what would you do?

[ilan]

Hope this does not cause a problem as its based on a real situation. a few years back . But was wondering what the best survival stratergy would be ? .
A young English couple on holiday in north america in late October left the hotel on a sunny afternoon for a simple drive in the hired 4x4 dressed only in light clothing . The drive took them for an unplanned trip into the hills along some of the logging trails (About 15miles from the nearest help ) soon the going got very sticky and in trying to turn aroung the 4x4 became stuck to add to there problems the first snows of the year started to fall . Not dressed for the outside and having nothing with them except a few sweets and the normal odds and sods in a handbag no matches. They started the engine every hour to keep warm till in the early hours it ran out of fuel . They decided to walk out at first light Thro snow upto 12" deep . sadly the woman did not make it and died of exposure whilst the man suffered severe frost bite . could they have done better given that they had so little (or so much ) ?

 

[Goose]

The obvious answer is they should have been better prepared, informed someone of their route and always carry at least someway of lighting a fire.

If I WAS stuck in that situation I would have found someway of making a fire, fuel and an electric spark from the vehicle would be pretty easy, this would have been a signal as well as warmth. I may have insulated the vehicle better, using branches leaves etc, but this may have camoflaged it! Suppose filling the vehicle with boughs would help. And I would have probably ripped apart the seats to make some warm clothing, lots of padding and foam in the seats and carpet. Would depend on lots of factors on when or even if I would leave the vehicle.
But I hope I would never find myself in that situation, avoidance is better than a cure, but I have probaly done worse things and just been lucky.

 

[stone]

Since they had very little with them to start with, it would have been best to stay in the vehicle out of the elements, plus the vehicle may be spotted by someone passing by. Unless of course there was a house nearby. They were smart to try and conserve fuel like that though.

It's always sad to hear stories like this though, and I wish more people could be better prepared for these things. Unfortunately people seem to think that the ol' 4x4's are indestructable and carry on no matter what. I have found that with the lack of training our drivers get here, they just end up in the ditch further...

 

[British Red]

Hope this does not cause a problem as its based on a real situation. a few years back . But was wondering what the best survival stratergy would be ? .
A young English couple on holiday in north america in late October left the hotel on a sunny afternoon for a simple drive in the hired 4x4 dressed only in light clothing . The drive took them for an unplanned trip into the hills along some of the logging trails (About 15miles from the nearest help ) soon the going got very sticky and in trying to turn aroung the 4x4 became stuck to add to there problems the first snows of the year started to fall . Not dressed for the outside and having nothing with them except a few sweets and the normal odds and sods in a handbag no matches. They started the engine every hour to keep warm till in the early hours it ran out of fuel . They decided to walk out at first light Thro snow upto 12" deep . sadly the woman did not make it and died of exposure whilst the man suffered severe frost bite . could they have done better given that they had so little (or so much ) ?

Ilan,

Firstly of course, no-one wants to speak ill of the dead, however in terms of learning points....

Well,,,I could start off with the obvious...going out in unfamiliar terrain, without communications gear, inappropriate clothing, no rudimentary kit, not telling anyone where they were going or when they would be back means that they added to risk. It must have been fairly cold for snow to fall so warm gear would have been sensible.

First up I would say the oldest one Stay with the vehicle! A "stuck" 4x4 could be freed by placing branches under the wheels, scraping out the front of the rut blocking the wheels, clearing obstructions if the dif is grounded etc. Or did they offroad without any recovery gear (even a spade)? A jack (esp a Hi lift) could help in extractaing the car if placed on a timber support or used as an improvised winch.

Assuming they were truly mired, if they were on a logging trail, timber should have been abundant....they could have started a fire (off the top of my head, fire bow using a lace, sparks from the battery shorted out with a couple of wires onto some fuel salvaged from the engine, using a headlight lens to make a magnifying glass etc). Get it burning hot and chuck on green boughs and the spare tyre. Most forestry areas treat forest fire pretty seriously..they would have needed a huge signal fire admitedly to be seen 15 miles hence. Snow means water wouldn't be a problem - again could be boiled in a headlight lens. So - not going to die of thirst, cold would be the killer next. First off would be rip up all the carpets etc and fashion extra clothing. Pack the car with tree boughs, bracken etc. and treat the car as a shelter. Open two side doors and build a long fire with a reflector to push heat into the car whn they were buried in the bedding. Next Day trample out SOS, V signs etc.

I'm sure others could add more

H

 

[British Red]

Must learn to type faster...Goose and stone clearly have faster fingers (or more concise answers)

 

[Goose]

Must learn to type faster...Goose and stone clearly have faster fingers (or more concise answers)

Scary how similar our answers are! Great minds I suppose

 

[moko]

Sorry to hear about this couple. Its sad to think that people can die for the lack of some basic bushcraft knowledge. I reckon British Red has just about got it right but, I think that there is one thing missing and thats the right mind set...........the ability to think clearly, be calm and come up with practical plan of action. Without this, it probably would'nt have mattered what equipment they had and lets face it, they had a purpose built shelter and the means of making fire at their finger tips and yet failed to realise it.

 

[running bare]

i never go anywhere without my edk and a firesteel but a little forthought on their behalf would have saved them.shame the girl had to lose her life for others to think of the consequences of lack of basic preparations

 

[-Switch-]

When the fuel ran out I'd have got out of the car - in cold weather it would've acted like a huge refrigirator, attracting and trapping the cold within the steel and glass frame.

