I don't agree with the 20% rule.
My first son only weighed 8lb 3oz but that was enough to make the wife whinge for months.
My first son only weighed 8lb 3oz but that was enough to make the wife whinge for months.
What weight can I carry?
- Thread starter Minotaur
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My first son only weighed 8lb 3oz but that was enough to make the wife whinge for months.
Then made both of you whinge for years!
To answer one question, the modern service person 'outside the wire' cannot reduce their individual load below around 39 kilos (86 pounds) without leaving out something that is deemed essential.
Some individuals must add to this the mandatory electronics equipments and associated batteries or medical/commanders packs and this weight can double (the Talib word for a coalition soldier translates as 'donkey').
Suffice to say, the defence boffins and industry are rapidly developing lighter batteries and other novel ways to reduce this burden.
Interestingly, personal loads up to around 5-6 kilos (for typical adults) tend not to change physical performance in timed trials.
I doubt I ever carry more than 20kg more usually about the 15kg with water, but I recalled watching a documentary about the SAS in Oman and the TV crew took a former member back with his son to the location of a particular mission and he mentioned that he'd had to climb near-sheer cliffs carrying over 120lbs of gear, so I hunted for the quote and found this ...
I think that might be excessive by most people's standards, except perhaps TeeDee's self-enforced 4 miles with the same weight.
I think that might be excessive by most people's standards, except perhaps TeeDee's self-enforced 4 miles with the same weight.
IMHO this is a complex question that cannot be answered with the information given!
I have walked with 60kg packs (and on rare occasions walked with packs heavier than me), and have also walked with 7kg packs, but both would have been good quality packs!
I would also totally disagree with the theory on whether walkers with less fat content would carry a pack better than a walker with high fat content. A doctor once explained to me how a body used to carrying more than its ideal weight, obviously copes better.
I would consider important things like:
the pack you use
the gear you carry
How you load your pack
The size of your pack
All before worrying about how much weight you are wanting to carry.
As per above, in the army I would often have a 60kg pack, whereas now, i can go away for 3-4 days with a pack weighing under 8kg.
There are many folks on this site who love heavy gear, and swear by it, by I abandoned heavy stuff a long while back and never regretted it.
Lets say I weigh 90kg, and take 114 double paces per 100 metres (as I do lol), that means I lift (as in each pace) 205,200kg per km (or approx 205 metric tonnes per km)!
Now if I walk even 10km per day, that is roughly 2000 metric tonnes per day in added individual lifts!
So, knowing this, if you then carried a pack of say 15kg instead of 25kg, you would lift nearly 230 metric tonnes less per 10km walk! that is equivalent to over 150 Ford Mondeos!
So, for this reason, look at carrying light weight gear, first and foremost, and then look at the other issues such as loading your pack correctly, and having a correct fitting pack!
25kg in a good pack with a decent hip belt, and chest strap will 'feel' easier to carry than 8kg in a poor pack with no hip belt, and will make you less likely to fall or trip too.
I know many folks on the site love military packs, and although they are very tough (but do you need them to be that tough, unless you are parachuting or throwing them over cliffs or off trucks?), but I am very aware that my Berghaus crusader weighs more empty, than my regular pack does, with my sleeping bag and tent in!!!!
I have walked with 60kg packs (and on rare occasions walked with packs heavier than me), and have also walked with 7kg packs, but both would have been good quality packs!
I would also totally disagree with the theory on whether walkers with less fat content would carry a pack better than a walker with high fat content. A doctor once explained to me how a body used to carrying more than its ideal weight, obviously copes better.
I would consider important things like:
the pack you use
the gear you carry
How you load your pack
The size of your pack
All before worrying about how much weight you are wanting to carry.
As per above, in the army I would often have a 60kg pack, whereas now, i can go away for 3-4 days with a pack weighing under 8kg.
There are many folks on this site who love heavy gear, and swear by it, by I abandoned heavy stuff a long while back and never regretted it.
Lets say I weigh 90kg, and take 114 double paces per 100 metres (as I do lol), that means I lift (as in each pace) 205,200kg per km (or approx 205 metric tonnes per km)!
Now if I walk even 10km per day, that is roughly 2000 metric tonnes per day in added individual lifts!
So, knowing this, if you then carried a pack of say 15kg instead of 25kg, you would lift nearly 230 metric tonnes less per 10km walk! that is equivalent to over 150 Ford Mondeos!
So, for this reason, look at carrying light weight gear, first and foremost, and then look at the other issues such as loading your pack correctly, and having a correct fitting pack!
25kg in a good pack with a decent hip belt, and chest strap will 'feel' easier to carry than 8kg in a poor pack with no hip belt, and will make you less likely to fall or trip too.
