There is no portable medical kit capable of fixing that. You'd need a tourniquet, a sat phone, GPS and a handful of morphine jabs.
What does a decent first aid kit really need ?
- Thread starter Toddy
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
There is no portable medical kit capable of fixing that. You'd need a tourniquet, a sat phone, GPS and a handful of morphine jabs.
If possible, and if you MUST use glue, try and get hold of something like Dermabond, its the pukka stuff
Shep, watch out with needles for nail haematomas! The best trick is to heat a paperclip and press it through the nail; the blood will immediately cool off the paperclip and because it's blunt it will not pierce the oh so sensible skin under your nails.
True and a good point, the paperclip works well and A+Es have a gadget which is a cross between a paperclip and a soldering iron. I'm just obsessed with everything being multi-purpose when it comes to my recreation kit!
It's easy enough with a needle. You use a drilling action and stop as soon as you hit paydirt. I haven't hurt anyone yet...
i did notice on the cyanoacrylate MSDS sheet that it polymerizes flesh! which could obviously be horrible, but maybe it would help to cauterize a serious wound?
i think i'll look out for the pukka stuff though.
I think this is a must have:
http://www.dentanurse.com/
Unfortunatley I've had to use this kit 3 or 4 times over the years and it really has saved the day by returning things almost to normality until you get to a dentist. I've replaced fillings, fixed collapsed crowns (during last years Loch Chon meet up I collapsed a crown and had to use it then!). Forget the travel kits with syringes unless you really are going abroad then take this kit too as this is better!
I remember my old kayak instructors first aid kit on multi day excursions!! it was a strip of paracetamol!!
Mmm well I am first aid trained and I just take along a big cotton thinggy for wrapping up arms legs and head! a few plasters and iodine both for water and wounds. and paracetamol..Im working on the assumption that with a mobile phone and the closeness of help where I go that it is not a problem. If I was to go further afield I would check what I took with me and proabably add a few more bits and pieces.. but I try to 'K I S S'..
Mmm well I am first aid trained and I just take along a big cotton thinggy for wrapping up arms legs and head! a few plasters and iodine both for water and wounds. and paracetamol..Im working on the assumption that with a mobile phone and the closeness of help where I go that it is not a problem. If I was to go further afield I would check what I took with me and proabably add a few more bits and pieces.. but I try to 'K I S S'..
I am quite amazed at the amount of stuff being carried!
Unfortunately, the first thing we need to specify is the purpose of the first aid kit: for the car? the pocket? the house?
If we assume 'the pocket', we need to keep things small otherwise we are very unlikely to carry it at all. And, as we all know, it's no use if we leave it at home. I would argue that the following are essential and you can add stuff as you wish, remembering to keep it small:
Shell dressing (large pad of cotton wool, strips of material, safety pins all included)
Various plasters
Pencil and paper (gaffa tape wrapped around pencil)
And that's it! Remember that this is a FIRST AID KIT - to administer first aid until casualty can get to hospital and see someone who knows what they are doing.
The military shell dressing can be used for small as well as large wounds (cut/tear it to size), the safety pins can be used for improvising a sling with the casualty's own clothes, the strips of material connected to the pad can be removed and used for other stuff (small bandages, splint ties, etc)
Plasters are great for nicks and cuts. You don't need antiseptics now - just flush with the water that you're carrying or use a salt solution with your cooking salt that you've probably got in our bag somewhere (nick a sachet from a cafe!).
Burns? Cool water.
Blisters? Gaffa tape.
Etc, etc. By improvising
We talk a lot about carrying knowledge instead of kit - do a St Johns course and learn the basics.
I have a kit in the car which has all the extras but for wandering around, keep it really simple.
If we are starting to look at expedition first aid kits, we're getting into a whole different ball game...
Unfortunately, the first thing we need to specify is the purpose of the first aid kit: for the car? the pocket? the house?
If we assume 'the pocket', we need to keep things small otherwise we are very unlikely to carry it at all. And, as we all know, it's no use if we leave it at home. I would argue that the following are essential and you can add stuff as you wish, remembering to keep it small:
Shell dressing (large pad of cotton wool, strips of material, safety pins all included)
Various plasters
Pencil and paper (gaffa tape wrapped around pencil)
And that's it! Remember that this is a FIRST AID KIT - to administer first aid until casualty can get to hospital and see someone who knows what they are doing.
