What vehicle thread?

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Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
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Well you dolved it. Skinny, (no doubt) knobbly tyres.
Pressure, traction.

Check out the latest models of all large 4x4.
Tyres fit for a racetrack. A bit sand ( or snow like you have now) and you do not move.

I firgot your budget, but what sbout a used Volvo?
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Is it not same? General Motors Company making those leviathans?
General Motors (GM) is the parent company that makes GMC, Chevrolet, Buick, et. al. and used to make Pontiac. Many of those will have similar (near identical) models but they'll be sold as another model name. For example the Pontiac Trans Am was extremely similar to the Chevy Camaro. The Chevy and GMC trucks are also near identical. i.e:
Chevy Silverado = GMC Sierra
Chevy Colorado = GMC Canyon

GMC does indeed make a leviathan similar to the Chevy Suburban. It's the GMC Yukon, but it's not quite as big as the 'burb'. Close, but not quite.

Chevy Suburban www.chevrolet.com/suvs/suburban-large-suv

GMC Yukon www.gmc.com/suvs/yukon-full-size-suv

Generally speaking Chevy appeals more to everydau users while GMC is touted as a heavy duty workhorse. Reality is there's no substantial difference in trim or power.

GM Canada might be badged differently.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
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That is a fact. The GMC Suburban in Canada, the LSE 2500 from 1997, is every bit as big a pig as you can imagine.
It is the HD workhorse with every bell and whistle you like (digital compass in the mirror and all.)

It sure as Hello is not the American Chev baby sister. Seats 9 big people plus your packs & snowshoes. 12 cup holders.
Rear gate heating with switchable controls, 454 cid gas 4sp auto and shift on the fly 4x4.
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
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www.mont-hmg.co.uk
Very good. It does a job there. Not my need. I need a car you can cruise easily and quietly on a motorway carrying a load and family. One that has climate control, decent stereo, cruise control, comfortable seats, practicality, reliability, etc. All as standard and without modding. I think the land rover has really only had tweaks for decades such as engine changes, but basically is the same vehicle I've been in decades ago. It was not a great drive on the road, motorway and winding country road back then and I'll be surprised if it is now.

I think anyone recommending land rover as a family car for day to day use will almost certainly be a fan. They're a smaller version of the apple/iphone fanbois. Completely un-accepting of opposing views or arguments. That's how it feels on a few car threads I've started here. It always becomes a land rovers are great thread. Great for you is the answer but you will be a niche user.

I really see no reason to start getting insulting! All I did was correct a few repeated and, quite frankly, age old biased opinions (some of which you have chosen to repeat above therefor being just as un-accepting of opposing views). To repeat myself, you can buy a standard Defender with all the attributes you claim to want; they have changed a lot more than the engine over 30 years. However, they are noisy above 50 mph (mine cruises nicely at 80 BTW) and they are expensive for what you get.

I agree with Nomad64, I'll back out now :)
 
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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,186
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Cumbria
Well you dolved it. Skinny, (no doubt) knobbly tyres.
Pressure, traction.


I firgot your budget, but what sbout a used Volvo?
So which is best for 4x4 traction, skinny or fat tyres? Say typical UK use. That's mud and rock routes, winter snow, farmer's fields, etc. I'm pretty sure my dad's work defenders had skinny tyres with nothing excessively knobbly. More like deeper winter tread tyres than full on tread like you see on modified defenders with fat tyres.

They still managed a steep slope up the side of a cutting face with deep mud flowing over the bonnet at times. Just as well because steep drop to the passenger's side with a foot leeway for mistakes. Impressed the hell out of me.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,186
1,557
Cumbria
I didn't think I was being insulting. I apologise if my posts come across like that.

I only point out that they are a niche vehicle that suits a small section of the population. It does however have a cult following which like Apple product fans do not readily agree they have limitations as s vehicle. This has resulted in land rover cars being offered as a solution to every car buying thread I've started or read.

As for price vs performance, well if you pay enough you can probably get the performance you want. Defenders have a premium and I for one do not see their benefits the same as many on here. I'm not alone I'm sure.

BTW a guy I used to know was heavily involved in the land rover club over here in the UK. Young lad but IIRC him or his dad was Secretary of some role in the running of the club. A real passionate obsessive about defenders. The kind of guy who could recognise on any defender model, year of manufacture, etc. He obsessed over chassis.numbers, part numbers, everything. His early model, ex military land rover had to have contemporary parts if he could afford it. However he always said he wish he'd gotten into a car that was better to drive, more comfortable, etc. It suited his needs for a hobby but he never pretended it suited his lifestyle outside of the LR world.

