Woodland

[WoodWhite]

Hello from china
I was wondering how much woodland it would take to live self sufficiently, i.e., maximum amount of food hunted and gathered, the rest from allotments, I keep looking at woods on woods4sale and wondering if however many acres would be enough
Just want to hear peoples opinions.

Probably wont be able to check back for a while, getting on a 3 days river cruise down some amazing gorges , nothing to do but eat buffet meals and look at scenery.

Lol think of me when your at work/school.

 

[william#]

do you mean purely hunting and gathering no farming or keeping of animals at all ?

 

[WoodWhite]

allotments, and possibley a goat or two

 

[Treemonk]

I think that the woodland and allotment/pasture areas are going to be distinct. I'm not sure on the agricultural area you will need to eat through the year (and surplus for sale/trade) but the real surprise for you will probably be frewood and the area needed. The better quality broadleaved woodland could probably sustain c. 8 m3 volume growth per hectatre per year at full commercial stocking. If you have poorer land and lower stocking then you will have less increment. Remember you will need construction (sawn) and coppice timber as well as firewood. You would also probably need a slightly larger area to allow for different species' demands and growth of all the size classes.

 

[hen]

dear greenleaf,

We have nearly 50 acres of mixed land - including 25 acres of oak woodland and a large healthy river. Four of us would probably be able to be self sufficient in shelter and food, year round, if we topped up our wild food with a small number of farmed animals and cultivated some greens and potatoes. Wild food wise we would be sorted for venison as there is a good red deer population on our land, there are lots of squirrels and the odd pheasant too. With a bit of poking around and depending on the time of year there are plenty of vegetables, fungi and herbage to be scoffed too.

Hard work though and we definitely need the acreage to be successful in foraging and hunting over a long period.

The woods for sale on those sites are normally very small and you'd be lucky to get a mature deciduous (non-coppice) woodland of more than a few acres for a reasonable price. Although I have noticed their prices seem to be coming down a fraction - or is it my imagination?!

If you do want to buy a woodland you would be wise to look around at all the different agents.

hen

 

[Badger74]

My first post, but lurked for a long time.

I have read a book by (first name lost) Seymore, and its all about self sufficiency on five acres. Apparently 1 acre of woodland would be a sustainable fuel source and then its mixed in with a cow,pigs, chickens and a couple of fields.

 

[hen]

hi badger,

I think you might be talking about John Seymour, does that sound right? If it is John Seymour, the systems he writes about are great and are actually very old small holding practices. However, a lot of people agree that what he says in his books is generally only possible under very good conditions, which are rare.

In my opinion Forest gardening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_gardening
) is perhaps the closest we could ever get to the perfect 'farming' foraging system in a small area of woodland. Although only one person has really been successful at this in this country. (Robert Hart - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hart_(forest_gardener)).

1 acre of woodland is only a sustainable fuel source if you have a particular sized space to heat, a particular burner, particular trees of a particular age etc. It's really not that simple to get all the factors right. It takes lots of planning and careful attention.

So although it's all possible, it's a very fine line as to whether or not it is practical.

That's my two penneth anyway!

 

[Peter_t]

i would avoid woods4sale like the plague. basicly they sell small overpriced woodlands to people who know nothing about them. like hen said it would probably just be copice with no decent sized trees.

pete

 

[Badger74]

Hen, yes it was John (looked when I got home) and I doff my cap to your greater knowladge. Quite dissapointed now looking foward to winning the lottery and buying my own 5 acres.

 

[hen]

Hen, yes it was John (looked when I got home) and I doff my cap to your greater knowladge. Quite dissapointed now looking foward to winning the lottery and buying my own 5 acres.

Don't be disappointed Badger!! Them's just my opinions! See for yourself, as I said, "it's possible..."

hen
x

 

[Minotaur]

The book is "The Complete Book Of Self-Sufficency" By John Seymour. He says five arces of arble land, can support a family of six.

Perma-Culture, is worth looking into. It is the proper name for the forest gardening. They argue that nature does not grow, the way we do. It is basically the three sisters system on a bigger scale. Native Americans used to grow beans, sunflowers, and gourds together, because the sunflowers gave the beans something to climb, and the gourds, used the ground. There is a documentary that is worth looking at, they have a normal garden in the UK, produce enough to live off, but no animals. They have written a book, I think as well. If they could do it in that small a space, you might not need five arces. Espically if you add in bunnies etc, and not cows. Would be interesting to see if anyone has done the forest thing, because you must be able to keep pigs and goats in forests. Pigs espically, it is their original habiat.

