white man lights big fire

[jojo]

Somewhere in one of the threads, there is a quote which I think goes something like this: red man light small fire, sits close, white man light big fire....
I am trying to find it because I would like to carve it onto a plaque. Any idea whose it is and how it goes exactly?????

 

[bikething]

there's a few variations in this thread : http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=15682&page=1&pp=10

HTH
Steve

 

[sxmolloy]

Somewhere in one of the threads, there is a quote which I think goes something like this: red man light small fire, sits close, white man light big fire....
I am trying to find it because I would like to carve it onto a plaque. Any idea whose it is and how it goes exactly?????

I typed it in the bushcraft quotes thread, as mentioned there I heard it at one the meets in the north west. Gaz Miggy (a member on here) said it, or something very simular. Really made me laugh at the time because there was a little argument going at about how much wood to put on the fire...

 

[ilan]

keeps warm chopping wood

 

[wizard]

Here in the USA, I have always heard it as, "Indian builds small fire and stays warm, white man builds large fire and stays warm collecting firewood"
Of course, nowaways we call Indians Native Americans, since they were here first and were fine without all of us colonials! Got to love their successful bushcraft for centuries of life Cheers

 

[Tengu]

They were not fine...they lacked modern technology

such as horses.

 

[Wayland]

They still managed to kick the Vikings out a thousand years ago.

Most indiginous populations got on just fine without us, would we have done so well if we hadn't exploited them I wonder.......

 

[Tengu]

The vikings never had much of a presence and were killed off by climate as much as anything else.

And you can hardly call anyone successful if they are going to be wiped out by germs.

 

[Montivagus]

And you can hardly call anyone successful if they are going to be wiped out by germs.

Like half of Europe by the Black Death? Influenza etc. I think the human race is about to become pretty unsuccessful again on that score.

As for the "saying" though it has some truth in it, I find it pretty dumb in as far as its racism!

 

[dommyracer]

As for the "saying" though it has some truth in it, I find it pretty dumb in as far as its racism!

I think 'racism' is a strong word here. Racial sterotyping, perhaps, but given the context I wouldn't say its 'racist'

 

[jojo]

my, things have drifted a bit I only wanted to find a quote! I have got it now, thanks Steve I'll post some pics when I have done it

 

[Graham_S]

well according to one theory, north america was first colonised by the french.
(well people from that area anyway) who were killed off by the ancestors of the "native americans" when they migrated north.

as i remember there is quite a bit of controversy about this theory amongst anthropologists. its something to do with flintknapping techniques.

 

[Graham_S]

I think 'racism' is a strong word here. Racial sterotyping, perhaps, but given the context I wouldn't say its 'racist'

i agree, it's not even slightly racist.

it could be translated as
"woodsman makes a small fire, stays warm all night by the fireside,
greenhorn makes a big fire, stays warm all night collecting wood"


the saying points to the skills of the native american and uses him as a positive role model for the person lighting the fire.
if anyone is being insulted by the quote, it's the "white man"

 

[Tengu]

bigger fire keep away bears better??

 

[Tadpole]

well according to one theory, north america was first colonised by the french.
(well people from that area anyway) who were killed off by the ancestors of the "native americans" when they migrated north.

as i remember there is quite a bit of controversy about this theory amongst anthropologists. its something to do with flintknapping techniques.

two type of spear point one in America, one in France both made by the same method
The one in the USA dated 17,000 years before Columbus (three were found in the Big bone lick dig in 1807 by General George Rogers Clark) several have been found in Le Ruth on the Vezere River in southwestern France.
the ones found in France date from somewhere between 22,000 to 18,000 years ago. it is unsure if the Clovis people went though Europe and crossed to Amercia via western Europe and the Atlantic , or if they went east through Asia and entered America via a land-bridge, or possibly both in multiple migrations over a very long time period.

 

[OldJimbo]

It'll make for a nice inscription on a plaque and conjures up notions of conservation and skill - as well as visions of some buckskinned figure crouched over a tiny fire. I'm afraid that it's not too close to the truth, though.

 

[bilko]

Have to say that i don't find it in the least bit racist either and for a moment there i was slightly concerned that some thought it was, that moment has passed .
To me it just suggests that the native american has a considerably better understanding of his surroundings than the "White" man in that he uses less wood and energy to stay warm and cook.

Yep i think it would make an excellent plaque, a bite of wisdom.

 

[hanzo]

I heard it as "Indian build small fire, sit close. White man build big fire, sit far away." I am not sure if that is a correct quote, but that is how I heard it.

 

[Tengu]

Come to think of it, I have heard it before.

Cant remember where, I got the impression it was a made up saying.

sort of like all those attributed to Confusicus....

Id still want to keep the bears away, wouldnt you?

 

[Montivagus]

the saying points to the skills of the native american and uses him as a positive role model for the person lighting the fire.
if anyone is being insulted by the quote, it's the "white man"

Of course! Exactly! If the saying were the other way round you couldn't put it up on this website! :swordfigh
Racism is not unidirectional. You don't have to be a "White man" to be racist!