As I said I respect it's performance off road, kept me safe on road sites as a kid.
 

srod

Forager
Feb 9, 2017
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argyll
Well I saw "what car thread" and took it as a invitation to talk about my car... as it's a bushcraft forum I guess most people aren't here to talk about cars, hence why you are only going to attract enthusiasts. I leave you to it!
 

Nomad64

Full Member
Nov 21, 2015
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UK
So which is best for 4x4 traction, skinny or fat tyres? Say typical UK use. That's mud and rock routes, winter snow, farmer's fields, etc. I'm pretty sure my dad's work defenders had skinny tyres with nothing excessively knobbly. More like deeper winter tread tyres than full on tread like you see on modified defenders with fat tyres.

They still managed a steep slope up the side of a cutting face with deep mud flowing over the bonnet at times. Just as well because steep drop to the passenger's side with a foot leeway for mistakes. Impressed the hell out of me.

The traction vs flotation debate is probably a subject for a new thread (or different forum) and gives endless scope for “animated discussions” but I’m stuck in front of the fire not going anywhere (and despite stiff competition, can probably bore for Britain on the subject of overland vehicle expedition preparation - although I would kneel at the feet of the guru Tom Sheppard),

http://www.desertwinds.co.uk/expedition_guide_06.html

so here goes!

There is no single right answer;

Tall skinny tyres dig in and give grip at the expense of flotation, great until you sink too far in and ground the diffs or chassis,

The extra wide tyres that are popular aesthetic modifications for Defenders give better flotation but have poorer traction which is why modern high powered SUVs with thin, ultra wide tyres are useless in snow - a few years ago at a Land Rover show I watched a mortified driver sat in his brand new Range Rover stuck with all four wheels turning but going nowhere in the muddy car park while a 2WD MINI cruised effortlessly past him.

The standard steel wheels on utility Defenders take tall skinny tyres which don’t look “cool” but are probably the best compromise for vehicles which might actually go off road or venture out into the snow. The height of the tyre also means that you can lower the pressure to significantly increase the tyres’ “footprint” and gain extra flotation on soft sand, mud etc.

Another drawback of wide tyres is that the loss of traction causes (at least in older vehicles without traction control) wheelspin - if a spinning wheel regains traction suddenly, this can put huge stresses on the transmission and shatter drive shafts, diffs etc. The Pan-American “Darien Gap” expedition Land Rover mounted in the early 1970s to showcase the original Range Rover (they had sent a team to recce the “Five Ashes schoolrun” but decided that was too ambitious!), kept breaking diffs etc. until they realised that the oversized “swamp” tyres they had fitted for the boggy jungle sections were the cause and after reverting to standard tyres the problems ceased.

http://www.range-rover-classic.com/Home/range-rover-darien-gap

My 110 is fitted with HD wheels originally designed for military “Wolf” Defenders which have significantly thicker steel (and weigh a ton), and are better suited to hammering over badly potholed or corrugated roads for hours on end or the different type of hammering meted out by third world tyre changers! They are very slightly wider than standard and let you legally fit 235 85 R16 tyres which gives much greater choice of tyres. I use all terrain or mud terrain tyres but TBH decent road tyres on a Defender are more than adequate for more most situations.

As for brands of tyres, there are always lots of heated discussions on the 4x4 forums between fans of different brands.

More information than you wanted or needed and even if the evil wind and snow doesn’t ease up soon, I am going to have to get out as I am in danger of getting cabin fever! :(
 

srod

Forager
Feb 9, 2017
111
59
argyll
I'm of the tall-skinny tyre school, I run 7.50R16's on 5.5 steel rims. This mainly down to cost - the fashion for wider chunkier tyres and other modifications means there is a good market for "take-off" parts, people buy brand new base-spec Defenders, drive them home and swap the rims and wheels for something more rugged looking, and sell off the old (new) ones. Last tyre change I picked up a set of 5 brand new wheels and tyres for less than the cost of 3 tyres alone from the cheapest source I could find. Downside to the end of production means these take-off bargains will be drying up over time.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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That is a fact. The GMC Suburban in Canada, the LSE 2500 from 1997, is every bit as big a pig as you can imagine.
It is the HD workhorse with every bell and whistle you like (digital compass in the mirror and all.)

