Could anyone tell me if there are any societies (other that bushcrafters) 
living a traditional lifestyle who still use the fire piston?
living a traditional lifestyle who still use the fire piston?Who uses the Fire Piston nowadays?
- Thread starter BOD
- Start date
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BOD said:Could anyone tell me if there are any societies (other that bushcrafters)
Hi BOD,
this is the latest fire piston usage by a traditional society I could find on the internet, it is not very specific about the exact year or place though. (from http://www.onagocag.com/piston.html)
In the 1970's, Mr. DeWeese and some others landed in a remote jungle village of the Philippines in a helicopter. The natives were quite interested in this event and all came out to see what was going on. They were dressed "in loin cloths and carrying bows and arrows." But despite this primitive aspect one of their number casually pulled out a firepiston and used it to light a cigarette. Mr. DeWeese was instantly intrigued and set about trying to find something the native might want to trade for it. Communication was hindered by the fact that neither could understand the others language. Finally, after much gesturing, the deal was cinched to the satisfaction of both parties when the native agreed to give it to him for a Zippo lighter and (here's the part I like) two pieces of Hubba Bubba bubble gum.
Tom
oh man, i want to make one of these so bad. do we have a How-To here on BSUK how to make a fire piston?
M
mrsfiremaker
Guest
The absolute latest we have found them with natives was in the late 1980's. We know a guy who was over in SE Asia and met some natives who gave him one as a gift. They did not use them at the time but the knowledge was still with the native elders. It was taken away from him though when he tried to leave the country because it was considered an artifact. As far as a tutorial...Its on my list of tutorials/articles that Darrel and I are writting. He did get deep into a bow article when the bow broke and then the next one got deep long checking from the dry air that we have here in the winter so we are back to square one, but the tutorial for the fire piston I have pretty much typed up. I just need photos and Darrels time to help me touch it/help me with it.
becky
becky
mrsfiremaker said:
Hi Becky,
Thanks for that.
Do you know the name of the native tribe and the country in SE Asia? Could you put me in contact with the guy who got one if you don't know the details?
I am interested in this topic as I have been told about a group who use a fire piston and I am in a position to track them down. I was under the impression that it was a defunct art.
It would be interesting to find out if it is used still.
Ash
M
mrsfiremaker
Guest
There is actually a guy looking into this elsewhere. The best places to look on any of the Islands out there is along the west coasts where travelers from the mainland of Malaysia met tribes along their voyages. Ill send you some more information as soon as I can dig it out of my records.
becky
becky
Heads up Broke,Broke said:
A few of us here have made our own examples, but then those who tinker are forever in awe of a small number of other members whose work is truely superb. My attempts work on occasion, and with degrees of frustration, though nowhere near the success rate of bought in items. They seem to be mechanically very simple, yet I'm missing the final few nuggets of specialist information that will allow me to make good ones. Have a search with "fire piston" as the topic and you'll get more than you bargained for.
Mr & Mrs Firemaker, I really hope I'm not treading on delicate ground here.
ATB
Ogri the trog
M
mrsfiremaker
Guest
Oh, do not worry. We both completely agree about the lack of quality information freely available. Darrel has tried to be so very careful as to not be misunderstood as advertising in his posts. He gets very excited and wants to share his new creations and learning just like everyone else that is making things just for the fun of it, but he has to be careful to keep the respect with both the members and the mods, and hes truly a humble man and doesnt want to look like hes bragging either. We BOTH want to make the information available and are working on it. You search any topic out there and there are beautifully written tutorials free of charge for you to look at. Heck, that is what the bulk of the internet is used for, learning stuff. You could find a bit more information over on Paleo Planet where we have revealed the secrets that really arent secrets at all but rather valuable tips.