I know many folks on the site love military packs, and although they are very tough (but do you need them to be that tough, unless you are parachuting or throwing them over cliffs or off trucks?), but I am very aware that my Berghaus crusader weighs more empty, than my regular pack does, with my sleeping bag and tent in!!!!
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To be honest , I don't think you could move tactically with such a load, or at least I wouldn't/couldn't. My effort was mostly off the back of Michael Ashers book and his musings.
The Holy Grail of truly lightweight backpacking is allegedly a pack weight of 10% of your body weight or less. 15-20% is a reasonable objective.
I would say it is not what you carry but how you carry it. I am no Hercules and I would say 40lb is the upper safe limit for me, even so if I sit down with that on my back I won't be able to stand up again
40lb is really enough for anyone unless they are a hod carrier by day.
I remember the old days of coal delivery, the guys would offload half a ton of house coal in those hundredweight sacks. If I am impressed by that I only have to consider that every pound of coal they delivered I eventually took up three flights of stairs to my flat albeit in smaller loads a bucket at a time. Ah the old days.
These days my back is not what it was because of a lot of unsafe lifting but then I didn't have a lot of choice in the matter. My brother was a postie, never mind what they tell you about the safe limits in practice he was expected to carry more and he lost his job because he refused. Before that he was a builders merchant lifting heaven knows what so when he says his postal sack was overweight I think he knew what he was on about.
40lb is really enough for anyone unless they are a hod carrier by day.
I remember the old days of coal delivery, the guys would offload half a ton of house coal in those hundredweight sacks. If I am impressed by that I only have to consider that every pound of coal they delivered I eventually took up three flights of stairs to my flat albeit in smaller loads a bucket at a time. Ah the old days.
These days my back is not what it was because of a lot of unsafe lifting but then I didn't have a lot of choice in the matter. My brother was a postie, never mind what they tell you about the safe limits in practice he was expected to carry more and he lost his job because he refused. Before that he was a builders merchant lifting heaven knows what so when he says his postal sack was overweight I think he knew what he was on about.
No help on the weight, but many years ago I was talking to an ex S.B.S. member who told me that when they travelled in pairs, 1 small and 1 large, the smaller of the 2 carried the heaviest load, the reason being that the larger person was already carrying more with his own bodyweight.
He also said that the larger one could throw the smaller one over obstacles more easily!!!!
Personally I would go for the minimum that is necessary, whatever that may be for the conditions.
He also said that the larger one could throw the smaller one over obstacles more easily!!!!
Personally I would go for the minimum that is necessary, whatever that may be for the conditions.
One sixth of your body weight or one fifth if you are fit - so I was told. Terribly difficult for me to get everything down to that weight ratio though. I'm pretty close to achieving it for the pack weight but when also adding up weight of clothes, boots, coat and anything in the pockets, I'm way over. None of my calculations include food and water so still working on which 'essentials' to take and what should be left behind. Very tough choices to make ..
I know other people have posted but I really doubt those figures. The figures I heard for the Paras was 120 pounds plus. I do wonder if they have actually added that up right. You start adding ammo and all sorts they carry a lot of weight.
LOL - I have actually pointed out to a h&e bloke that his lifting poster was wrong. I ended up having to sign a form to say I would not sue the company if I damaged my back lifting my way. I was doing Judo three nights a week, picking people half times again my own body weight up.
I think now that the point of the lifting style was this feels wrong, it is too heavy, but if you moved into my position you could lift it fine.
I am actually trying to get an idea of pack weights. Never weighed the packs I carried before, worked out kit list, refined kit list, and carried the bag. Now I am looking at lightweight etc, have started to pay attention, and I am doing some normal traveling with packs, so wondered what I will be able to carry. I am trying modular thinking, so my pack might only be 20 or 30 litres but with the webbing etc it adds up to a normal pack.
I am thinking of taking a trolley, or wheeled suitcase to be honest(For tent more than anything else). There will be a few mile plus walks between types of transport.
I know if I carry over 20Kg, I am not happy, but that is in a day sack, and not my hiking pack.
Can see why tarps popular, light tents are up to 5kg!
Light is -15kg
Ultra is -10kg
Super is -5kg
Can see why they make there own packs, and sleeping kit etc.
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And the more hiking you do, the lighter you get, so you have to keep getting lighter and lighter kit
Minotaur, I would be interested to hear more of the kind of walking you plan to do, and for how long in duration etc.
I feel your comment on tent weight to be a bit of a red herring though, as I would struggle to find a tent weighing 5kg, unless I was part of a big group or using it on Everest base camp etc.