The military shell dressing can be used for small as well as large wounds (cut/tear it to size), the safety pins can be used for improvising a sling with the casualty's own clothes, the strips of material connected to the pad can be removed and used for other stuff (small bandages, splint ties, etc)
Plasters are great for nicks and cuts. You don't need antiseptics now - just flush with the water that you're carrying or use a salt solution with your cooking salt that you've probably got in our bag somewhere (nick a sachet from a cafe!).
Burns? Cool water.
Blisters? Gaffa tape.
Etc, etc. By improvising
We talk a lot about carrying knowledge instead of kit - do a St Johns course and learn the basics.
I have a kit in the car which has all the extras but for wandering around, keep it really simple.
If we are starting to look at expedition first aid kits, we're getting into a whole different ball game...
Looking on the firstaid.com site, they list one of the most important items in a FAK is a mobile phone, I for one agree with them.
One major drawback to carrying too much gear is panic/anxiety, all first aiders, Nurses, Doctors will go through some level of panic, with experience and training these emotions are controlled, but for some, having a mass of kit in front of them could lead to confusion, and you can't afford to be confused in a first aid situation; you need to be keeping things in a very orderly fashion and above all, simple
My big worry when I read threads like this is the lack of training and the kit people are carrying which is very often way over the top
Do the training
Practise what you have been taught on a regular basis
Keep your kit as simple as possible
Don't think you know it all, trust me, you don't
Update your skills/knowledge as and when you can
Remember, your a first aider, not George Clooney from ER
One major drawback to carrying too much gear is panic/anxiety, all first aiders, Nurses, Doctors will go through some level of panic, with experience and training these emotions are controlled, but for some, having a mass of kit in front of them could lead to confusion, and you can't afford to be confused in a first aid situation; you need to be keeping things in a very orderly fashion and above all, simple
My big worry when I read threads like this is the lack of training and the kit people are carrying which is very often way over the top
Do the training
Practise what you have been taught on a regular basis
Keep your kit as simple as possible
Don't think you know it all, trust me, you don't
Update your skills/knowledge as and when you can
Remember, your a first aider, not George Clooney from ER
Hence the reasoning for the clean cotton handkerchief and a sock fast clean and always at hand simple Ive had enough nicks and cuts to not panic and just patch it up till some one more savvy than me can take a proper look at it
I should point out i always carry two handkerchiefs one for my nose and one is my first aid kit
Cheers Russ
I should point out i always carry two handkerchiefs one for my nose and one is my first aid kit
Cheers Russ
Yes you can - they are not sterile, but they do work very well. Don't go for any that are perfumed or anything though! Also, be aware of how much liquid they can absorb - remember to be on the lookout for shock, it is easily missed until too late if you can't see a pudle of blood!
am i the only one to carry an FFD? heh, odd but incredibly useful. i have a small one thats always in a us Compass/alice pouch. it can be webbed anywhere.
brill for large cuts or monster bleeders and of course can be tied off. i also keep a space blanket in the same pouch because those things are fantastic.
also Eye drops, the type you can squeeze the lot out if need be (eyewash)
anybody use that spray on plaster stuff for small cuts? is it any good?
brill for large cuts or monster bleeders and of course can be tied off. i also keep a space blanket in the same pouch because those things are fantastic.
also Eye drops, the type you can squeeze the lot out if need be (eyewash)
anybody use that spray on plaster stuff for small cuts? is it any good?
I agree entirely with Rik- mostly it is what is in your head, not your FAK that will make a difference.
I carry very little- plasters and compeed for comfort, cling film or a wound dressing for more serious stuff. Those special tweezers for sheep ticks, they work !
I have however bought some Quick Clot ( would put in a link but I do not know how- you can find it via any search engine) from Cabelas in the US as I could not find a UK supplier. It occurred to me that serious blood loss was actually relatively likely to occur ( I hope not) and one of these is light, takes up little space and might make a difference. I hope it never gets used, like all First Aid.
Think about what might happen, and what you need to do to keep someone alive till the cavalry arrive- as in most UK situations you will be waiting for them, and you simply have to keep the patient alive and as happy as can be until you hand over to the experts.
Bigbear
I carry very little- plasters and compeed for comfort, cling film or a wound dressing for more serious stuff. Those special tweezers for sheep ticks, they work !
I have however bought some Quick Clot ( would put in a link but I do not know how- you can find it via any search engine) from Cabelas in the US as I could not find a UK supplier. It occurred to me that serious blood loss was actually relatively likely to occur ( I hope not) and one of these is light, takes up little space and might make a difference. I hope it never gets used, like all First Aid.
