What's with all these crossovers/SUVs?

[Paul_B]

I don't think we're all talking about the same thing. I was highlighting the trend for cars that have a 4x4 look to them but are just a 2 wheel drive car with a different body. Absolutely no better performance in winter than the focus or mondeo they're built on. The only potential benefit is cabin height IMHO. That and the look which is fashionable right now.

To clarify, a Ford kuga is a focus, edge is a mondeo, ecosport is a fiesta. At least underneath the bodywork. That's from a main dealer who was being honest because she'd not get a sale from us. We were just looking and that was very clear from the outset. We were asking about the crossover / suv craze. She basically said that it was just fashion in most cases and most would have been.better off in the ordinary car underneath the suv. Performance was nearly as good as the standard car with these suv versions, her opinion. Also her preference was for normal cars. Although she did say they hardly got any mondeo cars in these days just crossovers/SUVs.

Must admit I've never been one for.fashion. I think my ideal car is a mondeo estate. I wanted one last car but got out voted (one female vote counted for 2, who knew?!). Seriously though we wanted a change so both chose a seat. Auto emotion right? Felt sporty despite being an mpv. BTW we got into the mpv thing after it lost fashionable status. Go your own way just be honest. Crossovers are fashion. Justify them however you like but a focus is underneath your bulky kuga suv, complete with 2 wheel drive. It's a fake!

 

[Stew]

So what should I have bought instead of a c-max?

 

[Alan 13~7]

My parents run an old Honda Civic Estate, and there is more space in that thing than in the Kia Sportage I hired for driving around the US last year. Again, my folks' Civic is really low to the ground and is starting to be a problem for my dad in his 80s.

I love my 19 year old Honda Civic 150,000 on the clock & still Nippy, It passed it's mot 3 weeks ago with only an advisory on a front break pipe, SWIMBO drives a VW Passat & when she comes into my car she falls in & has bother getting out, so with your dad on that one, mine's not an estate but I use mine with the seats folded down lots, I can easily get fence posts for a 6' fence fully in & 12' rails stick out only a little maybe 2' or so... Mostly it's quicker & less hassle to fold the seats & do 2 trips in the Honda than to unload & dig out my home made 6 X 4 trailer that lives in my 14 x 14 garage, all my power tools work benches, wood work tools, table saw & cross cut live IN the trailer & the kids go carts live ON the trailer! Anybody else have a huge garage that is so full of "STUFF" that there is no more room left for their car?

 

[bearbait]

...to unload & dig out my home made 6 X 4 trailer that lives in my 14 x 14 garage, all my power tools work benches, wood work tools, table saw & cross cut live IN the trailer & the kids go carts live ON the trailer! Anybody else have a huge garage that is so full of "STUFF" that there is no more room left for their car?

Never thought that garages were really for cars. As you say: for trailer, for work benches, etc. Mine has, amongst other things, a sink, a freezer, washing machine, several tents, spare dining room table, spare dishwasher, generator, canoe, firewood, ladders, stuff that I haven't managed to take to the tip yet.

Even if I emptied it out the car wouldn't fit!

 

[Janne]

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[Paul_B]

So what should I have bought instead of a c-max?

Whatever you want to, I'm not telling you what to buy. It's just that it's the latest fashion and IMHO offers little in the way of advantage over the base car.model they're based on. However if anyone sees an advantage that.benefits them great. Join the herd!

Of course that last comment is unfair. Especially if you end up.sticking with these crossovers long after the herd has moved on.

Talking of fashion in car types, what will become the next fashionable body style do you think? We've had estates, MPVs and crossovers.

 

[Janne]

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[Stew]

Whatever you want to, I'm not telling you what to buy. It's just that it's the latest fashion and IMHO offers little in the way of advantage over the base car.model they're based on. However if anyone sees an advantage that.benefits them great. Join the herd!

Of course that last comment is unfair. Especially if you end up.sticking with these crossovers long after the herd has moved on.

Talking of fashion in car types, what will become the next fashionable body style do you think? We've had estates, MPVs and crossovers.

If the c-max is based on the focus, I'm glad I "followed the herd".

 

[Duggie Bravo]

I think Rover started the trend for ruggedisation of a normal car with the plastic body trim to make it look like a Talbot Rancho.

I must admit that when I bought mine, I did look at the 2wd version as it was cheaper, but only available in the lower specs.
As for driving in snow, have you seen the you tube of a 2wd And 4wd Kuga driving up an indoor ski slope, shows it really all about the tyres.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Highbinder]

They are easy to step into, and you see better.

Yes this is my view of the fad too. Perhaps also that there is a perception that they do better in the snow, which I could well see as a factor up here in Scotland.

