Wild Boar / Beavers, etc

[mace242]

Following on from the other boar thread I've been thinking...

There is an ever expanding list of animals that are being re-introduced into this country. The way I see it is that this is being driven by people that are overlooking the current eco-system and ignoring the lack of predators for these species.

Is anyone else here worried about this, and that eventually there are going to have to be culls of these species and the uproar that will follow (look at grey squirrels, for instance).

I'm wondering if there should be a call for the establishment of predators such as Wolves, Eurasian Lynx, Bears, etc, to counter the other species. And perhaps allow hunting of some of these introduced species.

What do others think?

 

[locum76]

I think to avoid problems of this kind we shouldn't reintroduce ANY animals at all.

 

[Adze]

Each of these species were hunted to extinction in the UK when there were, perhaps, 8 or 9 million people as a maximum living here. Now there's at least 6 or 7 times as many people, we have road and rail networks partitioning the country into tiny acreages with quite effective lethal barriers to wildlife and, barring some parts of Scotland, no truly wild spaces left.

Even if it were desireable, from any oher perspective than some acquired cultural nostalgia, to reintroduce said species to the UK - where could they be re-introduced where it's not going to be a delayed death sentence for the species released?

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

I dont think we have enough woodland to do this. If you look at were reintroduction has worked, they have large areas of forest/wild land. We dont really have any truely wild places in the UK. So IMO before we start making our big zoo (which is effectivley what it will be acording to the yogurt knitters) we need to re-wild britain, and face it thats not going to happen anytime soon, because we would need "proper" rewilding, imagine scotland being yellowstone park.

Just my opinion, disagree at will


Sam

 

[Shewie]

I'm all for the reintroduction of native species but the one main problem with that is us, humans. Maybe we should look at culling a few humans instead of making the animals suffer ?
You can't introduce predators but it's just not going to happen. We can't have Mrs Bouquet coming to scrapes with a pack of wolves when she's out walking Tiddles in the park one Sunday morning.
I personally don't have a problem with culling a species if it's getting out of control but it's something we need to be clear about before they come here. Radio location beacons would be the sensible approach so we can at least track their movements, if they look to be encroaching on populated areas then steps need to be taken to relocate them.
There's not a lot of room left on this wee island and conflicts will happen, how we deal with those confrontations is key.

I say bring them back but keep the humans under control.

 

[John Fenna]

Cull the humans!
I like that idea!
Many animal species deserve air and room more than some of the human slime around!
The practicalities may be a little complicated than proves feasable though...

 

[Kerne]

Cull the humans!
I like that idea!
Many animal species deserve air and room more than some of the human slime around!
The practicalities may be a little complicated than proves feasable though...

I've got a list we can start with...

 

[mace242]

I've got a list we can start with...

Handily all the ones at the top of my list are already gathered in one place: House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA.....

 

[HillBill]

Who's to say the predators wont be re introduced when there is sufficient prey populations? They were on about bringing the wolves back at some point. I think its a great idea. Our little island is stagnant it needs it. We are trying to right the wrongs been done on this island for a long time. Good on them i say. If people have the occasional run in with a boar then so what thats life. Always has been, it also forces people to show more respect for whats out there which is always a good thing.

 

[dogwood]

Who's to say the predators wont be re introduced when there is sufficient prey populations? They were on about bringing the wolves back at some point. I think its a great idea.

Hillbill, I'm with you 1000%

One of the things that makes me crazy is the irrational fear of predators in our ecosystems and the over hunting of predators. The presence of predators ensures a healthy ecosystem.

Obviously, as a Yank I can't speak in detail about the species reintroduction in the UK. However, I typically get to Britain a couple of times a year and I agree completely with the sentiments that country needs "rewilding."

Any country needs to have wilds to keep the senses sharp and spirits high.

A tamed landscape inevitably results in a tamed people and we all need a bit of wildness in us.

 

[FerlasDave]

I agree with you both. There are too many people looking at the dangers without understanding that this is how the world is and that animals are meant to be a part of our world and we should not have the right to control nature in such a way.

 

[Omegarod]

Hillbill, I'm with you 1000%

One of the things that makes me crazy is the irrational fear of predators in our ecosystems and the over hunting of predators. The presence of predators ensures a healthy ecosystem.

Obviously, as a Yank I can't speak in detail about the species reintroduction in the UK. However, I typically get to Britain a couple of times a year and I agree completely with the sentiments that country needs "rewilding."

Any country needs to have wilds to keep the senses sharp and spirits high.

A tamed landscape inevitably results in a tamed people and we all need a bit of wildness in us.

OK. I can understand what you say and where you are coming from. And in your situation I can agree with you totally. But you are an American and therefore you have a different way of thinking about it than many over here in the UK do.

