What does a decent first aid kit really need ?

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I've done quite a few F A courses over the years, but somehow, practical though they are, they kind of miss the place with some of our activities.
I mean, so far this year Russ has had two injuries that needed hospital attention, caused by a sickle and an axe :rolleyes: Neither are usual injuries covered in first aid courses, but I'm confident enough to know how to stabilise them until I could get him or anyone else to A & E.

You should have been on the first aid course I was on. We had dummies with wounds that squirted blood and everything. :D :D :D
 

Shambling Shaman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 1, 2006
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www.mindsetcentral.com
Just see this thread, Have not read all the post, but field dressing are good how ever some are very absorbent and can draw blood out so look for the more modern type and not the old MOD ones, There was a sharp rise on server puncher wounds on the hill due to people relining on there walking poles on down hill legs if it snaps one impaled walker lot of MRT had to rethink FAK contents

Sorry if this has been said :)
 

Alex UK

Member
Feb 5, 2009
44
0
Devon
Are there any dos and don'ts to purchasing alcohol gel for this purpose? I normally carry wipes.

Should not be used at first aid level! The wipes that are HSE approved are alcohol free. Using alcohol wipes or alcohol gel would be outside of your FAW training. (If you have more advanced training PM me and I'll discuss it with you).
 

Wilderbeast

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 9, 2008
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Should not be used at first aid level! The wipes that are HSE approved are alcohol free. Using alcohol wipes or alcohol gel would be outside of your FAW training. (If you have more advanced training PM me and I'll discuss it with you).

oh, o.k won't ever do that then, never used alcohol gel for cleaning wounds just got told it would work :rolleyes: :rolleyes: another rumor then!! With the exception of savlon, what else could you use for cleaning wounds??:You_Rock_

also my FA training has always been military style which is actually really useful because they teach you all the things you can do with an FFD
 

Wilderbeast

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 9, 2008
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Should not be used at first aid level! The wipes that are HSE approved are alcohol free. Using alcohol wipes or alcohol gel would be outside of your FAW training. (If you have more advanced training PM me and I'll discuss it with you).

that was an accident waiting to happen ! cheers alex

bloody pub chat grumble grumble :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 

JoyR

Tenderfoot
Jan 31, 2009
72
0
North Devon
Does anyone in the know have pros or cons for one of those self adhesive bandages ? It occurs to me that that would have held the whole thing stable over the hankie until he got to hospital. They stick to themselves, not to the skin, they get used for folks with leg ulcers and the like.

These are actually really quite handy, they don't stick to skin/wounds and don't often twang your hair, which really is the least of your worries! They don't unwind or loosen, which normal bandages can have a habit of doing when applied by novices, especially when the patient then has to trek to safety! Micropore on bandages also has a habit of unsticking if the affected limb (assuming it's a limb being bandaged) is not kept still. One thing to watch out for when applying a self-adhesive bandage is that it's even more important to not applying it too tightly, as it will not loosen barely at all, unlike a normal one. Therefore, hold the bandage with the roll on the outside, and don't pull it round, unroll it around affected area without creating any more tension in the bandage.

Having said all this, a normal bandage will do the trick very well 98% of the time, with just a bit more micropore than normal!
 

Sniper

Native
Aug 3, 2008
1,431
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Saltcoats, Ayrshire
Something that's new to the RNLI kit for which I've not had training yet are tourniquets and Israeli Pressure Dressings. They are very good, I hear.


Note of caution: tourniquets should never under any circumstances be used :nono: by anyone other than those people who have had recent (therefore current) specific training in their use, improper use can cause severe complications :yuck: , and be just as deadly as not using them at all, so if you are not trained in them then leave well alone.
 

shep

Maker
Mar 22, 2007
930
3
Norfolk
Anyone using any blade/axe/knife in a remote location should have at least one of these: http://www.spservices.co.uk/product_info.php/cPath/91_253/products_id/2562 (disclaimer: I have no link with this supplier except as a very happy customer!)

I advise buying at least two, that way you can rip one open and practise with it.

No safety pins required, as you'll see if you practice with one!

