Winter (Almost Arctic) Clothing Advice Needed!

[Jaan]

Hello there!

I live in Estonia. What it basically means is that we have summers of 20-30 degrees celcius and winters with -25. Then there's also the middle bits - spring and autumn.

This means that any sensible person needs at least 3 sets of highly specialized clothing:

1. Summer stuff - light, thin and cool
2. Winter stuff - very-very warm
3. Spring/Autumn - waterproof and windproof

Well actually spring and autumn split into two too, because in autumn it rains a lot and in the spring the ground is more wet and there's more wind.

Anyways, that is just all to illustrate the problem - lack of knowledge due to too many seasons and lack of funds.

Now to the issue at hand:

I got into bushcraft about 1.5 years ago and last winter was the breaking point for me. I've tried to manage with spring/autumn clothing in the winter, normally putting an extra layer underneath and just winging it. With -25 to -28C in the colder mornings I can manage about 10-15 minutes of waiting the bus, then I start losing feeling in my toes and fingers. This is just not satisfactory for me, because when I think of a situation where I could be stuck in deep drifts for several hours, then I'd be in trouble. And that happens often here!
This autumn I've decided I have enough of feeling cold and want to get proper winter clothes.

I am a weird person because I run very hot in the summer, but I'm absolutely freezing in the winter, especially in my hands and feet.

I need to get proper winter boots and gloves. Also have problems with trousers. Since a thick winter jacket is easy to get, they're all over the place, I have no problems with that at the moment, but find it difficult to pick trousers. Especially when my commute to work involves 3-4km of walking every day. I have an office job so I need to be able to fit in too.

For footwear I was thinking Keens. Been looking at those: http://www.keenfootwear.com/us/en/p...ilhead/alaska boot/potting soil!coffee liquer
The snow gets quite deep and I wouldn't need gaiters. On the other hand with warmer weather my feet could get very hot?
Any other ideas?

As for gloves - I have yet to find gloves that make my hands remotely warm. So suggestions would be welcome.

Would a nice wool baselayer be enough under jeans for everyday wear and under my Fjällräven G-1000 trousers for outdoor fun? I need as much multitasking ability as I can get due to having enough expenses with the multi-season requirements for clothes.

Sorry for the long description/rant, but winter is coming!

 

[sandbender]

A wool baselayer always helps.

Have you looked at using footwraps? Popular up your way I understand.

What is the traditional Estonian outdoor wear like? Maybe you can pick up some ideas from that.

Look at this earlier thread for some ideas.

 

[shaggystu]

mittens work much better than gloves for keeping your hands warm, mittens over gloves is better still

stuart

 

[C_Claycomb]

Mukluks are good when it is very cold.
http://shop.mukluks.com/Mens-Mukluks/departments/24/

I wore a pair of Canadian Army Surplus Mukluks in Canada in March with temperatures going between -15degC at night and +10degC in the day, with about a foot of granular ice everywhere (snow melted and then re-froze, then melted, etc). I kept the wool liner dry by making a foot wrap of polythene which went between the wool and the outer shell. Worked very well indeed, feet warm and comfy. Liners dried each night. The couple of folk with Sorel pack boots weren't so comfy.

Mittens for hands. Check EBay. I bought some of these, but it wasn't cold enough to use them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MITTENS-S...723?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item588bda1a93

There are quite a few options for a shell/liner mitten combination, both traditional and modern materials.

The wool base will help, although I am no fan of jeans. They get cold, don't really block the wind, are stiff, and wet readily. I wonder if you can find any over-trousers for the wind? Tight weave, light weight synthetic?

 

[sandbender]

Have a look through this article on Paul Kirtley's blog, lots of ideas there.

 

[Jaan]

Have a look through this article on Paul Kirtley's blog, lots of ideas there.

Ah yes I have since found Paul Kirtley's blog and read through the mentioned article and it's predecessor.

I have now bought the knee-high Keen boots that I mentioned in my first post, which, combined with wool socks, work very well. I have also invested in Woolpower baselayer top and bottom, which I also like a lot.

As for gloves I have decided to go the Hestra route, but am still gathering some funds. And secondary mittens.

Thanks everyone for the help, I'm a lot warmer now. Also with proper boots my hands don't get as cold as they used to!

 

[bikething]

Mukluks are good when it is very cold.
http://shop.mukluks.com/Mens-Mukluks/departments/24/

I wore a pair of Canadian Army Surplus Mukluks in Canada in March with temperatures going between -15degC at night and +10degC in the day, with about a foot of granular ice everywhere (snow melted and then re-froze, then melted, etc). I kept the wool liner dry by making a foot wrap of polythene which went between the wool and the outer shell. Worked very well indeed, feet warm and comfy. Liners dried each night. The couple of folk with Sorel pack boots weren't so comfy.

I was quite happy in my Sorels . I'd say they're a better option for 'wet snow' conditions. Hoping for dry cold conditions this year to give the mukluks a try-out

Mittens for hands. Check EBay. I bought some of these, but it wasn't cold enough to use them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MITTENS-S...723?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item588bda1a93

There are quite a few options for a shell/liner mitten combination, both traditional and modern materials..