In America you are allowed to carry a rifle, hand gun, spear, useful knife etc. In the UK we are not. Man is the top predator in the USA. Here in the UK man is the potential top predator, but we are not allowed to hunt. We are not even allowed to carry tools with which to defend ourselves. Therefore the dangerous introduced species (such as boar) can breed to problem proportions. A handful of wild boar were introduced into our local forest (The Forest of Dean) in 2004. They have NO predators. Now there are hundreds of wild boar. Our forest isn't a wilderness. It is a recreational area riddled with tracks, and used by many people. Humans (families just out for a Sunday walk) and their dogs have been attacked by wild boar. That problem can only get worse.

Rod

 

[Ex Member - Sidney Bounty]

It's just a way to make tree huggers feel all warm and cozy of course they don't have the brains to think things through to the end as usual....

 

[mace242]

Who's to say the predators wont be re introduced when there is sufficient prey populations? They were on about bringing the wolves back at some point. I think its a great idea. Our little island is stagnant it needs it. We are trying to right the wrongs been done on this island for a long time. Good on them i say. If people have the occasional run in with a boar then so what thats life. Always has been, it also forces people to show more respect for whats out there which is always a good thing.

The occasional run in with a boar is one thing. The tabloid uproar that'll happen if sombody gets attacked by a wolf would be another. You're spot on with my thoughts though. Predators will _need_ to be introduced if we keep adding prey animals. And I didn't even mention the damace that beavers could start doing if they get lose.

 

[HillBill]

The occasional run in with a boar is one thing. The tabloid uproar that'll happen if sombody gets attacked by a wolf would be another. You're spot on with my thoughts though. Predators will _need_ to be introduced if we keep adding prey animals. And I didn't even mention the damace that beavers could start doing if they get lose.

Thats life mate. Or at least that was life for thousands of years, beavers can be destuctive, especially to our man made water routes. They i think would be best left for now. Its one thing to have the occasional run in with a boar or wolf. Its quite another to let beavers in to divert and change our waterways and lanscapes.

 

[locum76]

There's a previous thread on the subject here:

old thread about this subject.

Regards

Rob

 

[Adze]

Thats life mate. Or at least that was life for thousands of years, beavers can be destuctive, especially to our man made water routes. They i think would be best left for now. Its one thing to have the occasional run in with a boar or wolf. Its quite another to let beavers in to divert and change our waterways and lanscapes.

You're thinking of the North American beaver - the European beaver is nothing like as 'destructive' in it's lifestyle.

Besides... you're too late - they've already been re-introduced in Kent. Circa 2000ish IIRC.

 

[dogwood]

In America you are allowed to carry a rifle, hand gun, spear, useful knife etc. In the UK we are not. Man is the top predator in the USA. Here in the UK man is the potential top predator, but we are not allowed to hunt. We are not even allowed to carry tools with which to defend ourselves.

Rod, certainly things are different on each side of the pond, however consider this: 99% of Americans don't carry weapons when in the woods even though we have predators.

As a people we almost never pack heat in the woods, predators or not. (Some ranchers do for varmit control, but that's another matter.)

Yes, I hunt and yes I own plenty of guns. But nonetheless I spend a lot of time unarmed in woods where there are plenty of bears (badly mannered ones in the Sierras at that) and mountain lions (in our suburbs even) and hogs.

And even though I've got guns I almost never carry a gun to protect myself from predators. And on the *few* occasions when I do carry it's not one of my larger calibers but a .22 revolver for plinking for fun. Not for protection.

Even when I lived in Alaska there were only a couple of occasions when I carried a weapon for protection -- typically when alone and very, very far from civilization in heavy bear country. 90% of the time I wasn't armed. And even then I wasn't too worried about it.

In thousands of trail miles over the years, I've almost never encountered an American carrying firearms when they're not hunting. The one exception would be in heavy bear country where some people might carry bear spray.

The fear of predators is *enormously* over-estimated.

I think that partly this worry gets to my observation about what happens when you live too long in a tamed environment.

Over time anything that seems less tamed is more frightening than it should be because you're not used to it.

When I lived in Arizona, I saw French visitors just freak out when they saw a coyote or a javelina (pecary) in the airport parking lot. Everyone else just glanced at them, smiled and kept moving. No big deal.

When you're used to it you realize you're not the prey for predators. And that's one reason why I think they should be reintroduced to the UK.

If the predator has proper prey, they won't care about people at all. We're too much work

 

[locum76]

There is no room for a pack of top predators in the UK anymore. We need the space for growing food and will need it even more in the future.

Beavers could maybe be used to help the damage done to riparian habitats which has resulted from intensive farming.

Wild boar? Maybe we could have a few but really, there is no room for them either.

They were all hunted to extinction on this island as a result of factors which STILL EXIST, therefore reintroducing them is just asking for trouble.

 

[Adze]

When I lived in Arizona, I saw French visitors just freak out when they saw a coyote or a javelina (pecary) in the airport parking lot. Everyone else just glanced at them, smiled and kept moving. No big deal.

Knowing about as many French people as I know US Americans, I suspect you either saw Parisians (roughly the equivalent of people from Manhattan) or you misunderstood their interest and they were actually exclaiming something to the effect of:

"Damn! That looks tasty!"