This is the optimal gadget for applying pressure to a wound.
496px-Hand.svg.png


It allows pressure directly on the bleeding point with little or no tourniquet effect. There are few circumstances within civilian first-aid when the time can't be taken to use it properly. The purpose of military field dressings is to allow the casualty and medic to keep moving once it's been applied. Something you should not do unless you absolutely have to.

These are actually really quite handy, they don't stick to skin/wounds and don't often twang your hair, which really is the least of your worries! They don't unwind or loosen, which normal bandages can have a habit of doing when applied by novices, especially when the patient then has to trek to safety! Micropore on bandages also has a habit of unsticking if the affected limb (assuming it's a limb being bandaged) is not kept still. One thing to watch out for when applying a self-adhesive bandage is that it's even more important to not applying it too tightly, as it will not loosen barely at all, unlike a normal one. Therefore, hold the bandage with the roll on the outside, and don't pull it round, unroll it around affected area without creating any more tension in the bandage.

Having said all this, a normal bandage will do the trick very well 98% of the time, with just a bit more micropore than normal!

Adhesive bandages are designed to apply pressure, but will do so circumferentially and risk acting like a tourniquet. Direct-pressure wins again I'm afraid. Once the bleeding is stopped or well-controlled, a crepe bandage is best for light pressure to hold padding on.
 

Alex UK

Member
Feb 5, 2009
44
0
Devon
It allows pressure directly on the bleeding point with little or no tourniquet effect. There are few circumstances within civilian first-aid when the time can't be taken to use it properly. The purpose of military field dressings is to allow the casualty and medic to keep moving once it's been applied. Something you should not do unless you absolutely have to.

Adhesive bandages are designed to apply pressure, but will do so circumferentially and risk acting like a tourniquet. Direct-pressure wins again I'm afraid. Once the bleeding is stopped or well-controlled, a crepe bandage is best for light pressure to hold padding on.

Correct. Tourniquets are bad and should never be used unless you have been specifically trained. Most people already take their hands with them, so why bother taking an extra bit of kit?

Israeli bandages are fine if you are on your own and might need to treat yourself, but most of the time that does not happen. Keep it simple guys! A large HSE FA dressing or a No. 4 ambulance dressing is usually best and take up hardly any room. You would be amazed what you can treat with one of those and a triangular bandage. Most of the time there is no need to take much else (unless you have a fetish for it or actually need a proper medic with you!).

Alex
 

Alex UK

Member
Feb 5, 2009
44
0
Devon
Sorry to double post, but if anyone in the South West wants to meet up some time, I'd be happy to go through some medical improvisation techniques with them. Thinking outside the box and confidence can do wonders!

I might also show the 150+ injuries that can be treated with just triangular bandages...
 
H

He' s left the building

Guest
Once the bleeding is stopped or well-controlled, a crepe bandage is best for light pressure to hold padding on.

The dressing in my link above is simply a pad with a crepe bandage attached, no tourniquet effect just light pressure (depending on how tight the crepe is wrapped obviously).

Military forces use quick-clot and similar products and operational soldiers are supplied with two tourniquets as routine (again, obviously with the correct training), I'm not saying we should do the same.

I'm not suggesting anything unusual here, it's just a dressing with a crepe attached. Anyone out in the woods/hills using a blade/axe/knife should have a dressing and a crepe bandage, either separate items as Alex suggests or the military type combined item (as I suggest).

What if you have a careless moment whilst carving and your blade slips deep into your inner arm/thigh, you sever your femoral artery and lose consciousness before you are found? You won't be applying pressure by hand for long?
 

shep

Maker
Mar 22, 2007
930
3
Norfolk
I'm not suggesting anything unusual here, it's just a dressing with a crepe attached. Anyone out in the woods/hills using a blade/axe/knife should have a dressing and a crepe bandage, either separate items as Alex suggests or the military type combined item (as I suggest).

Fair enough. It's just important for the many readers of this thread not to think of any of these combined dressings as a substitute for direct pressure, and that if they are used in an attempt at haemostasis, they will tourniquet the limb. They should be reserved for a wound that is already under control.