I've used these for all my cold weather trips (Norway/Canada) usually on their own but I have a couple of pairs of wool mittens to enhance the insulation if needed

The wool base will help, although I am no fan of jeans. They get cold, don't really block the wind, are stiff, and wet readily. I wonder if you can find any over-trousers for the wind? Tight weave, light weight synthetic?

Agreed on the Wool baselayer, though may be a bit warm for an office environment. Could you change out into 'normal' clothes when you get to work, and change back for the journey home?

 

[JimmyT]

If funds are tight I'd forget the Hestra route - quality though they are.
I washed up in Sweden for a couple of freezing Winters (not this one - yet!) with temperatures similar to those you mention with a pair of pricey Hestra Guide (or Fält) gloves. They are OK but have lain unused since I found a pair of pile lined Helly Hansen mittens for £3.50 in a second hand store.
Size-up if you buy - you can retract your hand into a ball within the mitt.
Although I tend to pick up such bargains on Tradera (Swedish eBay) you can find something very similar here:
https://www.engineeringagencies.co.uk/section.php/239/1/helly_hansen_accessories
The booties are good too, and if you go back on the site to just Helly Hansen, follow the 'Fiberpile' link to longjohns and base layers.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Fair enough Bikething It was a while ago, and I just recall that it was only Stuart and I who went with the astronaut boot look while other folk wore more conventional boots, of which at least two pairs were pack boots, and several people talked about cold, damp, feet. I too would have thought that the pack boots would be better in wet snow and was surprised that the mukluks did as well as they did with their imporvised vapour barrier. Maybe the answer was that the folk with colder feet didn't have enough space in the boots for free foot movement?

For standing around I did wonder whether some form of long skirt would work. Okay, that sounds bad, but I I started with thinking about the really old fashioned coats and cloaks that reached almost to the ground, then thought about what you would have if you only wrapped the lower half of your body, the bit that the big coat Jaan mentioned wouldn't reach. Finally came around to wondering whether you could get a really cheap sleeping bag, chop off the foot end and shorten it so you have an insulated tube. Daft looking to be sure, but probably pretty good for standing/sitting at a bus stop in deep cold; packs up small too, and goes over more normal office ready/walking trousers.

 

[forestwalker]

Can you find "ski pants", i.e. insulated overpants? Around here they also sell insulated overskirts, but that is a garment I've never seen a man wearing. For city I'd skip the mukluks, use Nokian insulated wellies or Sorrels (or clones). I just wear my normal mittens in winter (suede overmitt + lovikka)

 

[Robbi]

i love the look of those Keen Alaska boots, how are you finding them ?

 

[Jaan]

i love the look of those Keen Alaska boots, how are you finding them ?

Well they are warm. But then again the weather isn't cold either. It has been down to -5C, but not more. For a proper test run I'd wait for -20 to -25 before I give my verdict. But I'm hoping they will be fine for shorter stays out even with regular summer socks.

The quality is really good as well as the leather thickness.

You can see them being worn here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXX_38ED6xg

 

[bikething]

For standing around I did wonder whether some form of long skirt would work. Okay, that sounds bad,

uh-huh

For standing around I'd suggest a pair of Swedish M90 winter overtrousers. Tough, Toasty-warm and have a zip each side from ankle to waist so they're easy to put on and take off.. And you can find them online for about £12 a pair

 

[Robbi]

these look good, waterproof as well which the M90's aren't

http://www.fu-kit.com/product.php/338/german-army-fur-lined-cold-weather-trousers/ba251bfea9b5ea69ae1e7f73b32c33b5

 

[bikething]

these look good, http://www.fu-kit.com/product.php/3...her-trousers/ba251bfea9b5ea69ae1e7f73b32c33b5

I looked at those when hunting for trousers to wear in Norway - they all seemed to be short in the leg for me (I'm 6'1 )

waterproof as well which the M90's aren't

The M90s are cold weather trousers - if it's warm enough for it to be raining instead of snowing then the M90s will be too warm to wear

 

[Robbi]

I looked at those when hunting for trousers to wear in Norway - they all seemed to be short in the leg for me

yep, i thought the same thing but i reckon if they are either tucked inside boots or fastened with the velcro strap at the top of high boots then they should be OK

 

[Jaan]

So today in the morning it was -15 and I took my clothes for a test run.

Woolpower 200g leggings worked fine under Fjällräven Iceland trousers. A bit chilly at first but after a few minutes of walking my legs were nice and warm. I guess if it drops down any lower Fjällräven Barents Winter trousers with an extra lining would be better over the Woolpowers.

As for the Keens - superb. I put on slim summer socks just to see if I would get cold - not a chance. After a few kilometers of walking my feet were a bit sweaty. So the Keen Alaska boot will be saved for -15 and lower, otherwise they are too warm. But the boots solved another problem - my hands were warm too even with thin gloves. Walking in the winter is a joy now. Thanks everyone for the tips!