Wild camping petition

[HERBz]

I was wondering who here had signed up for the petiton to allow wild camping in England.

Here is the website if you havent already signed up
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/wildcamp

the deadline is the 24 of may.

Herbie

 

[Lucyc]

I was wondering whether to post this up.. I have, but for some reason my name's not on it
I suspect a lot of people will be against it actually..

 

[Toadflax]

I think that this could be both a good and a bad idea...and I'm not sure whether to sign it or not. For responsible folk (like I hope most of BCUK are) it sounds a great idea, but it could wreck the sites and the goodwill that responsible people have built up on their 'permissions' if idiots get on there.

Maybe (as I think has been suggested elsewhere) such a suggestion should go alongside a permit system so that you can only wild camp with a paid permit so that if people behave irresponsibly they can be banned. Payment for a wild camping permit should go to funding some sort of 'enforcement' group to help manage wild camping and not into government coffers.


Geoff

 

[TallMikeM]

we regularily have to clear up the detritus of wild camps on the estate. One of the ones I helped clear up was very unpleasant.

 

[Mirius]

Mmmmm, very much in two minds about this. While I love the idea, I think there are too many who will only see themselves being given the right to do what they want, where they want without the responsibility to go with it.

 

[h2o]

Too many idiots will start camping and leaving rubbish all over!!!!

 

[Ben_Hillwalker]

Sadly I am going to say no to the petition.

For every one person who will responsibly enjoy the right to wildcamp there will be nine who abuse it by littering, damaging property and not controlling their fires properly. I prefer to see our landscape untroubled by such things even if it means I am restricted in where and when I can camp. You can't have everything.

The permit idea is fine on paper, but it will be a nightmare to administer and run, and I can't see it paying for itself. And who actually wants to be the person who asks half-a-dozen tree-damaging fence-trashing swearword-shouting lunatics if they could produce their permits? As if police officers, water baliffs and the like don't already have a hard enough time.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Hmmm, a difficult one to call,
As it is currently illegal, then no legislation exists. If it is to become legal, then all sorts of rules and regulations are likely to be debated for years resulting in delays and overcomplication. Theres also a sentence in the blurb which state that ..... no legal action be taken, but this does not mean that civil action cannot be persued by the owner.

On balance I think I'll sign it as a support for the cause but I have reservations as to its outcome.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Tengu]

Nope, Im not really in total agreement either.

Like a friend of mine....

Him "well, the landowner told me to go though the fields, so I went along his farm drive, more convenient, boy was he mad"
Me "perhaps the path was though the fields and not on the drive??"
Him "I have a right to use the drive dont I? the postman goes along the drive, doesnt he?"
Me Attempts to describe difference between legimate use of drive and just wandering around.
Him "I dont care, I just wanted to get to the main road"
Me "maybe you should have politely asked to use the drive, say you were in a hurry?"
Him "Theres no point, people shouldnt be allowed to own the land anyway, I cant afford to buy property, why should a person who has worked hard all their lives and saved their money be able to? Certainly not inherit it!"

(This last sentence was, I will admit, me interpreting what they said, though they actually said the same thing. Tengu is very borgeoise)

 

[hedgepig]

Him "Theres no point, people shouldnt be allowed to own the land anyway, I cant afford to buy property, why should a person who has worked hard all their lives and saved their money be able to? Certainly not inherit it!"

Ah, the great social divide of our time! Lily Allen (who I don't have a huge amount of time for) nailed it when she was commenting on why so many younger people have no motivation to actually learn anything or go out to work - essentially she said that with house prices running away from people faster than they could save up a deposit then people developed a "what's the point?" attitude. This sense if disenfranchisement leads to a sense of disrespect for anyone and anything and all the consequences of that.

One of the consequences is the disrespect for the natural environment and the "its someone else's job to clear up the mess after we have finished" attitude. I'm inclined not to sign the petition because without that basic level of respect for people, animals and nature I think we would see what we do have left destroyed quickly.

I think this is unfortunate because it is only by experiencing nature that people can understand how beautiful it is and learn why we should be trying to live in balance with it.

 

[Tony]

This is a hard one, I can't say if it will be good or not if people can wild camp where they like, I suspect not and I think that it's the responsibility of those that do camp to prove they're responsible and as we are very aware the opposite is most often what's proven.