Think about what might happen, and what you need to do to keep someone alive till the cavalry arrive- as in most UK situations you will be waiting for them, and you simply have to keep the patient alive and as happy as can be until you hand over to the experts.
Bigbear
Frankly, I'm amazed at some of the advice here so I'm going to go for a big old post and then we'll all have a pint at the end.
First and foremost, first-aid is a misused term. Strictly, it's 'Simple emergency medical care procedures intended for lay rescuers to perform before emergency medical professionals are available.' This basically means "make sure they don't die". If all you want to do is make sure someone doesn't die, then sure, carry a few dressings, a yard of muslin and a mobile phone. Take a look at a WWII first aid kit, it really had naff all in it, even though the chances of a traumatic injury were far higher than we have out in the wilds. This is real "patch 'em up and ship 'em out" territory.
The next level up from that is "make sure they don't die and have the best chance of making a full recovery". Sure you can treat a burn with cold water, but if you've just slipped over and put your hand in a fire and you run that in a stream for a bit, then not only do you run the risk of getting lovely bacteria in your wound, but that wound is not going to heal anything like as good as if you applied a burn dressing or burn gel. Application of anti-septics and the use of gloved or at least clean hands would be awfully useful here too. If you want to cut plasters or tape with your knife that you've been using to cut all manner of stuff, then you go ahead, I'm going to carry scissors. I carry steristrips, because they give the best chance of a deep cut healing back to normal. I always carry a survival bag. My mate (mountain rescue) also carries a sleeping bag and bothi, even on a day trek.
This is basically where the RNLI first aid stops and we carry a first aid kit the size of a suitcase and are trained to use it. Yes, it's so big because we could come up against all sorts of problems, but we really are into keeping people alive and getting them to hospital or helicopters with the best chance of survival, not about trying to treat them at sea.
OK, so that's first aid, but in reality what we as campers, hikers, trekker and bushscrafters carry are 'medical kits'. We're not merely concerned with keeping people alive, we're interested in treating what we can. We don't want to have to take people to hospital or home if we can help it. If you've ever had a minor strain then you'll know it's actually quite painful unless you're strapped up when it's really quite ok. A good ankle strapping allowed me to finish a charity walk. I would have been gutted without that opportunity. Cuts, stings, strains, blisters, blood blisters, sun burn, ticks, splinters, minor pain and inflammation and other injuries can all be managed with very light weight kit. Yes, you can walk in pain for five days on a splinter and it go septic when you get home, but I'll carry tweezers. Yes, I can use my left thumb because my right one has blood under the nail, but a paper clip will sort that out. Yes, I can guess if someone has a fever, but a head strip thermometer weighs nothing. I'll take immodium rather than battle with diarrhoea and consequential dehydration.
Further along the line are things that just plain make people comfortable. If I'm trekking, I don't like guts ache, so I carry antacids. I don't like dry lips, so I carry lip balm and I don't like pain, so I carry pain killers.
I choose my first aid kit contents based on what I'm going to be doing, how long I'm going to be doing it for, the environment, the weather, how far I am from civilisation, who else I've got to look after and what level of care I want to give* and what I'm qualified to administer**.
* The level of care I want to give is generally. Don't die. Don't call the emergency services unless I have to, especially if they are voluntary. Get myself home (or back to civilisation or camp) if I can. Don't go home unless I need to. Be comfortable whilst I'm out. But equally, don't carry so much that I can't carry something else useful which I'm more likely to need or want. I don't carry a neck brace, for instance.
** Corollary: always take a nurse
There is a very big difference between a pocket kit for a day hike in along the coast path and a five day camping trip on Dartmoor with a group of school kids. I don't light fires when I'm hiking, so I don't carry burn stuff. None of the kids have angina, so I don't carry glyceryl trinitrate spray.
There is also a difference between what you have in a day sack and what you have at camp. You don't need to carry all of it all the time.
So the answer to the question "what belongs in first decent first aid kit" is all about what could go wrong and how much you want to let that spoil your trip. And the mere fact that it was asked with the qualifier "decent" implies it wants to be somewhat more than emergency patch up.
Remember, if you're in a party and someone needs to go home, they'll be taking someone perfectly healthy with them and if that can be avoided, then all the better for two people.
And finally, just because you have not injured yourself before and you consider yourself very careful, doesn't mean it won't happen to you or someone you're with. That is the nature of accidents. It can be high impact stuff, even if it's very low risk.
Now, who fancies a pint?