It sure as Hello is not the American Chev baby sister. Seats 9 big people plus your packs & snowshoes. 12 cup holders.
Rear gate heating with switchable controls, 454 cid gas 4sp auto and shift on the fly 4x4.
Seating for 9? That sounds exactly like the Chevy Suburban sold here: Cupholders? LOL

Skinny tyres give you more pressure per cm2

In a swamp you need as wide tyres as possible.

It all depends on where you drive!
Wide tires seem to do better on deep sand as well.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
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McBride, BC
Sand and mud, you need flotation as it could be bottomless.

Snow has a bottom. Look at any half ton or 3/4 ton in Canada with a snow plow blade on the front.
I did not know that you could still buy tires than skinny. Only city people ride fat tires in snow.
 

Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
I am not technical enough to know the benefits of having wide, low profile tyres on a car.
The only benefit I see is better grip and cornering under ideal conditions.
Possibly.

The Devil invented low profile tyres.

Look on youtube, search on pre WW2 races. High speed, bad surfaces, skinny tyres.
Of course, they knew how to handle a car.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
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Florida
I am not technical enough to know the benefits of having wide, low profile tyres on a car......

Wider tires spread the weight over a larger area. As Rv inferred, that can keep the vehicle from sinking into the mud or sand. Speed isn't an issue apart from having enough momentum to carry you through some bad spots.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
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McBride, BC
Take a long hard look at the beast called a Tundra Buggy. They float over muskeg.
On the Polar Desert ( yes, it is), they run fast over hard permafrost.

The only practical way to float on snow is with skiis and low pressure tracks such as a snowmobile or a snow cycle.
Slower but unstoppable are the big tractors like the Tucker Sno-Cats.
Used for grooming, plowing mogul fields and back country snow tours.

Nobody here is foolish enough to run fat tires in winter.
Nobody wants to help idiots like that.
 

Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
You guys are using the Swedish Hägglunds tracked all terrain vehicle.
The Bv 206.
My regiment was the test bed for it.

Wide, low tyres look cool. But you do not look cool when you have ripped open a tyre on a pot hole in the tarmsc.
My wife did that on her car.
Because the large rim she did not feel that she had no pressure in a tyre, shredded it, and damaged the rim beyond repair.

I did not blame her for anything.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
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McBride, BC
No, not quite. The Tucker Sno Cat family are built in Medford, Oregon.
They are not a European derivative that I can find.
Might be some "johnny-come-lately" that bought the brand but I doubt it.
Unlike their competitors, Tuckers are engineered to have 4 independent tracks.

The guy who normally does the track setting for the trail heads for the snowmobile crowd
(Belle, Lucille, Renshaw & Castle, locally,) owns at least 3 Tuckers.

I looked. The Hagglunds Bv206 is sold in Canada but I've never seen one in British Columbia, The inaccessible tracks are under the vehicle and no where wide enough to float in powder. No wonder I didn't recognize the name. On hard pack & drifts, I bet they go like snot.

The Tuckers are not very fast but durable to set track, all day long.
 
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Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Your armed forces use the Bv 206. The US too. Being replaced now by everybody with the ‘Bv Beowulf” I think
The tracks were one of the issues we had with the prototypes.
The tracks, the connecting component between the front and rear car, the engine, the rooster tail of snow behing it and that the cabin was too hot.
Tracks slipped off during fast cornering on snow.
The connecting component broke in half in low temp ( under -30 if I recall)
Engine lower part difficult to access ( attaching heating burner)
Sniw rooster tail made it difficult to be dragged on skis behind it
Cabin too hot, driver and codriver could not wear full wintergear.
 
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Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
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McBride, BC
That Bv206 reminds me of yellow citrus fruit beyond the "Best Before" date.

The Tucker models seem to be the vehicle of local preference for Arctic and Antarctic expeditions.
Here, they do all the winter work in the ski resorts.
There's a local Cross-Country ski business that uses Tuckers to take ski parties away up and turn them loose.
With short cuts to get down, it's like having your own custom ski lift.

I can buy replacement 4x4 track sets for my Suburban. Really. I'm neither rich nor stupid, just a head-shaker.
I think I could spend a lot less for a tricked up snowmobile.
But, I don't need to see 150kph/90mph to have a nice day.
 

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