Within the spirit of the law

[Toddy]

Does anyone have any experience with this knife?
ebay item no 5164980206.
I need something that I can keep readily at hand, that won't cause me any grief, that will fit my hand (very small, 6 or 6 1/2 gloves) but will actually work for cutting small branches, fibres, bark, willow, etc., when I'm working with schoolkids. This isn't a lock- knife and it seems to be below the length threshold.
I'm reluctant to spend an awful lot on a knife since I'm really quite happy with what I have for everyday stuff, and I'd never even considered a neck knife until I read some of the threads on this forum.

All input welcome.

Toddy

 

[hootchi]

Please someone jump in if I'm wrong but I thought all fixed blades were no go in public? Small or not.:?:

I'll go and look further...

 

[Adi007]

I'm afraid that it's considered a fixed blade and as such technically illegal to carry in a public place without good reason.

Here's an article you might like to read: http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/articles/knife_law.html

A fixed blade of any length (even under 3 inches) needs to have a good reason to carry it.

 

[hootchi]

Yep. Just got back from British blades and Adi summed it up. :biggthump

All you can carry is a readily foldable knife under 3'' unless there is good reason eg. for religous reasons, work or national costume.

It's summed up very well by Martyn here and if you search at www.britishblades.com you will find LOADS!!!

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=975

 

[Stew]

when I'm working with schoolkids.

I think this might cause you problems for carrying a slip-joint too. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere that any knife in a school is a no go.

 

[Adi007]

That's right Stew:

1. - (1) In section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (arrest without warrant for arrestable offences), in subsection (2), after paragraph (j) there is inserted-

"(k) an offence under section 1(1) of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (prohibition of the carrying of offensive weapons without lawful authority or reasonable excuse);
(l) an offence under section 139(1) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offence of having article with blade or point in public place);
(m) an offence under section 139A(1) or (2) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises)".

 

[Adi007]

Then you have:

(4) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (3) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had the article or weapon in question with him-

(a) for use at work,
(b) for educational purposes,
(c) for religious reasons, or
(d) as part of any national costume.

I guess that "him" also applies to "her" too ... :rolmao: ... or maybe women are just more sensible with blades than men.

 

[Toddy]

See this is my problem, scissors just won't do, therefore I have a legitimate reason for using the knife, BUT, it is one of those areas where as small as I can use effectively without whipping out a monstrous thing that would chop up a red deer with, is the aim. The idea is to make it look like a tool, so that that is how it is perceived by the kids, not as a 'KNIFE' :yikes: In a woman's hand it takes away some of the 'weapon' look anyway and reinforces the mum/vegetables/dinner, etc., sort of thing. I'm supposed to be teaching them 'Country comes to the City' or traditional handcrafts, or indigenous plant uses (I've forgotten what the last ranger/teacher name idea was??) I'm aiming for a smaller knife than my opinel, but one that is just as useful. And there are three of us doing this so we *all* need to re-think our favourite knives. :?:

I know why we have these rules and guidelines, I'm simply trying to do my job and stay as close as I can to still having a useable tool. At this rate all kids are ever going to get shown is , "And this is one I prepared earlier".
<The first person who calls me Delia gets dinner thrown at them >

Thanks for the help,

Toddy

 

[Adi007]

It's a real toughie Toddy ... I'm sure there are many (myself included) that bend the law on a regular basis with regards to this issue - I'm in no way condoning this and really what people choose to do is their own choice. Same goes for good reasons - ultimately it's up to the police or the magistrates to decide if your reason is valid, although where schools are concerned I think that this is important to note:

139A. - (1) Any person who has an article to which section 139 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.

Have you looked at the Spyderco Pride or Pen-Knife ... neither are locking but both technically "legal" with regards to the law.

 

[rapidboy]

I think Opinel make some small fixed blades that should fit the bill if you don't want a folder.

 

[Squidders]

I second the opinel knife choice... cheap, small and inoffensive looking... beware of where you carry the knife. Schools, nightclubs, pubs etc can be a big no-no.

 

[Toddy]

Have you looked at the Spyderco Pride or Pen-Knife ... neither are locking but both technically "legal" with regards to the law.[/QUOTE]


Thanks Adi, Just had a look, I'm tempted but they 'look' mean if you see what I'm getting at. I'm aiming for something tool like rather than blade. I really don't want to carry fine scissors, heavy scissors and pruners and a scraper....too many tools to keep an eye on, and I don't want to work six feet away from the kids behind fencing. I want them to touch, smell, taste? the plants I'm using. I worked with over 4,000 schoolkids last year alone, and this year is going to be busier.
I didn't know Opinel did a fixed blade, I'll have look there too..

Thanks folks :icon_conf

Toddy

 

[Squidders]

I don't think opinel do a fixed blade... the point is that to carry a knife all the time and not require a good reason (not just any reason) it HAS to have a blade 3 inches long or under that folds with no locking method to keep it open.

This is the bottom line i'm affraid.

 

[Toddy]

My opinel has a ring collar that 'locks' it open, which was why I was looking at the very short bladed fixed knives that were obviously just tools.
This is *such* a bugbear (I'm being polite!) I know why we have the laws; I work in some areas where it seems like *every* young man carries knife scars, but this is seriously inhibiting what I do and it's colouring children's perceptions too. Knife = instead of knife = useful tool

The thugs don't even *need* a knife to cause trouble. One young ned tried to mug my brother with a screwdriver. In his usual inimitable fashion little brother said, "What's up son, does yir mammy no' trust y' wi' a breid knife?"
End of thugs' ego for life.

Toddy

 

[Snufkin]

I would have thought that you would have reasonable cause to carry a small fixed blade knife for your work. Perhaps if you make contact with your local police and explain the situation and convince them of the validity of your reasons for needing it i.e. a fixed blade knife being a much safer tool to use, they won't have any problems with it. Then, if for some reason you are challenged you can say " just phone Sgt.xxxxx at yyyy station and he'll vouch for me.

 

[leon-1]

Toddy, is the knife to be carried whilst you are working and for work purposes.

As long as the type of work you are carrying out justifies the use of a knife then I cannot see a problem in what you carry.

 

[Toddy]

Hadn't thought of bothering the police, but it's certainly a good idea. I 'll give it a go.
thanks,
Toddy

 

[Toddy]

Toddy, is the knife to be carried whilst you are working and for work purposes.

As long as the type of work you are carrying out justifies the use of a knife then I cannot see a problem in what you carry.

This is what I'm hoping I'm covered by, just now, but it's been left so grey an area that I could find myself caught out unawares.
Thanks for the advice,
Toddy

 

[rapidboy]

I was in my local cop shop this very evening ,called in on my way home from work wearing my working clothes and i was driving my van.
I had a chat with the desk sargent and no one commented on the new Allan Blade Pack Pal that was on my belt.
It is a tool just like the screwdriver in my pocket and the hammer on my belt loop.
I find most cops are quite down to earth and as long as your reasonably sensible then they will give you no hassle.
I would advise a chat with your local police and then as there are kid's involved a chat with your local education authority.

rb

 

[Lithril]

I was in my local cop shop this very evening ,called in on my way home from work wearing my working clothes and i was driving my van.
I had a chat with the desk sargent and no one commented on the new Allan Blade Pack Pal that was on my belt.
It is a tool just like the screwdriver in my pocket and the hammer on my belt loop.
I find most cops are quite down to earth and as long as your reasonably sensible then they will give you no hassle.
I would advise a chat with your local police and then as there are kid's involved a chat with your local education authority.

rb

I'd second that, give them a yell and explain the situation, see what they come up with.