Just as an example, my own pack for backpacking is well under a kilo, my sleeping bag is 800g in its carry bag, and my tent (which can sleep two) weighs 1.7kg, and even that is considered heavy by lightweight walkers.
If I cook using gas and a 250 cylinder, then my gas, cooker and pot weigh 400g, whereas if I use meths they weigh 210g.
Getting weigh lower can be very easy, and usually involves not taking stuff!.
On the other hand, swapping tent pegs for lightweight titanium ones would be another easy way to reduce weight and pack size easily......but there are hundreds of other ways too.
It can come down to whether you feel you need some big fat military style windproof taking up loads of space and weighting 1.5 kilos, or could manage with a lightweight windproof weighing 120 grammes. Similarly folks can ditch their ultra strong but heavy '58 patt water bottles, and use fizzy drinks bottles, which seem flimsy, but actually last nearly as long (think in terms of years)
I feel your comment on tent weight to be a bit of a red herring though, as I would struggle to find a tent weighing 5kg, unless I was part of a big group or using it on Everest base camp etc.
Just as an example, my own pack for backpacking is well under a kilo, my sleeping bag is 800g in its carry bag, and my tent (which can sleep two) weighs 1.7kg, and even that is considered heavy by lightweight walkers.
If I cook using gas and a 250 cylinder, then my gas, cooker and pot weigh 400g, whereas if I use meths they weigh 210g.
Getting weigh lower can be very easy, and usually involves not taking stuff!.
On the other hand, swapping tent pegs for lightweight titanium ones would be another easy way to reduce weight and pack size easily......but there are hundreds of other ways too.
It can come down to whether you feel you need some big fat military style windproof taking up loads of space and weighting 1.5 kilos, or could manage with a lightweight windproof weighing 120 grammes. Similarly folks can ditch their ultra strong but heavy '58 patt water bottles, and use fizzy drinks bottles, which seem flimsy, but actually last nearly as long (think in terms of years)
SimonM
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I've just weighed my overnight gear, complete with 4L of water and food for 1.5 days...it came in at just under 15kg.
I have packed for a "bushy" night out, not a backpacking session...Lighter than I used to carry a few years ago, and I have the capacity to save more weight by losing the Ventile and moleskin and packing paclite goretex & microfleece instead.
Simon
I have packed for a "bushy" night out, not a backpacking session...Lighter than I used to carry a few years ago, and I have the capacity to save more weight by losing the Ventile and moleskin and packing paclite goretex & microfleece instead.
Simon
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If there is a formula I have never heard of it, however if the "short-ish" distance is only couple of miles, why not simply relay your loads? Canoeists will often portage quite heavy loads over a long distance, relaying several packs or wannigans in perhaps 250 meter increments. Using a tumpline can help, see some pics here.
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And the more hiking you do, the lighter you get, so you have to keep getting lighter and lighter kit
That's an interesting point there, I was reading a book by Ranulph Feinnes the other day, and you have to consider the weight of a man hauled sled, vs the fact that the haulers grow lighter and weaker by the day. These guys are superhuman compared to me. I am currently losing weight and a sixth of my weight would be 27 and a half pounds. About the weight of the average folding bicycle.
I think it does very much depend on how the weight is distributed, consider the average weight of a suit of armour in the middle ages, or what the Roman soldier carried, way more than a sixth I am sure and folk were a lot smaller in those days.
Just been thinking on the training idea. If you wanted to see what sort of weight you can carry, why not fill up lots of bottles of water and pack them in your Bergen. If you think after a short period that it is too much, pour some away. Once you reach a comfortable level you'll have a fair idea as to what suits you. As a rule of thumb, i litre of water = 1 kilo. Nothing scientific to back this up, just a thought that popped into my head.
jackcbr.
On first impression your idea sounds OK, but in reality it does not work, and is also not a fair representation of load carrying.
For pure strength training, I did exactly what you suggest, but its also funny that water soon becomes too light!, once you become accustomed to the weight, and you then need to move to bricks, or iron dumbells etc (I still have some of my original bricks all wrapped in towels and taped up to avoid ripping the bergen lol).
The reality of course, is that if you packed your pack solely with water (for training) then you end up with a very low centre of gravity, and will thus need to lean forwards too much, which can not only seriously strain your abdomen, but also slows you down, and hampers breathing on steep uphill stretches. It is also not good for your mental training either IMHO as it would allow you to jettison some or all of your load through tiredness or laziness, which you cannot do with your normal gear!
Last of all, it is not accustoming you to your intended normal load, and so your method of walking or gait will will be wrong, as will your technique for crossing stiles/walls.
