Wool, warm when wet?

[RonW]

Hmmm, is it just me or has this thread derailed into a wool vs.polyesther-contest??
People are comparing apples to peares here and are bringing in examples of extremes that can't be compared to one another or even have relevance...

First of all I don't think those tests mean a thing at all. If you want to do a proper test then both materials should be used under the exact circumstances each time. Laboratory controlled... and leave emotional "
The wool clothing back than most likely was different than it is now. The people back than were different than they are now and the weatherconditions that were endured back than are never exactly matched, neither on Everest nor in the arctic.

To return to the OP's question if wool is warm when wet; my personal experience says yes. Not cosy warm, but you'll manage to function for a considerable amount of time.

 

[John Fenna]

Hmmm, is it just me or has this thread derailed into a wool vs.polyesther-contest??
People are comparing apples to peares here and are bringing in examples of extremes that can't be compared to one another or even have relevance...

First of all I don't think those tests mean a thing at all. If you want to do a proper test then both materials should be used under the exact circumstances each time. Laboratory controlled... and leave emotional "
The wool clothing back than most likely was different than it is now. The people back than were different than they are now and the weatherconditions that were endured back than are never exactly matched, neither on Everest nor in the arctic.

To return to the OP's question if wool is warm when wet; my personal experience says yes. Not cosy warm, but you'll manage to function for a considerable amount of time.

Well put!
I was interested in your post on your "new" winter clothing" thread about how the army surplus gear worked for you and bought a repro M43 hat myself.
Mine is only 70% wool 30% viscose not 100% wool with a cotton lining but it is still very cozy and practical to wear - I love the fold down sides! - and it keeps the showers off admirably
I have yet to get it totally soaking yet but so far it out performs any synthetic hat I have used in terms of warmth and comfort without over heating.
At only £20 (about £10 less than an aproximate modern equivalent such as the famous LA Mountain cap) I think it reasonably priced and - if you can get over the "storm-trooper" look - an admirable bit of winter headwear.

 

[bronskimac]

I started the thread so maybe should take some of the blame for firing up a debate. I got quite wet on the last day at Comrie Croft for the New Year and my woollen jumper kept me comfortable.

I will never be a lightweight walker or even a heavy weight walker. I carry what I can get on my motorbike so most of the time I have the kitchen sink in tow. So wool is the way for me - cheep (if you're lucky), buying sophisticated synthetics would be overkill for me.

Every time I am in town these days I do the rounds of the charity shops looking for wool clobber.

 

[davyowens]

According to WH Murray's legendary writings - The pioneering climbers of Scotland & elswhere used woolen mitts to great advantage on many of the classic winter climbs & noted 'enthusiastically' that the wet wool 'not only kept the hands delightfully warm - but it also partially froze to the handholds - giving much needed purchase & security'. ( a nice peice of wool-lore) - Obviously, wool was the technical clothing of that era - the choice of brands & materials nowadays would give you a headache but there's some bloody good stuff out there.

 

[Wayland]

According to WH Murray's legendary writings - The pioneering climbers of Scotland & elswhere used woolen mitts to great advantage on many of the classic winter climbs & noted 'enthusiastically' that the wet wool 'not only kept the hands delightfully warm - but it also partially froze to the handholds - giving much needed purchase & security'. ( a nice peice of wool-lore) - Obviously, wool was the technical clothing of that era - the choice of brands & materials nowadays would give you a headache but there's some bloody good stuff out there.

It used to be a well known practice of wearing an old pair of socks on the outside of shoes to give grip on snow and ice. The same principle is used today in the design of Autosocks to provide traction on snowy roads, much like snowchains but easier to fit.

I must admit it hadn't occurred to me that woollen mittens might produce the same effect for grip. Very interesting.

 

[rg598]

Well, since I am partly to blame for derailing the thread, to get back to the original question, in my experience, wet wool will not keep you warm. I hove gotten dangerously cold in wet woolen clothing. It was fine when moving around, but when I stopped, the wet areas lost heat quickly, much more noticeably than the dry areas. I am sure it is better than some other materials, but in my experience it is no miracle material.