First and foremost, first-aid is a misused term. Strictly, it's 'Simple emergency medical care procedures intended for lay rescuers to perform before emergency medical professionals are available.' This basically means "make sure they don't die". If all you want to do is make sure someone doesn't die, then sure, carry a few dressings, a yard of muslin and a mobile phone. Take a look at a WWII first aid kit, it really had naff all in it, even though the chances of a traumatic injury were far higher than we have out in the wilds. This is real "patch 'em up and ship 'em out" territory.
The next level up from that is "make sure they don't die and have the best chance of making a full recovery". Sure you can treat a burn with cold water, but if you've just slipped over and put your hand in a fire and you run that in a stream for a bit, then not only do you run the risk of getting lovely bacteria in your wound, but that wound is not going to heal anything like as good as if you applied a burn dressing or burn gel. Application of anti-septics and the use of gloved or at least clean hands would be awfully useful here too. If you want to cut plasters or tape with your knife that you've been using to cut all manner of stuff, then you go ahead, I'm going to carry scissors. I carry steristrips, because they give the best chance of a deep cut healing back to normal. I always carry a survival bag. My mate (mountain rescue) also carries a sleeping bag and bothi, even on a day trek.
This is basically where the RNLI first aid stops and we carry a first aid kit the size of a suitcase and are trained to use it. Yes, it's so big because we could come up against all sorts of problems, but we really are into keeping people alive and getting them to hospital or helicopters with the best chance of survival, not about trying to treat them at sea.
OK, so that's first aid, but in reality what we as campers, hikers, trekker and bushscrafters carry are 'medical kits'. We're not merely concerned with keeping people alive, we're interested in treating what we can. We don't want to have to take people to hospital or home if we can help it. If you've ever had a minor strain then you'll know it's actually quite painful unless you're strapped up when it's really quite ok. A good ankle strapping allowed me to finish a charity walk. I would have been gutted without that opportunity. Cuts, stings, strains, blisters, blood blisters, sun burn, ticks, splinters, minor pain and inflammation and other injuries can all be managed with very light weight kit. Yes, you can walk in pain for five days on a splinter and it go septic when you get home, but I'll carry tweezers. Yes, I can use my left thumb because my right one has blood under the nail, but a paper clip will sort that out. Yes, I can guess if someone has a fever, but a head strip thermometer weighs nothing. I'll take immodium rather than battle with diarrhoea and consequential dehydration.
Further along the line are things that just plain make people comfortable. If I'm trekking, I don't like guts ache, so I carry antacids. I don't like dry lips, so I carry lip balm and I don't like pain, so I carry pain killers.
I choose my first aid kit contents based on what I'm going to be doing, how long I'm going to be doing it for, the environment, the weather, how far I am from civilisation, who else I've got to look after and what level of care I want to give* and what I'm qualified to administer**.
* The level of care I want to give is generally. Don't die. Don't call the emergency services unless I have to, especially if they are voluntary. Get myself home (or back to civilisation or camp) if I can. Don't go home unless I need to. Be comfortable whilst I'm out. But equally, don't carry so much that I can't carry something else useful which I'm more likely to need or want. I don't carry a neck brace, for instance.
** Corollary: always take a nurse
There is a very big difference between a pocket kit for a day hike in along the coast path and a five day camping trip on Dartmoor with a group of school kids. I don't light fires when I'm hiking, so I don't carry burn stuff. None of the kids have angina, so I don't carry glyceryl trinitrate spray.
There is also a difference between what you have in a day sack and what you have at camp. You don't need to carry all of it all the time.
So the answer to the question "what belongs in first decent first aid kit" is all about what could go wrong and how much you want to let that spoil your trip. And the mere fact that it was asked with the qualifier "decent" implies it wants to be somewhat more than emergency patch up.
Remember, if you're in a party and someone needs to go home, they'll be taking someone perfectly healthy with them and if that can be avoided, then all the better for two people.
And finally, just because you have not injured yourself before and you consider yourself very careful, doesn't mean it won't happen to you or someone you're with. That is the nature of accidents. It can be high impact stuff, even if it's very low risk.
Now, who fancies a pint?
Now that's a good idea thanks for the post, lots of common sense and practical advice.
I know that I 'need' antihistamines, I know I 'need' something to clean and potentially cover bites, cuts, grazes, burns and the like.
I know I have damaged ligaments in my ankle so a strapping bandage is always in my pack.
But I also knew that apart from doing as Russ did, I had nothing that would dress a wound such as his and keep it clean and stable until we got him to hospital........a shemagh maybe ?
