a major difference in feel/quality/structure between that and modern stuff. The older stuff is..... well.... woolier, has a rougher structure and feels not as flimsy as modern "wool". I'll trade a "high quality" swandri against a homeknit Norwegian jumper anytime!!
A "woolen" piece of clothing nowadays is not the same as one from 25 or 40 years ago.
I have quite some "old" wool in my collection and there is a major difference in feel/quality/structure between that and modern stuff. The older stuff is..... well.... woolier, has a rougher structure and feels not as flimsy as modern "wool". I'll trade a "high quality" swandri against a homeknit Norwegian jumper anytime!!
A "woolen" piece of clothing nowadays is not the same as one from 25 or 40 years ago.
Ask yourself the question "Why did pretty much all climbers/hill walkers ditch wool and go for synthetics" Two main factors would be fleece is warm and dries easily. I like a nice wooly jumper as much as the next bushcrafter but I'm memories of being wet all weekend as a youngster hill walking because my Ventile leaked and my jumper(s) got soaked.
How warm wool or synthetic materials will stay is down to how much air they are able to still trap when wet that is why down is carp when wet because in turns into mush and does not hold air .
Primaloft works because the synthetic material is still able to hold its shape when wet so still is able to hold air however if it is so soaked that the air is replaced with water then it loses its insulating properties . The same apply s to wool a knit that is lose yet firm (like a wool power garment) has the ability to trap air when wet so will stay warm unless so wet all air pockets are full of water
Primaloft works because the synthetic material is still able to hold its shape when wet so still is able to hold air however if it is so soaked that the air is replaced with water then it loses its insulating properties . The same apply s to wool a knit that is lose yet firm (like a wool power garment) has the ability to trap air when wet so will stay warm unless so wet all air pockets are full of water
You either need to wear it, and let your body heat drive off the damp, or hang it somewhere where heat will rise through it.
Our schools and offices used to have hot pipes, or tiny low radiators, underneath the cloakroom racks for just this purpose. Coats, jackets and heavy outer wear made of wool will dry quickly this way. Traditional outer school clothing was a woollen blazer and a barathea coat. Cheap cagoules are more easily cared for and replaced, and many schools have wax jackets as their winter uniform coat now.
Nowadays we just don't expect our outer clothing to let rain through, and instead we get sodden wet with sweat when working hard and the permeability is compromised and unable to cope.
In the past, the folks who sailed, the fishermen, the climbers, the mountaineers, the skiers, the workmen and the farmhands wore wool. Wool and linen and if it were really torrential an oilskin over the top or a leather jerkin or a fishskin jacket. Still very practical, especially with the waterproof and total windproofness of the modern fabrics outer layer.
Most folks in the West are no longer outdoors people. Most of us live indoors, we work indoors, we play indoors, even those of us who are more active outdoors than the majority, spend a huge part of our lives indoors.
Our body's natural thermo regulation have changed; we no longer just get on with things when we're damp, we no longer work ourselves and our clothes dry.
We also insist that wool is 'pure new wool' and machine washable, everyday if we choose
It might make laundering easy, but it's removes one of wools greatest advantages; it won't felt.
Good wool, barathea, melton, real tweeds and the like, are better than any of the fake fleeces............costs a fortune right enough (shouldn't but these are considered 'quality', 'high end', products these days) but good, properly spun and woven wool will withstand scorching, hedges, thorns, sea water, sweat, smoke, and still be warm, sound, look good, and it'll last for years.......unlike delaminating goretex's, triple ceramics, and UV stabilized plastics and woven from recycled milk bottles and coloured with petrochemicasl wick-aways that snag, rip, tear, wear done in no time at all.........that funnily enough cost a fortune, because they're a 'shiny' recommended in 'technical' reviews
I'm not agin modern fabrics, but I think people often need to be more aware of the properties of fabrics and how to use them to best advantage.
cheers,
M
Very well put
Because they don't mind smelling like goats by any chance?
Synthetics are great for short periods but if you've got to wear them for a few days at a time, as is often the case on expeditions, then wool has a huge social advantage providing you keep it reasonably dry.
As with all such arguments, each side has it's zealots, but choose your kit based upon you own requirements.
Someone working out of a bag in the back of the car has very different requirements to somebody four days from the nearest support.
(And before Rik starts going on about "You're never more than 10 minutes from McDonalds in this country", some people travel and some people don't.)
You either need to wear it, and let your body heat drive off the damp, or hang it somewhere where heat will rise through it.
Our schools and offices used to have hot pipes, or tiny low radiators, underneath the cloakroom racks for just this purpose. Coats, jackets and heavy outer wear made of wool will dry quickly this way. Traditional outer school clothing was a woollen blazer and a barathea coat. Cheap cagoules are more easily cared for and replaced, and many schools have wax jackets as their winter uniform coat now.
Nowadays we just don't expect our outer clothing to let rain through, and instead we get sodden wet with sweat when working hard and the permeability is compromised and unable to cope.
In the past, the folks who sailed, the fishermen, the climbers, the mountaineers, the skiers, the workmen and the farmhands wore wool. Wool and linen and if it were really torrential an oilskin over the top or a leather jerkin or a fishskin jacket. Still very practical, especially with the waterproof and total windproofness of the modern fabrics outer layer.
Most folks in the West are no longer outdoors people. Most of us live indoors, we work indoors, we play indoors, even those of us who are more active outdoors than the majority, spend a huge part of our lives indoors.
Our body's natural thermo regulation have changed; we no longer just get on with things when we're damp, we no longer work ourselves and our clothes dry.
We also insist that wool is 'pure new wool' and machine washable, everyday if we choose
It might make laundering easy, but it's removes one of wools greatest advantages; it won't felt.
Good wool, barathea, melton, real tweeds and the like, are better than any of the fake fleeces............costs a fortune right enough (shouldn't but these are considered 'quality', 'high end', products these days) but good, properly spun and woven wool will withstand scorching, hedges, thorns, sea water, sweat, smoke, and still be warm, sound, look good, and it'll last for years.......unlike delaminating goretex's, triple ceramics, and UV stabilized plastics and woven from recycled milk bottles and coloured with petrochemicasl wick-aways that snag, rip, tear, wear done in no time at all.........that funnily enough cost a fortune, because they're a 'shiny' recommended in 'technical' reviews
I'm not agin modern fabrics, but I think people often need to be more aware of the properties of fabrics and how to use them to best advantage.
+1 to that, particularly the last line;
"... people often need to be more aware of the properties of fabrics and how to use them to best advantage."