Darrel first felt his frustration when he went to make his first fire piston and was determined to share this information when he felt he had mastered their construction and put them to the test. That is why we made the video which he has used for trades of other items he finds cool and to help those who want to figure that out BUT the mere mention of it, since it is an item of sale value, is advertising. He likes all the people here and finds your posts interesting but because he makes everything survival/bushcraft related, he wants to keep the respect of the other members and says little. Besides that he is constantly being criticized and scrutinized by one member who wants only to discredit him, so his first instinct when he sees a fire piston post, or primitive fire anything for that matter, now is to steer clear of it to avoid conflict that puts other members in the middle. That makes it a not so fun forum for all of you. But hey, I dont make fire pistons. Editing his video for countless hours has given me the answers so I can answer them with confidence. Besides, since I dont spend all my time in the shop, I can, LOL!!
Darrel doesnt want to be known as the guy who makes stuff, or the guy who makes the best or most stuff. He wants to be the guy everyone knows as the guy who knows stuff, the teacher who is also in a constant learning curve on something and craves to learn from others. He says, What use is a primitive tool to you, if YOU dont know how to make it and what use is the knowledge if its not passed down to the next generation? and that is his sincere goal. Its just going to take time to get all that stuff down. And that is largely my job, lol. It will get better as the children get older and need less from us.
There is no delicate ground for us, we are open books. A 100% FREE tutorial on how to make a basic fire piston is on its way, just waiting for it to be warm enough to bring the kids outside with us so we can keep on eye on them while we do it. It will be photo intensive, but with this information, you will be able to make a fire piston. If you want it lathed, as long as you have those skills, you will be set with all you need. But BEWARE, once you make one, it becomes addicting! Here is a link to PP where we gave those tips out. http://p081.ezboard.com/Fire-Piston...lanet69529frm65.showMessage?topicID=158.topic There as well you can all see just what Orgi was mentioned, sad it is. Most of the fire piston makers are friends with absolute respect, trading each others fire pistons, sharing ideas, talking new theories, bsing, talking about life, ect. believe it or not. Emil Banks for example, is a master tinkered in many different areas and his knowledge is incredible.
Becky
Darrel first felt his frustration when he went to make his first fire piston and was determined to share this information when he felt he had mastered their construction and put them to the test. That is why we made the video which he has used for trades of other items he finds cool and to help those who want to figure that out BUT the mere mention of it, since it is an item of sale value, is advertising. He likes all the people here and finds your posts interesting but because he makes everything survival/bushcraft related, he wants to keep the respect of the other members and says little. Besides that he is constantly being criticized and scrutinized by one member who wants only to discredit him, so his first instinct when he sees a fire piston post, or primitive fire anything for that matter, now is to steer clear of it to avoid conflict that puts other members in the middle. That makes it a not so fun forum for all of you. But hey, I dont make fire pistons. Editing his video for countless hours has given me the answers so I can answer them with confidence. Besides, since I dont spend all my time in the shop, I can, LOL!!
Darrel doesnt want to be known as the guy who makes stuff, or the guy who makes the best or most stuff. He wants to be the guy everyone knows as the guy who knows stuff, the teacher who is also in a constant learning curve on something and craves to learn from others. He says, What use is a primitive tool to you, if YOU dont know how to make it and what use is the knowledge if its not passed down to the next generation? and that is his sincere goal. Its just going to take time to get all that stuff down. And that is largely my job, lol. It will get better as the children get older and need less from us.
There is no delicate ground for us, we are open books. A 100% FREE tutorial on how to make a basic fire piston is on its way, just waiting for it to be warm enough to bring the kids outside with us so we can keep on eye on them while we do it. It will be photo intensive, but with this information, you will be able to make a fire piston. If you want it lathed, as long as you have those skills, you will be set with all you need. But BEWARE, once you make one, it becomes addicting! Here is a link to PP where we gave those tips out. http://p081.ezboard.com/Fire-Piston...lanet69529frm65.showMessage?topicID=158.topic There as well you can all see just what Orgi was mentioned, sad it is. Most of the fire piston makers are friends with absolute respect, trading each others fire pistons, sharing ideas, talking new theories, bsing, talking about life, ect. believe it or not. Emil Banks for example, is a master tinkered in many different areas and his knowledge is incredible.
