Which watch ?

[Xunil]

For the last five or six years my daily wear watch for work and all outdoors use has been a Seiko SKX007K automatic diver's watch:

I tend to use Tag or Citizen Eco Drive for social wear, but still along the style of the diver's watch:

I am looking for a new daily wear watch to replace my Seiko. The Seiko movement recently failed and, having had it replaced, I have once again started questioning the worth of a watch that loses or gains 15 - 20 seconds per day, no matter how much I like it.

I think there is a certain unintentional snobbery to Seiko ownership that is broadly similar to the general attitude some Apple Mac owners have towards PCs and, as much as I love this style of watch, I have to look seriously at whether it is worth replacing it with the same model that would be subject to gaining or losing 15 - 30 seconds daily unless I spend a chunk of money to have it regulated, which should bring it down to a more acceptable +/-5 seconds or less per day. On balance, my EcoDrive watches have been unbelievably accurate, barely losing or gaining a second or two per month.

I briefly flirted with the idea of a Citizen automatic diver watch that looks very like my current Seiko but at a fraction of the price, but if its movement is no more or less accurate than the Seiko it really doesn't matter how much it costs; the whole point to a time piece is to keep accurate time.

Since this will be a daily knockabout I don't want to spend the sort of money a new Seiko would cost, so, keeping in mind my preference for an analogue diver style watch with a black rubber strap, what are you guys using ?

Price points should be <£75

Any more than that and I will simply put a black strap on one of my EcoDrive watches and downgrade it to daily beater status.

 

[JonathanD]

CWC Brit Issue watch.

 

[Xunil]

The CWC watches blow the budget, just a smidge...



As previously stated if I'm going to be spending that sort of money I will just repurpose one of my existing watches. Makes me sick that my mate's £30 Casio keeps infinitely better time than my Seiko...

 

[JonathanD]

You can pick up a very good mint unissued one for about £70 on ebay.

 

[DavidJT]

I have the same Seiko Diver's watch as you, built like a tank and completely bomb proof, so very happy with it. Amazing value for money IMHO.
Mine very consistently looses 2 mins / week, I.E. about 17 seconds / day. I spoke to a couple of watch specialists about getting it regulated, and they said they thought that 2 mins / week was already very good. I have heard that Rolex / Omega etc are no more accurate, but don't have personal experience of watches at that price level! Anyway, unless you are on a very long trip, somewhere very remote, you can check the watch once / week against radio or mobile phone. If absolute accuracy is prime issue, then quartz is the obvious choice, but personally, got to love an automatic movement.

 

[ged]

For the last five or six years my daily wear watch for work and all outdoors use has been a Seiko SKX007K ... much as I love this style of watch, I have to look seriously at whether it is worth replacing it with the same model that would be subject to gaining or losing 15 - 30 seconds daily unless I spend a chunk of money to have it regulated, which should bring it down to a more acceptable +/-5 seconds or less per day...

This has got to be some kind of a joke, right?

I wouldn't give house room to any watch that gained or lost five or six seconds a month, never mind a day.

My Seiko quartz of thirty years ago used to gain or lose (can't remember which) about half a second a month. It came like that out of the box. I think it was about eighty quid in 1980. I wore it everywhere except on the mat, even while mixing concrete while building a house. I used to wash it with the hosepipe when it got covered in shiment. Eventually after about twenty-five years it finally gave out, and I replaced it with a Casio that cost about a tenner. The Casio still keeps waaaay better time than five seconds a day.

Either you want to know what time it is or you don't. I want to know what time it is for navigation. The stars are doing about 1,000mph, so a few seconds can make quite a big difference to your longitude...

 

[JonathanD]

Rolex are have a tolerance to +6/-4 seconds a day, which is the accuracy needed for chronometer rating. You really can't get a mechanical watch any more accurate than that. Quartz are accurate to about + or - 15 seconds a year in the best (expensive) movements. An average quartz watch is accurate to about 180 seconds a year.

 

[Xunil]

This has got to be some kind of a joke, right?

I wouldn't give house room to any watch that gained or lost five or six seconds a month, never mind a day.