On woodforsale they had my idea woodland, a place just outside york, with a pond, fishing rights, and already set for fishing. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens to all of the woodlands they sold now. They had 20 or 30 acres, depending on were, for between 20,000, and 40,000. The thing you need to look into is what you get for your money because a lot of the time you did not get any of the useful rights. Like sporting, hunting, business etc.

I would like to do something like Hugh Fernley Whenstall did in the original River Cottage Programs. I do not want to farm, but small hold, on a scale that lets me live on my own terms.

That is the other problem, were you live? Getting planning in a forest is a nightmare. The last person to do, he is the famous wood worker, has a special permssion. He dies, the house goes. He has the planning permission, and not the house. Think it took him over ten years to get that.

 

[rivermom]

Hen, yes it was John (looked when I got home) and I doff my cap to your greater knowladge. Quite dissapointed now looking foward to winning the lottery and buying my own 5 acres.

Seymores systems work quite well, but it takes a long time to get it up and running. In the first place, you have to wean yourself off the twenty-first century.
And I would not be too worried about woodlands with no big trees in them. Coppices are amazingly productive if you learn the necessary skills. You can even build a house out of coppice wood and earth.
But take it slowly. change your life a little at a time.

 

[British Red]

The book is "The Complete Book Of Self-Sufficency" By John Seymour. He says five arces of arble land, can support a family of six.

Perma-Culture, is worth looking into. It is the proper name for the forest gardening. They argue that nature does not grow, the way we do. It is basically the three sisters system on a bigger scale. Native Americans used to grow beans, sunflowers, and gourds together, because the sunflowers gave the beans something to climb, and the gourds, used the ground. There is a documentary that is worth looking at, they have a normal garden in the UK, produce enough to live off, but no animals. They have written a book, I think as well. If they could do it in that small a space, you might not need five arces. Espically if you add in bunnies etc, and not cows. Would be interesting to see if anyone has done the forest thing, because you must be able to keep pigs and goats in forests. Pigs espically, it is their original habiat.

On woodforsale they had my idea woodland, a place just outside york, with a pond, fishing rights, and already set for fishing. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens to all of the woodlands they sold now. They had 20 or 30 acres, depending on were, for between 20,000, and 40,000. The thing you need to look into is what you get for your money because a lot of the time you did not get any of the useful rights. Like sporting, hunting, business etc.

I would like to do something like Hugh Fernley Whenstall did in the original River Cottage Programs. I do not want to farm, but small hold, on a scale that lets me live on my own terms.

That is the other problem, were you live? Getting planning in a forest is a nightmare. The last person to do, he is the famous wood worker, has a special permssion. He dies, the house goes. He has the planning permission, and not the house. Think it took him over ten years to get that.

I think you are thinking of Ben Law

 

[verloc]

A little aside....
Hen - just started reading your blog and it's one of the best things ive seen for a long long time, congrats on a great read!!

Im only half way through and have to stop as a week in front of the computer has melted my eyes, but i will continue later.

just thought I would say top job.

edit____

bah went back and read it anyway - the missus isnt too pleased, I've got us selling the house and writing a shopping list

 

[Minotaur]

I think you are thinking of Ben Law

Think you are right.

Seymores systems work quite well, but it takes a long time to get it up and running. In the first place, you have to wean yourself off the twenty-first century.
And I would not be too worried about woodlands with no big trees in them. Coppices are amazingly productive if you learn the necessary skills. You can even build a house out of coppice wood and earth.

Not sure if from when they revisted Ben but have seen willow planted, and harvested every year as a fuel supply.

One of the things you have to take on board in a change like this is you would need 3, or 4 years to set it up, on site. Most fruit trees/bushes/canes need a year at least some need two. It is the weird things that might get you lynched, try turning the central heating off for a few days.... My fiancees went last year, you forget how cold it really is! Imagine camp cold all the time, unless you sort out amazing heating systems, that take ten years to pay for themselves, at least.

But take it slowly. change your life a little at a time.

That is why I think you would need to make a living were your new place is. Also it would be even better if you had a tradeable trade i.e. anything in the building industry. Just because you think it is not tradeable does not make it so, an accountant, or book keeper could trade their skills. Read a story to do with the credit crunch, of an accountant trading skills for holiday.