I think I'm going to add some field dressings to my out and about F.A. kit
The rest is pretty standard but 'decent' enough.
Does anyone in the know have pros or cons for one of those self adhesive bandages ? It occurs to me that that would have held the whole thing stable over the hankie until he got to hospital. They stick to themselves, not to the skin, they get used for folks with leg ulcers and the like.
Lot of really good responses to this thread; cheers folks,
atb,
Toddy
thanks for the post, lots of common sense and practical advice.I know that I 'need' antihistamines, I know I 'need' something to clean and potentially cover bites, cuts, grazes, burns and the like.
I know I have damaged ligaments in my ankle so a strapping bandage is always in my pack.
But I also knew that apart from doing as Russ did, I had nothing that would dress a wound such as his and keep it clean and stable until we got him to hospital........a shemagh maybe ?
I think I'm going to add some field dressings to my out and about F.A. kit
The rest is pretty standard but 'decent' enough.
Does anyone in the know have pros or cons for one of those self adhesive bandages ? It occurs to me that that would have held the whole thing stable over the hankie until he got to hospital. They stick to themselves, not to the skin, they get used for folks with leg ulcers and the like.
Lot of really good responses to this thread; cheers folks,
atb,
Toddy
it must be said that i've got a good bit of training in this area so I don't feel the need to carry too much, therefore I carry:
FFD's x2
Savlon (miracle cream)
Plasters
Aspirin
tweasers and a needle
alcohol gel-hand cleaner and NOT FOR cleaning wounds!! !!!
with and ffd you've got the packaging for sucking wounds (how in bushcraft i've no idea!!) and also stuff for splints and bandages!!!
FFD's x2
Savlon (miracle cream)
Plasters
Aspirin
tweasers and a needle
alcohol gel-hand cleaner and NOT FOR cleaning wounds!! !!!
with and ffd you've got the packaging for sucking wounds (how in bushcraft i've no idea!!) and also stuff for splints and bandages!!!
I am not familiar with this accident, so I'm sorry if this doesn't fit. They strike me as something less versatile than non-adhesive bandages which don't stick to skin, ulcers or leg hair (for those of us that have it) either. I do carry Micropore tape though.
The drill for major blood loss is direct pressure, raise the wound, get them on the ground and get them assistance. You want to apply a dressing under pressure and then if that fills up, just apply another one on top and get the thing bandaged on*. I'm not going to advise anyone to use a tourniquet without instruction, but, well, you know
if it's life and death, just don't forget the 'T' and the time on the forehead.* If the second fills, start again.
Go and buy the DK First Aid Manual and you'll feel a lot more confident.
I've done quite a few F A courses over the years, but somehow, practical though they are, they kind of miss the place with some of our activities.
I mean, so far this year Russ has had two injuries that needed hospital attention, caused by a sickle and an axe Neither are usual injuries covered in first aid courses, but I'm confident enough to know how to stabilise them until I could get him or anyone else to A & E.
I do feel though that 'appropriate' materials kept to hand might not be a bad idea for the future.......if he can cut himself like that, heaven alone knows what I can do to myself
From there it seemed a good idea to revise my F A kit contents while I was at it.
I'm not a fan of Savlon, it brings my skin up in the same kind of rash as that caused by zinc oxide plasters, but I do like the Compeed plasters, for both burns and blisters they are excellent
I'm half tempted to see if we can persuade Sniper to organise a bushcraft first aid course north of the border like the ones that Smarty and other folks do down south.
cheers,
Toddy
I mean, so far this year Russ has had two injuries that needed hospital attention, caused by a sickle and an axe
Neither are usual injuries covered in first aid courses, but I'm confident enough to know how to stabilise them until I could get him or anyone else to A & E. I do feel though that 'appropriate' materials kept to hand might not be a bad idea for the future.......if he can cut himself like that, heaven alone knows what I can do to myself
From there it seemed a good idea to revise my F A kit contents while I was at it.
I'm not a fan of Savlon, it brings my skin up in the same kind of rash as that caused by zinc oxide plasters, but I do like the Compeed plasters, for both burns and blisters they are excellent
I'm half tempted to see if we can persuade Sniper to organise a bushcraft first aid course north of the border like the ones that Smarty and other folks do down south.
cheers,
Toddy
Very similar to my pocket kit which also has a hay fever tablet and blister plasters in it as well as a foil blanket. Are there any dos and don'ts to purchasing alcohol gel for this purpose? I normally carry wipes.
Similar threads