My Seiko quartz of thirty years ago used to gain or lose (can't remember which) about half a second a month. It came like that out of the box. I think it was about eighty quid in 1980. I wore it everywhere except on the mat, even while mixing concrete while building a house. I used to wash it with the hosepipe when it got covered in shiment. Eventually after about twenty-five years it finally gave out, and I replaced it with a Casio that cost about a tenner. The Casio still keeps waaaay better time than five seconds a day.

Either you want to know what time it is or you don't. I want to know what time it is for navigation. The stars are doing about 1,000mph, so a few seconds can make quite a big difference to your longitude...

Unfortunately no, it's not a joke. You probably already know the fundamental differences between a quartz movement and the automatic Seiko discussed here. The automatics are an incredible piece of engineering and if you spend the time (no pun intended) and money to get them professionally regulated you can get into the low single figures of seconds lost/gained per day. Any better than that is certainly not the norm for these watches - they are bomb proof, never require batteries (largely due to the fact that they don't use them ) and generally last for donkeys years but, much as I hate to say it, they aren't accurate time pieces by any stretch of the imagination, which kind of defeats the purpose somewhat...

I can put up with the loss/gain provided I do a regular check every other day or so with one of the worldwide government run time servers (I tend to use the US Navy and cross reference it with one of the online atomic clock sites). I set up a lot of corporate computer networks and some of them are very sensitive and self-contained, ie, no direct links to the outside world. Whether this is physical or through a hived off VLAN is academic - it basically means I have to correctly set the nominated time server within the quarantined network to have all linked servers and workstations correctly synchronised and every rotten time I do this I have to go through all sorts of jiggery pokery to make sure things are as tight as they should be, instead of just being able to glance at my wrist and know that I am within a couple of seconds of true. I use two mobile phones and a netbook linked to online time servers via USB WiFi broadband. Hammer - nut.

My admiration of the bomb-proof engineering of Seiko automatic movements has waned in favour of something that keeps accurate time...



Most folks buy into Seiko automatics in spite of its loss/gain for a whole raft of reasons.

Me ?

I just liked the watch, and now I want something more appropriate to my requirements

 

[im spartacus]

Breitling
No more Need to be said

 

[Lurch]

The automatics are an incredible piece of engineering

Maybe so, but at that kind of inaccuracy they fail the design brief for my money.
I'm always amazed that people will spend so much money on something that does a poorer job of keeping time (prime directive of a timepiece!) than something from the market you could buy for the money you could find under your chair.

 

[Xunil]

Maybe so, but at that kind of inaccuracy they fail the design brief for my money.
I'm always amazed that people will spend so much money on something that does a poorer job of keeping time (prime directive of a timepiece!) than something from the market you could buy for the money you could find under your chair.

In fairness, I assumed when I bought the Seiko that it would be right on the money, most of the time. It wasn't until I started wearing it I that I became enlightened to its flaws. I learned to live with them for a long time because I liked the watch so much.

Your rationale could just as easily be applied to anyone wandering around the great outdoors with a £400 knife, or a that 'must have' GB axe that never seems to get used, or the £150 go-faster boots, or the jacket they just had to have because so-and-so wears one, or...



Do those items of kit guarantee that your average bushcrafter will somehow be a better bushcrafter ?

Can your average bushcrafter do bushcrafty things without them, using alternative and (often) less expensive products ?

Do some of those bushcrafters buy because the advertising, hype, reputation (call it what you will) suggests that they will be investing in kit that is somehow more suitable to their purpose ?

When they make their purchase, is said kit always more suitable to their purpose ?

And so on, and so forth.

Cost, engineering and so on don't necessarily guarantee performance. All consumers and retailers know this, but it doesn't stop the consumers from spending or the retailers from continually offering the consumer items for them to spend on, whether they are fit for purpose or not.

If I knew then what I know now, I can honestly say I would never have bought the Seiko. Since I didn't, I did, and there we are.

Any fool can make a mistake and this one did, obviously

 

[JonathanD]

Breitling
No more Need to be said

Modified ETA movements... nice watches but overhyped as inhouse movements which they are not. Plus a little more than the £75 remit.

 

[DavidJT]

Jonathan - Very interesting info about the accuracy figures, thanks.

I agree with many of the comments above, if you want a cheap accurate watch, buy a quartz.