What if you have a careless moment whilst carving and your blade slips deep into your inner arm/thigh, you sever your femoral artery and lose consciousness before you are found? You won't be applying pressure by hand for long?

If you're alone and you lose enough blood to pass out (about 40% of your volume, or 2l in an adult male) you are in deep doodoo whatever fancy dressing you have. For the best way to avoid getting to that stage see above.:)
 

Sniper

Native
Aug 3, 2008
1,431
0
Saltcoats, Ayrshire
Sapper1
I hope that the tampon you carry for puncture wounds would not be used for a penetrating chest puncture wound, that would be lethal, and bad for most other penetrating wounds if your intention is to insert it into the wound.

Shep
Again I hope the needle you carry for blisters as you put it, is not to burst or pierce the blister, again this would be a bad thing opening the area up to infection and also reducing the ability for the bodies own healing system to do it's thing. You are quite correct though in the first instance a suitably clean hand (preferably latex gloved though) is the perfect tool for applying direct pressure.

Bigbear
If you have "Quick Clot" you may use it on yourself if you wish to, but must never under any circumstance use it on anyone else, it could have dire consequences. It is used by US field medics and there are trials ongoing in some US hospitals, however it is not used over here and to use it on a third party is asking for serious trouble.

Boops
If you cut your femoral artery in a careless moment as you describe, whilst in a remote area and by yourself or with someone with little or no first aid knowledge or skills the action needed is very simple. Stand up and put your head between your knees and kiss your **** goodbye. Even with a signal for your mobile phone to call the emergency services you just ain't gonna survive it, far too severe a wound. You would be lucky to survive under normal circumstances with that type of wound at home even with the emergency services getting to you within 15 minutes.
 

shep

Maker
Mar 22, 2007
930
3
Norfolk
I'll debate the blister point with you. You're right that the medical hard-and-fast is that a blister roof is in itself a sterile dressing. However, it also goes that if a blister impairs movement of a finger etc. it gets deroofed and dressed.

Out and about, I find that if I don't deflate blisters, the top just gets ripped off anyway. So if one's in the way (and going to get more friction) I decompress them.

I use a technique which was taught me by my Dad that I've never seen in any of my subsequent training! Clean the skin with alcohol and enter to one side of the blister and come up under it. You can decompress it without rupturing the nice cover. Then apply a dressing that presses on it a little. Sometimes they stay down and heal very quickly, occasionally they reaccumulate. I've never had an infection.

Caveat. While most of my advice comes from proper training and experience, this last bit is, I confess, purely anecdotal.
 

Sniper

Native
Aug 3, 2008
1,431
0
Saltcoats, Ayrshire
The fluid inside the blister is the body's very own medication, and should be kept where it is needed, at the site of the damage ie blister. If you burst it even though you have cleansed the skin you have still made an opening even a small one where germs, which are much smaller than a needle point, can get in. A common place for blisters is the heel and by simply applying a dressing, any friction to the skin which is what made it in the first place, is alleviated. The technique shown to you by your dad but you have never seen since is quite simply not the correct treatment for blisters, it's that simple, he may well have shown you his way of dealing with them, but if it involves bursting them or piercing them then it is not the correct treatment for them I can assure you. Many things have been taught in days gone by for example treating a burn by putting butter on it, but that is probably about the worst thing you can do, but for many years a helluva lot of folks thought this was the correct way cos their mother or granny had taught them this. Ask any doctor, medic, or check in any first aid manual for the correct way to deal with blisters, you will see I am correct, regardless of what you have been shown in the past and by whom, and I mean no disrespect to your dad or anyone else. Has your proper training, as you put it, ever shown you to treat a blister by puncturing it, no by your own admission, so please accept that what I am saying is right, I can assure you it is absolutely correct and valid.
 

Graham_S

Squirrely!
Feb 27, 2005
4,041
65
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Saudi Arabia
My first aid kit has a small mirror in it. on the way to the moot a couple of years ago I got a wound on my forehead. how do you check the wound you can't see?
Also a petzl e+lite lives in there. Chances are when the worst happens it'll happen at the worst time, and I don't want to be scrabbling around looking for a torch and my first aid kit.
 

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