Becky
Darrel, Becky,
Your wisdom and itegrity transcends all expectations - I look forward to humbly picking at scraps of your collective ingenuity
:notworthy
Ogri the trog
Your wisdom and itegrity transcends all expectations - I look forward to humbly picking at scraps of your collective ingenuity
:notworthy
Ogri the trog
Becky & Darryl,
thanx for your contributions (and the link). I am eagerly looking forward to your work! I had made myself some kind of tutorial/history-article on the fire piston (already sent it to Broke from post 4) after succesfully experimenting with hardware store material but still haven't succeeded in making a working piston with a drilled bore.
Just like BOD I am very curious if and where there still is tribal usage or knowledge of the fire piston lingering on in some remote corner of Southeast Asia. I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread!
Tom
I found
thanx for your contributions (and the link). I am eagerly looking forward to your work! I had made myself some kind of tutorial/history-article on the fire piston (already sent it to Broke from post 4) after succesfully experimenting with hardware store material but still haven't succeeded in making a working piston with a drilled bore.
Just like BOD I am very curious if and where there still is tribal usage or knowledge of the fire piston lingering on in some remote corner of Southeast Asia. I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread!
Tom
I found
M
mrsfiremaker
Guest
Im glad that you guys were able to find the information useful. The trick with boring is the drill bit and drilling speed. You must have a rock steady drill press that doesnt wobble the bits and can hold your fire piston tight. The boring process is the "secret" but when I wanted to learn, I was successful after one lesson from Darrel. (Not that Im great at lathing yet) Basically, you want to go REAL slow. Use a sharp high quality piloted bit like Darrel mentioned and using just the weight of your finger, oh so slowly bring that drill bit down into the wood. Go this super slow speed until you have dug into it with the actual drill bit ¼ inch or so. Then you can just BARELY increase your speed. Go a 1/4 inch, bring it up all the way, back down a 1/4 more and back up all the way. If you can do this without letting the sawdust build up at all on the bit, your bore should be smooth with minimal cut marks on the sides. The trick is to go slow. Going fast leaves cut marks on the insides and the friction of the sawdust building up creates heat which scorches the inside. Use a flashlight to check bore quality. Also trust the rod. It will tell you if it is tighter or looser in any area. That is actually can be a common problem with a wobbly bit, loose at the top and the bottom of the bore.
Darrel uses a drill bit that is no longer being produced but he can get his smooth enough that he can just run a little bit of steel wool down to pull off any little fuzzies that might be in the bore and it is good to go. He has made them work without any sanding but likes it to be pretty causes he a bit of a perfectionist (ok, that was an understatement.) Then from there, he custom fits every single rod like described on the other site. But any piloted drill bit will work although with slightly lower results, but can they can work. That is the key.
Another fire piston maker just uses a regular old piloted drill bit, leaving 1/8" at the bottom for sealant to greatly reduce errors. This requires more sanding to get it smooth. They make all their rods a single size and rely on the gasket to provide the compression. While this has worked for them, Darrels opinion is a little different. He feels that in time as the gasket compresses, it offers more room for blowby. Traditional models also had a closer fit rod. You can tell the different by the pop is when its pulled from the body. Try both ways and use them equally for a period of time to see which you prefer.
Like Ive said before, fire pistons are the most forgiving of the primitive fire starting methods. Shape, size, bore length, and gasket have all varied for generations before us. And even the tinder with other a dozen known tinders that can be used in them. The only thing they are picky about is the material. That has been the biggest mistake I have seen. People using local woods or simple dowels for their rods without sealing the end with super glue first. There are few natural materials that work but with the right treatment just about anything can be used. Dont let anyone try to tell you otherwise. Fire pistons being hard to make is simply a myth. Fire pistons having to have exact dimensions is just a deterrent. I have no skill in this area but I can do it. But it took a willing and patient teacher. Like most other people, I couldnt have done it based off just hearing them work or from looking at a photo. I needed the instruction. What I like though about both of us knowing how they are made is that we can bring different ways of explaining it to the table. It gives you a couple ways to look at it.