I have to say that the above method with bricks/dumbells was used by me for many years on daily 10 mile cross country walk/jogs.......Did it make me fit. Yes it did, but it also left me with some permanent injuries caused by wearing issue boots, which were later to be associated with long term injuries.............Not that it was known when I wore them!
On first impression your idea sounds OK, but in reality it does not work, and is also not a fair representation of load carrying.
For pure strength training, I did exactly what you suggest, but its also funny that water soon becomes too light!, once you become accustomed to the weight, and you then need to move to bricks, or iron dumbells etc (I still have some of my original bricks all wrapped in towels and taped up to avoid ripping the bergen lol).
The reality of course, is that if you packed your pack solely with water (for training) then you end up with a very low centre of gravity, and will thus need to lean forwards too much, which can not only seriously strain your abdomen, but also slows you down, and hampers breathing on steep uphill stretches. It is also not good for your mental training either IMHO as it would allow you to jettison some or all of your load through tiredness or laziness, which you cannot do with your normal gear!
Last of all, it is not accustoming you to your intended normal load, and so your method of walking or gait will will be wrong, as will your technique for crossing stiles/walls.
I have to say that the above method with bricks/dumbells was used by me for many years on daily 10 mile cross country walk/jogs.......Did it make me fit. Yes it did, but it also left me with some permanent injuries caused by wearing issue boots, which were later to be associated with long term injuries.............Not that it was known when I wore them!
Ray, you're bang on re-tent weight, fizzy drinks bottles, etc. A 1.5 ltr lemonade bottle is practically indestructible, but I don't carry water unless I absolutely have to. It never fails to amaze me to see people carrying water in the Scottish hills when the stuff's pouring off the hill in torrents. Why expend more energy than you need to when you can have the pleasure of an unladen stroll.
The downside there is that you will eventually end up drinking from a dirty puddle.
It sounds like an old canvas Black's of Greenock patrol tent you're talking about, Minotaur?
Carrying weight for training purposes and training for carrying weight are entirely different issues. The steepest learning curves occur when there's a price to be paid and the only training needed is to get out the door and do it.
As my grandad would have said, "Let the bairn play wi the knife. He'll learn!"
Cheers.
The downside there is that you will eventually end up drinking from a dirty puddle.
It sounds like an old canvas Black's of Greenock patrol tent you're talking about, Minotaur?
Carrying weight for training purposes and training for carrying weight are entirely different issues. The steepest learning curves occur when there's a price to be paid and the only training needed is to get out the door and do it.
As my grandad would have said, "Let the bairn play wi the knife. He'll learn!"
Cheers.
Hi pango
The fizzy bottles are normally kept outside as they are upright. On the inside of the pack, I will often use a platypus, so that it can be collapsed as it empties, or because it will not have anything in until I stop.
The tent I use at the moment is an Argos Hike Lite (formerly the 'tiger paw'). Although they 'come new' at nearly 2kg, I re work them, and make them stronger, and use an extra four pegs for pitching, but because I use better pegs, and make a few material changes the tents end up lighter.
Stoves follow the same criteria. Why carry an ultra heavy trangia or peak one, when a 6 gramme mini bull stove will do the same job......
As for carrying large amounts of water, another poster on this thread says he will carry 4 litres of water. I did not comment on this, as I have no idea if water would be available where he camped. For my own use, I rarely carry more than 1.5 litres (an instant saving of 2.5 kg in the case quoted), and will use a lightweight water filter/steriliser to obtain extra water as I go.
The fizzy bottles are normally kept outside as they are upright. On the inside of the pack, I will often use a platypus, so that it can be collapsed as it empties, or because it will not have anything in until I stop.
The tent I use at the moment is an Argos Hike Lite (formerly the 'tiger paw'). Although they 'come new' at nearly 2kg, I re work them, and make them stronger, and use an extra four pegs for pitching, but because I use better pegs, and make a few material changes the tents end up lighter.
Stoves follow the same criteria. Why carry an ultra heavy trangia or peak one, when a 6 gramme mini bull stove will do the same job......
As for carrying large amounts of water, another poster on this thread says he will carry 4 litres of water. I did not comment on this, as I have no idea if water would be available where he camped. For my own use, I rarely carry more than 1.5 litres (an instant saving of 2.5 kg in the case quoted), and will use a lightweight water filter/steriliser to obtain extra water as I go.
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I'm reading his biography at the moment. IIRCC on his unsupported crossing with Mike Stroud his sledge was just shy of 500lb, and when he attempted t crossed solo he had two sledges, one ~200lb and one ~350lb and ran them relay.