I would have cut the upholstery and carpets to form clothes/bedding. To do this I would've used a piece of glass obtained by smashing the rear light cluster - not the front light as they are the brightest and may be needed for signalling, not the windows as they fragment when smashed, leaving you with loads of little glass cubes. If the light clusters where plastic then maybe a mirror from the handbag?
Foam from the seats would make acceptable insulation for clothing.
If a large enough sheet of upholstery could be cut then that would be used with other local materials to improvise a shelter, using the vehicle as a side wall. Spruce bows or similar would be used, if available, for insulation from the cold ground and to stuff into clothes. Jump leads, if avialable, could also be put to use in making a shelter.

Hunger wouldn't be an immediate issue and there is a plentiful supply of snow to be melted and drunk.

The fire could be started by using jump-leads (if available) connected to a battery, and tinder would be tissue paper or sanitary product from the handbag, teased fine to catch the spark. If no leads were available then anything metal to connect the terminals like a jack handle or the metal frame of a detatched and stripped head-rest.


I want to keep the post fairly short and readable so I won't go into the ''stay with the vehicle/walk out'' debate.

 

[Abbe Osram]

Hope this does not cause a problem as its based on a real situation. a few years back . But was wondering what the best survival stratergy would be ? .
A young English couple on holiday in north america in late October left the hotel on a sunny afternoon for a simple drive in the hired 4x4 dressed only in light clothing . The drive took them for an unplanned trip into the hills along some of the logging trails (About 15miles from the nearest help ) soon the going got very sticky and in trying to turn aroung the 4x4 became stuck to add to there problems the first snows of the year started to fall . Not dressed for the outside and having nothing with them except a few sweets and the normal odds and sods in a handbag no matches. They started the engine every hour to keep warm till in the early hours it ran out of fuel . They decided to walk out at first light Thro snow upto 12" deep . sadly the woman did not make it and died of exposure whilst the man suffered severe frost bite . could they have done better given that they had so little (or so much ) ?

I live 150 km over the polar cirlce, when I drive with my family I always have a survival pack and at least one sleeping bag with me, a reindeer fur etc etc BEFORE I drive out. I have even an mobil phone with me too. They should never left off without being prepared for the worst.

Ok, lets say they told someone that they are on the way and the family would wonder what happend to them. So they would have to survive for a night and a day. I would stay in the car, I would keep the engine for a short time running to keep the wife warm until I get the fire going, ripp of the car cloth which are under the roof within the car. The inside under the roof has to be pure metal. Then I would go out and collect some material for a fire. Birchbark, and the moss which are hanging from the trees up here. I would start the fire with the car battery ontop of the car. I would buckle in the the roof and would heat up the inside of the car with a small fire ontop of the car. I switch off the engine and keep the small fire going. The car heats up and the I am protected from the wind too. In that way I would make it through the night and hopefully the family calls in help after a day or two.

cheers
Abbe

 

[British Red]

Love the tip of a fire on the roof - genius!

 

[ilan]

hi love that one too >Must be honest I have debated this around several camp fires and i not sure i would stay inside the car as the metal will conduct heat away fast perhaps a small shelter under the tree branches using the spare tyre to sit on. fire to keep warm then sound the horn for a distress signal+ lights at night as sound travels better I can also understand the mindset of not realising the seriousness of the situation till it was to late so they perhaps would not wish to damage the car , tho rubber mats carpets etc could all come into play plus of course stuffing shirts etc with the natural recources arround for insulation would help

 

[BOD]

Put the spare tyre on the roof and burn it mid morning to attract attention

 

[pierre girard]

Hope this does not cause a problem as its based on a real situation. a few years back . But was wondering what the best survival stratergy would be ? .
A young English couple on holiday in north america in late October left the hotel on a sunny afternoon for a simple drive in the hired 4x4 dressed only in light clothing . The drive took them for an unplanned trip into the hills along some of the logging trails (About 15miles from the nearest help ) soon the going got very sticky and in trying to turn aroung the 4x4 became stuck to add to there problems the first snows of the year started to fall . Not dressed for the outside and having nothing with them except a few sweets and the normal odds and sods in a handbag no matches. They started the engine every hour to keep warm till in the early hours it ran out of fuel . They decided to walk out at first light Thro snow upto 12" deep . sadly the woman did not make it and died of exposure whilst the man suffered severe frost bite . could they have done better given that they had so little (or so much ) ?

Car seats are made of good insulative material. Ripped apart and tied to legs, feet. etc, with cord made from the seat cover, and wire from the seat, and insulation stuffed into jackets, etc. Headliner also gives some material for warmth.

But, most folks never figure the situation is that serious.

 

[yarrow]

I would buckle in the the roof and would heat up the inside of the car with a small fire ontop of the car.

Top tip, definately one to remember! On reading this thread it is abundantly clear that FIRE is the key here. Obvious maybe; a skill all on this forum strive to attain and cherish once learnt. Reminds us all of the importance of a "grab bag" with whatever bits of kit you deem necessary. Sad story though

 

[Doc]

No reason why you shouldn't make fire from sparks, but I might try the car's cigar lighter first.....

 

[BorderReiver]

No reason why you shouldn't make fire from sparks, but I might try the car's cigar lighter first.....

Oooh,don't you just hate it when some clever sod points out the glaringly obvious thing that you just hadn't thought of.

 

[Ahjno]

Oooh,don't you just hate it when some clever sod points out the glaringly obvious thing that you just hadn't thought of.

I would not leave the car, especially not when the sun is down. The car gives lots more shelter and protection than wondering around in the dark and rough weather in light clothing.
A bit like being in the dessert ...

Not want to be a clever sod BR, but what about:

Young couple .....

Body heat?

 

[Abbe Osram]

No reason why you shouldn't make fire from sparks, but I might try the car's cigar lighter first.....

LOL how stupid I am LOL I am happy I didnt say I fire drill it. !!!

cheers
Abbe