I quite like a high driving position myself, but then that's why I bought a van

 

[Robson Valley]

I'll be buying a new set (4) of Cooper Discover snow tires in September. Fakey "all-seasons" are illegal for the winters here.
Officially, that's October 01 to April 30, if I remember correctly. You get to pay the impound fee until you get real snows put on.
Best mounted on extra rims for quick & easy change-overs.

It's the confidence for that first drive of the day after an overnight snowfall. I sweep off the Burb with a 24" shop floor brush.
Try to get rolling and push the 4x4 button for the engaging solenoid gears.
For decades, I drove without 4x4 and got away with it. I'm old enough now not to want nor to need any hesitation for either power or traction.

What kinds of loads are you hauling? What are the worst of your driving conditions? Trendy comes a distant third here.

 

[santaman2000]

Yeah, there's a difference between a true SUV (4WD) and a "crossover' (2WD with an SUV body style)

Some of you have already pointed out the most obvious advantages; higher seat and view, more room, higher ground clearance, etc. However nobody's mentioned the other reason they're good for families with smaller children; the fact that they're just bigger and heavier and thus have better passenger survivability in crashes. As for me though, I tend to agree with the school of thought that if you want an SUV, get a real one. The crossovers are more about the fad (and marketing) than reality.

Like some others here, I also like station wagons (estate cars) but truth be told, they're darned hard to find nowadays.

 

[Janne]

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[Paul_B]

The SUVs I looked at didn't seem to have any extra clearance than the base car. Could he wrong since the base car versions were buried right around the back of the car lot. Seems dealers are fanning the fad by promoting the fake SUVs.

Ford focus about 1300kg, NCAP 5 star safety rating.

Ford kuga about 1600kg, NCAP 5 star rating.

By my calculation 13 % higher weight but in NCAP ratings there is not much difference in safety if any. I wonder how much of an advantage 300kg is for safety? I doubt it's any safer. NCAP testing is rigorous, however I understood it's comparative in that two cars with the same rating generally has a similar level if safety. It's not just about crashing neither, pedestrian safety is factored in too I believe.

I also read on a newspaper a while back that 4x4s were popular because they're safer. Truth was some were, some were most definitely not. The news piece gave examples but I don't recall. I do think it's the same with SUVs. Perception is they're all safer but they're not in a lot of cases.

 

[Janne]

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[Nomad64]

Physics.

Hit a Kuga with a Defender, and the front parts of the chassis of the Defender will mash it up.

True, a good "big un" should beat a good "little un" but as this test suggests there is a bit more to the physics of vehicle safety than mass and a rigid ladder chassis (and unless the Defender's chassis is galvanised and/or has been regularly Waxoyled, most are not as rigid as their owners would like!), and the reality is that in a collision at speed, the Kuga driver and passengers would be protected by a carefully thought out combination of rigid bits, crumple zones, air bags, tensioned seat belts etc. etc. designed to keep the passenger cell intact and its contents safe, by people with a knowledge of physics which Maurice Wilks or his 1980s successors could only have dreamed of when designing Land Rovers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLLanPwRgio

A Discovery sits on an almost identical chassis to a Defender and although a Renault Espace is bigger than a Ford Kuga, in the decade and a half since the 5th Gear test, all modern cars have got safer and most Defenders just rustier. There is a very good reason why insurers are very reluctant to insure Defenders with 11 or 12 seats!

PS FWIW, an unladen Defender 90 hardtop weighs in at around 1750kgs which is only about 40kgs heavier than the portliest Ford Kuga. I regularly drive a Defender but I know which I'd rather be driving in the event of a major accident!

 

[Janne]

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[tim_n]

Just bought a Nissan Qashqai. Why did I buy it? Nice tall car for a tall driver, good to get out of with my back. Also gets 78mpg. May trade it in for an electric model 3 next year

 

[Nomad64]

I assume a vehicle in a good condition.

If you watch the video, I think it's reasonable to assume that both the Land Rover and Renault were in good condition.

The brutal reality is that in a serious collision between a modern vehicle with a high NCAP rating and one which dates from the 1940s (which has had no material passive safety upgrades since the padded dashtop in the 1970s on the Series III and softer steering wheels sometime in the 1990s), the occupants of the modern vehicle are more likely to walk away.

My 110 has a rollcage and significant amounts of ironmongery bolted onto the front and sides to boost protection in the event of contact with the scenery, wildlife or African minibus taxis but I'm not naive enough to believe that this compensates for the inherent weaknesses of the antiquated design in the event of a collision at significant speed.

 

[Janne]

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