Good luck and keep up trying. Its good to see others out experimenting. Let us all know how it works for you.
Becky
Darrel uses a drill bit that is no longer being produced but he can get his smooth enough that he can just run a little bit of steel wool down to pull off any little fuzzies that might be in the bore and it is good to go. He has made them work without any sanding but likes it to be pretty causes he a bit of a perfectionist (ok, that was an understatement.) Then from there, he custom fits every single rod like described on the other site. But any piloted drill bit will work although with slightly lower results, but can they can work. That is the key.
Another fire piston maker just uses a regular old piloted drill bit, leaving 1/8" at the bottom for sealant to greatly reduce errors. This requires more sanding to get it smooth. They make all their rods a single size and rely on the gasket to provide the compression. While this has worked for them, Darrels opinion is a little different. He feels that in time as the gasket compresses, it offers more room for blowby. Traditional models also had a closer fit rod. You can tell the different by the pop is when its pulled from the body. Try both ways and use them equally for a period of time to see which you prefer.
Like Ive said before, fire pistons are the most forgiving of the primitive fire starting methods. Shape, size, bore length, and gasket have all varied for generations before us. And even the tinder with other a dozen known tinders that can be used in them. The only thing they are picky about is the material. That has been the biggest mistake I have seen. People using local woods or simple dowels for their rods without sealing the end with super glue first. There are few natural materials that work but with the right treatment just about anything can be used. Dont let anyone try to tell you otherwise. Fire pistons being hard to make is simply a myth. Fire pistons having to have exact dimensions is just a deterrent. I have no skill in this area but I can do it. But it took a willing and patient teacher. Like most other people, I couldnt have done it based off just hearing them work or from looking at a photo. I needed the instruction. What I like though about both of us knowing how they are made is that we can bring different ways of explaining it to the table. It gives you a couple ways to look at it.
Good luck and keep up trying. Its good to see others out experimenting. Let us all know how it works for you.
Becky
What a great tutorial. I can't wait to have a go. I'll try the brass tube type first I think, before I try a bored wooden one. I have a question though. With a bored wooden piston, does it matter if the drill bit that you use to drill the cylinder has a conical tip? I know it said that the shaft needs to go right to the bottom of the cylinder, or do you bore out the cylinder right through, and then glue it into a handle?
M
mrsfiremaker
Guest
It doesnt have to be a piloted bit but you will get the best results if you use one. You will find that with other drill bits, you will have more variances in your bore, some you can sand out, others have to be scrapped.
You must leave about ½-3/4 inch (1.25-2 cm) undrilled at the bottom of the cylinder to keep your seal. You would want your length of wood to be about 3 ¾ inches or 9.5cm long. Then drill your hole 3 in. or just over 7.5 cm deep. Your cap is separate and your rod is separate. You glue the cap into your rod after test fitting it to the barrel to ensure proper length. This might help.
The brass one is very easy. I remember Darrel made his first one the same day we filmed him doing it. We filmed the second one. He used all the cheapest, oldest beat up tools in his shop he could gather to make it. The hand drill was the most expensive piece but we were able to do it in one shot, no mistakes, other than a couple of fun outtakes were able to come out of it. And it only cost a few dollars at the hardware store.
Becky (& Darrel)
You must leave about ½-3/4 inch (1.25-2 cm) undrilled at the bottom of the cylinder to keep your seal. You would want your length of wood to be about 3 ¾ inches or 9.5cm long. Then drill your hole 3 in. or just over 7.5 cm deep. Your cap is separate and your rod is separate. You glue the cap into your rod after test fitting it to the barrel to ensure proper length. This might help.
The brass one is very easy. I remember Darrel made his first one the same day we filmed him doing it. We filmed the second one. He used all the cheapest, oldest beat up tools in his shop he could gather to make it. The hand drill was the most expensive piece but we were able to do it in one shot, no mistakes, other than a couple of fun outtakes were able to come out of it. And it only cost a few dollars at the hardware store.
Becky (& Darrel)