 

[John Fenna]

As I recall my old Dachstien (sp?) woolen mitts (made from wool that was shrunk and felted) were not only warm even when soaking , with an ice/snow covering frozen to them, but also great for snow and ice climbing as you could literally get the glove half frozen to an icy hold for improved grip....
The performance of wool seems to rely somewhat on the kind of wool and how it is used in making a garment.
I would much prefer to wear soaking thick felted wool to moist denim if I wanted to stay warm!

 

[rg598]

I have gotten minor frost bite while wearing woolen mittens. It wasn't even particularly cold, but they got wet from the snow. I am sure that they were better than a denim equivalent, but we should not fool ourselves into thinking that wool will keep you warm when wet. Wool has to be protected from moisture just like any other material. The Dachstein mittens were popular with climbers, but any self respecting climber would have them covered in a shell if they wanted to keep their fingers after they were done climbing, or keep the mittens intact for a second climb. I have a pair and they work great. However, if you get them wet they will turn into a block of ice overnight. There is no way they will keep your hands warm the next day. Anyway, that's my experience.

 

[John Fenna]

I got minor frostbite when I dropped one of my Dachstein mitts up in the Cairngorms - I wore one of my spare socks on my hand to act as a replacement but despite it being a good thick and dry sock it was no where near as warm as my snow encrusted Dachy!
I climbed/walked/played in the Cairngorm winters for quite a while and never found the need for shells over my Dachies ... though I did sometimes where silk liner gloves in them.

 

[Toddy]

Real boiled wool mitts stop the wind, yet allow moisture to evaporate. In our climate they allow the hands to stay functional long past the time they'd have been useless in anything else.
They are like weatherproofed armour
It takes an awful lot to get them wet, and if they do, just squeeze them out, shake them out and put them back on again. The heat of your hands will dry them off given half a chance

Most modern ski type gloves are a sweaty mess in a few days of hard work; wool never is.
It can get absolutely filthy, but it soaks off and they're good as new.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[John Fenna]

As a quick aside - anyone know where I can get Dachstien mitts these days?
I lost my last set a few years ago....

 

[treadlightly]

They crop up on ebay from time to time

 

[John Fenna]

They crop up on ebay from time to time

I do not do the bay of evil - it scares me!
Too easy to end up poor on there!

Back on track...
I have found that - no - wool is no miracle fabric, it does what it does and does it well, especially if well selected wool garments are used in the way they are meant to be used.
They can be a lot warmer when wet than synthetic gear and other natural fabrics but tend to be bulkier and at times heavier than any kind of equal performing synthetic equivalent but are more comfortable to wear, are quieter, less prone to odour etc and generally kinder to the environment.
Overall I find that I prefer natural materials for clothing, though they do take more thought about selection and care to get the best out of them, - and I find well selected wool clothing warmer to wear when wet than the vast majority of alternatives.
Just my experience here .... of 36 years as an outdoor instructor in places around the globe from jungles to sub-arctic plateaux, as a designer of outdoor clothing for such companies as Craghoppers and Snowdon Clothing (who used to make stuff for the Antarctic Survey among others), as a reviewer of kit for many magazines from SWAT to Walking Wales and as a lover of the outdoors in all its moods
I have used many different synthetics that are good (Buffalo still use photos of me enjoying a winter swim using their excellent kit) but I still think that wool is warmer than many modern miracle fabrics - even when it is wet
It all depends on using the right wool product and your own metabolism i guess.

 

[rik_uk3]

"but I still think that wool is warmer than many modern miracle fabrics - even when it is wet" How long to dry it compared to synthetics? How easy is it to wash at home? How much does it cost in terms of warmth to £ ratio. How many variations in design compared to synthetics.

I found in my experience that http://www.needlesports.com/Catalog...Resistant-Gloves-Mitts/Dachstein-Mitts-LAC-DM Dachstein mitts when wet were pretty much buggered for the weekend and never fully dried out and personally relied on silk and thinner gloves.

So, back on track, no, wool won't keep you warm when wet; just my opinion but one shared by many (or else why are we not all running round the hills in our nice wooly jumpers and bob hats?).