But as has been said by Xunil, if we all chose our kit by pure function vs. cost alone, nobody would using (or buying) much of the kit that is discussed on here. Compare a nice automatic watch to a beautiful canvas backpack. Possibly not the choice of pure logic, but something with a little soul, that gives pleasure beyond it's function, by being appreciated for it's craft, beauty, and just by putting a smile on your face.

 

[Xunil]

A mate of mine has just suggested I look at the Timex Expedition watches:

http://www.watchshop.com/mens-timex-expedition-rugged-watch-t49831-p99937397.html

http://www.watchshop.com/mens-timex-expedition-rugged-watch-t49618-p99937337.html

Or G-Shock: http://www.thewatchdepartment.co.uk/G-Shock/G-Shock/G-Shock-G-100-1BVMER-watch-(GKF-021)

I've not owned a Timex since I was about 9 years old. Thinking back, that one was a, wait for it, diver style watch

My late father brought it back from either Norway or Sweden for me, which only added to the mystery for a 9 year old. Perhaps that was where it all started...

 

[lostplanet]

The last casio was one of these, busted casing
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001GJI0...de=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B001GJI03I

I've managed to bust most of my g-shocks.
Generally the plastic casing breaks where the strap pin goes. The best watch so far I bought was a Suunto Vector, bit more than you want to spend and to be honest the features don't all work. The battery life is good and with a velcro strap it has lasted well. There maybe better priced suunto around by now and I do like the look of the new core series but far too expensive right now for me.

 

[rik_uk3]

In fairness, I assumed when I bought the Seiko that it would be right on the money, most of the time. It wasn't until I started wearing it I that I became enlightened to its flaws. I learned to live with them for a long time because I liked the watch so much.

Your rationale could just as easily be applied to anyone wandering around the great outdoors with a £400 knife, or a that 'must have' GB axe that never seems to get used, or the £150 go-faster boots, or the jacket they just had to have because so-and-so wears one, or...



Do those items of kit guarantee that your average bushcrafter will somehow be a better bushcrafter ?

Can your average bushcrafter do bushcrafty things without them, using alternative and (often) less expensive products ?

Do some of those bushcrafters buy because the advertising, hype, reputation (call it what you will) suggests that they will be investing in kit that is somehow more suitable to their purpose ?

When they make their purchase, is said kit always more suitable to their purpose ?

And so on, and so forth.

Cost, engineering and so on don't necessarily guarantee performance. All consumers and retailers know this, but it doesn't stop the consumers from spending or the retailers from continually offering the consumer items for them to spend on, whether they are fit for purpose or not.

If I knew then what I know now, I can honestly say I would never have bought the Seiko. Since I didn't, I did, and there we are.

Any fool can make a mistake and this one did, obviously

A very good reply.

Timex Expedition watch's are very good

 

[johnboy]

I have the exact same Seiko and I really like it. It is a good dive watch although I got a bit sick of replacing the rubber straps so I opted for a maratac strap and life has been good since.

I also have a Timex expedition like this one...

http://www.timex.com/Timex-Camper/dp/B0000TIIS2?ie=UTF8&id=Timex%20Camper&field_availability=-1&field_launch-date=-1y&field_browse=2224313011&searchSize=12&searchPage=1&searchNodeID=2224313011&refinementHistory=watch_movement_type%2Csize_code%2Cband_material_type%2Cdial_color%2Cprice&searchRank=salesrank

It's also great inexpensive, water resistant and the indiglo works well again the strap packed a sad and I now use it with a Maratac.

I think for waht they cost the Timex Expeditions offer a lot.

HTH

John

 

[Xunil]

As a compromise until I decide which way to go on this I have ordered an after-market strap to replace the metal band on my Citizen Eco-Drive Infusion:

Charlotte, my three-year-old daughter, recently managed to scratch the face on this watch and that single mark makes it an ideal candidate for 'beater' status.

I am not a fan of metal watch straps/bracelets so I have ordered one rubber and one black Maratac strap to see which I prefer on the Citizen. Thanks John, for reminding me about those straps

I will look more closely at the Timex watches in the flesh some time next week - they have piqued my curiosity and brought back a lot of childhood memories so one will probably be on the cards

 

[susi]

Anyone with the Timex Expedition....does your tick very loudly?

 

[Dave]

Omega 2254.50 & Citizen Tough AP060001E

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