I think it would be a good idea is certain areas were opened up for wild camping, a fee would be paid but the area would be considerable and the experience cold be very wild. The fees would be to clean up after people who will leave rubbish and burnt areas etc. It would be rather like a huge camping area with little or not amenities other than those provided by nature.

But that's not what the thread is about so apologies for the digression

I really want to sign the petition....but can I with a good conscience

 

[maddave]

I wild camp anyhow, and I think a) if you ask the landowner and b) Be responsible and leave the place as you found it, you get invited back. And if you're up in the hills, most folk are snug in their B&B before dark so you're left to enjoy the sunset on your own anyhow. I don't know if it would be a good idea to allow carte blanche. I think if you're responsible and know how the sheeple mindset works (i.e. climb the hill and be back in town before the pub opens) you won't have many problems anyhow.

 

[Wayland]

I'm in two minds on this one too.

On the one hand I am deeply saddened that in this country, the land of my fathers and their fathers before them, I feel most unwelcome to camp anywhere.

Scotland has it right I think, and most of Scandinavia too, but these places are not without their problems with stuff being dumped and sites left in disgusting condition.

Politically, I have strong opinions about land that was parcelled out after the Norman Conquest and has basically been the privilege of the few ever since. ( And just don't get me started on the Enclosures Act.) On the other hand I can appreciate the fact that if the land had remained in the hands of the common people them it would probably look very different to the way it looks today.

I will probably sign the petition because I feel something has to change, but it will be up to the law makers to decide how it should be done. I just wish I thought they would do a good job of it.

We don't own the land, we hold it in trust for our children and their children's children.

 

[Arth]

unfortunately it's the minority that spoil it for the many. Rubbish will be left for some other person to clear up. Fishing is a little like it I'm forever clearing of fish line that has been left or found it's way around water birds,.when I'm fishing. The same goes for the tree and verges by the side of roads, absolutely shocking!
So I'm going to say no to the petition until as a society we are more responsible for our waste

 

[shep]

I've signed the petition. While I agree with what has been said above and do have concerns, on balance I think it would be a good thing.

Whatever the problems in society, they are not solved by restricting access to something as positive as the outdoors. Even the chump who litters aged 16 may grow into the man who champions the environment and uses it sympathetically.

There is a growing zeitgeist for naturalism and in time this will filter through the skulls of even the most ignorant. Allowing better access to the outdoors by allowing wild-camping will foster this further and do us all good. Maybe not us, maybe not our children, but maybe our children's children will benefit. And if woodlands/moors are being used, they won't become shopping centres.

Just as long as someone clears up after the eediots in the meantime

 

[tommy the cat]

Hard call but to be honest the amount of crap that is left by illegitimate wild camping anyway cant see that if it is legalised it could get much worse. How is Scotland fairing?
To be honest rules are only relevent to those who believe in them so I imagine those people who will leave a mess while wild camping will do so if it (wild camping ) is illegal or not.
So I guess I am in favour of it as it means that I (who has no private permission to camp) will be able to legally and not just for an elitist few who have managed to get private land to camp on. ( I think.)
Dave

 

[Ogri the trog]

This is a hard one, ......

I really want to sign the petition....but can I with a good conscience

I did sign but you've brought up a topic that is close to our hearts.
If we were to "wildcamp" the likelihood is that we'd leave no trace - and hence, all but the very experienced tracker would know of our intrusion.
Those learning the art might leave a little more trace, but their errors would be excuseable.
The miscreant who trashes the area would give cause to someone else having to clear up and allowing mother nature to recover from his misdeeds for a long time after the event.

It boils back to a saying that goes something like "When we do good, no-one remembers. When we do bad, no one forgets!"
A clear case of a minority being capable of spoiling things for the majority.

Ogri the trog

 

[Bushcraft4life]

I second what Ogri said.

 

[Wayland]

As usual though, the very people that do not wild camp because they're not supposed to, are the ones who would actually treat sites with respect.

Around here wild camping is the sole preserve of the lagered up pond life that trash anything that decent people care about.

Making something prohibited doesn't effect the feckless scumwipes who don't give a damn about anything.

 

[TallMikeM]

Making something prohibited doesn't effect the feckless scumwipes who don't give a damn about anything.

true, but it being illegal makes it a whole lot easier when we confront the toe rags up on the estate. At least they can't turn round and say "we ain't doing nuffing illegal, innit".