 

[Toddy]

because good wool, properly spun and woven wool, is expensive and it's not bung it in the washing machine and tumble drier stuff. Folk seem to prefer 'fashion' and laziness to quality and a little effort to deal properly with kit, these days.
A little care and like the Sam Vimes school of thought on good boots, it'll last a lifetime

John, I know you have someone who can knit for you if I find a good pattern and decent wool for you, you could have your own made and felted down to fit you perfectly ?

Some of the wools from Texere for instance ?
http://www.texere-yarns.co.uk/texereshop/Wool_Knitting_Yarns.html

cheers,
Toddy

 

[John Fenna]

.

(or else why are we not all running round the hills in our nice wooly jumpers and bob hats?).

erm ... I do wear wool tops, trousers and hats up the hills ....

 

[John Fenna]

because good wool, properly spun and woven wool, is expensive and it's not bung it in the washing machine and tumble drier stuff. Folk seem to prefer 'fashion' and laziness to quality and a little effort to deal properly with kit, these days.
A little care and like the Sam Vimes school of thought on good boots, it'll last a lifetime

John, I know you have someone who can knit for you if I find a good pattern and decent wool for you, you could have your own made and felted down to fit you perfectly ?

Some of the wools from Texere for instance ?
http://www.texere-yarns.co.uk/texereshop/Wool_Knitting_Yarns.html

cheers,
Toddy

Ooooh - that sounds interesting ...any idea of costs?
Remember ... I am a poor man ...

 

[rg598]

Dachstein Mittens: http://www.bradleyalpinist.com/cart...ducts_id=467&zenid=2itims71h1dkbtefnfmol37u50

My experience with woolen mittens when compared to modern synthetic ones is 100% different from Toddy's. All I can say is, don't get your wool clothing wet.

 

[Toddy]

My husband walks daily wearing a wool hoodie bushshirt. Except in downpour weather he comes home dry inside after two hours out walking down through the woods and along the river banks.
The two hoodies (that word feels odd to a Scot, a hoodie is a grey capped crow to us) he has are not from heavily fulled wool. If it's windy he needs to layer up underneath.

If the rain is torrential he puts a goretex (Slioch) over the top.

I'm about to make him a new one, mostly so that I can actually get the old ones soaked, washed, they're about ready to stand up by themselves and I think I might lanolinise at least one of them to see how it changes things.

I work outdoors, and when I did a lot of fieldwork the only gloves that stayed warm, fit to be used day in day out regardless of rain, hail, sleet, snow or mud, were my own hand made, pure wool, tightly felted mitts. They did get wet, but they do dry out in use, and even wet, they kept my hands warm.

To keep them warm all they need to do is stop the wind. You can be sodden wet to the skin, but so long as you stop the wind and keep moving you can work all day. Stop and open up your clothing and let it dry off.
Layer up the wool though, as in traditional clothing, and it's warm, breathable and incredibly weatherproof. ( the swanndri with the charcoal grey wool flannel lining is an excellent example of this type of garment)

Wool traps air, and it's really good at trapping warm air. It does let that warm air slowly wick away moisture though and if you keep that working you will have no problems.
It doesn't seem to harbour bacteria the way synthetics do either, so no foul smells even when worn day in day out, and no pollution or health issues with the 'anti-bacterial' coatings that are applied to try to stop the stale sour smell on the synthetics.

From our point of view, it's safe near fire. Linen is very, very good though, and tightly woven cotton is usually okay, but that wears not so well; creases and folds and seam lines where there are draw cords, rub through and shorten the life of the garment. I still like my wax jacket, even if it is kind of scruffy but then I made mine with a wool flannel lining

At the end of the day, it's each to his or her own.
Head, feet and hands; if they're cold 's'no funny being out sometimes :/

cheers,
Toddy

 

[EdS]

As a quick aside - anyone know where I can get Dachstien mitts these days?
I lost my last set a few years ago....

I've got a pair that where only worn once - -not a fan of mitts really, prefer gloves.

What sort of size are you?

Failing that:

http://www.needlesports.com/Catalog...Resistant-Gloves-Mitts/Dachstein-Mitts-LAC-DM