What do you see?

[Hawkeye The Noo]

I have never created a poll and thought I would give it a go( I will probably not get it right first time)

When you look out at a beautiful scene, what do you see?


Hope this works.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[jdlenton]

you've not got one for me

I see the beauty of the landscape with all the historical layers of human habitation all superimposed on it and on top of each other thats when I'm thinking when my brains turned of i just sit and enjoy the visaul feast this beautiful planet has to offer.

James

 

[C_Claycomb]

Jamie, hope you don't mind my adding another category.

I enjoy looking at scenery, but don't tend to be overcome by any great sense of wonder, and can't recall ever having wandered off still in wonder, or wondering about the scene.

I don't look at the landscape and ask deep questions about why it is the way it is, sometimes looking at the how can be interesting but I have never troubled myself with philosophical reasoning. It is enough that its there, that the day in question is pleasant and that I find the scene worth looking at.

 

[Graham_S]

i see plants to forage, wood to burn, animals to eat, etc

 

[Hawkeye The Noo]

It is good if you put other to post a response to say what the other is. My bread and butter job that pays the bills is a secondary school teacher of Religious Moral and Philosophical studies. My higher class of 16-18 year olds are using this poll as part of their research. The poll is based on the new testament book of Romans Chapter 1 and verse 20 : which basically sais that the beauty of creation is evidence of God and that anybody who has seen it is without an excuse for disbelieving in God. As most of my class is agnostic or atheist they wanted to put this verse to the test with a group of nature lovers, to see if the result of random people would be different or the same. So far it is the same as general joe public. Interestingly on the subject on religion and science; most of the atheists see so much assumptions and bad science in scientific method that they believe evolution and creationism are both as unbelievable with not enough evidence and both relying on faith. The exam board only allows the answers of believe on or the other or find both compatible, they do not allow for the rejection of both.

If you feel like a rant that does not need a reply feel free to pm me, they would be interested in reading them. I do not really want this post to turn into a creationist or evolutionist bashing zone. :You_Rock_

Cheers for your participation.

Jamie

 

[gregorach]

The poll is based on the new testament book of Romans Chapter 1 and verse 20 : which basically sais that the beauty of creation is evidence of God and that anybody who has seen it is without an excuse for disbelieving in God.

Well, that's a textbook case of "begging the question" if ever I saw one. The beauty of the world is only evidence of God if you already believe in God. If you don't believe in God, it is merely evidence that the world appears beautiful to us (probably because it's the world that defines our standards of beauty). Possibly the second-worst attempt to "prove" the existence of God I've so far encountered (the worst being Pascal's Wager). However, as you say, this probably isn't the place to start discussing theology.

I'm not getting into the whole evo / creation debate here, but asking a bunch of schoolkids to pass judgement on a branch of science that requires university-level study is never going to get you great answers. Might as well ask them their opinions of M theory, or whether the standard model of Quantum Mechanics gives a better picture of reality than General Relativity...

 

[Hawkeye The Noo]

Most of these kids produce work of a high standard and have went on to university to study philosophy. This poll is a bit of fun for them and most of them do not buy into it as an argument. They study all the different theories but at a lower level than university. What I give them is not a belief system but a set of analytical tools that aid them wherever they choose to go with their personal search. In their understanding of the strongest arguments they choose the teleological argument as religions best bet. they are smart enough to know that there is no proof or formulae either way and if there was most of the fun would be removed from studying it. What they see is an incredible amount of bias in both camps and very little objectivity from anyone.

Jamie

Jamie

 

[gregorach]

Teleology isn't an argument, it's an assertion.

As for their being no proof either way, that smacks of solipsism.

I should probably leave it here. PM me if you really want to discuss it further.

 

[Womble]

<scratches head in puzzlement, and goes back to admiring the view>

 

[Hawkeye The Noo]

The kids who wanted me to do the poll made an assumption about the users of this forum. Their assumption was that there would be a lot of spiritual people and fewer atheists. The sparitual aspects that they steriotyped the users of the forum being was not of a formal religion i.e Christianity but more like druidic/native american etc.

They expected a lot more people here to be into the Gaia theory which is closest to most native spiritualities. I guess we will find out in a few weeks when the poll ends.

Jamie

 

[gregorach]

I'm a big fan of the Gaia hypothesis (in the "weak" form") from a scientific standpoint, but it's not "spiritual" for me. It's just a statement of ecological fact. But then I'm a pretty hardcore atheist...

 

[grumit]

voted none of the above as when i see a beutiful scene it is most likely through a view finder of my camara and i'm looking for the best angle to shoot it

 

[C_Claycomb]

Oh, I amsorry, I hadn't realised that these were loaded questions.

While I voted None of the Above, I suppose I could be moved to the fourth option since I have pretty well made up my mind (so I don't fit No1) and have concluded that I don't believe in No 2 or 3.

I hadn't really realised how involved the arguements between creationist and evolutionist had become until I saw the recent Horizon "War on Science". After watching I came away with a question. I am probably very wrong since I can't see this from both perspectives, but, what motivates people who believe in Creation to go on studying the world and the universe? Those who don't believe, excavate fossils, gaze at the stars, split atoms and unravel DNA looking for why, how, and when things happen(ed). Obviously believing that God made the world and everything in it (plus all the stars) didn't stop scientific progress over the last 400+ years, but I haven't quite made the jump to understanding why not

Anyway, I find it much more of a wonder, far more amazing, to think that we all got here by accident, by lots of chances, than that there is some sentient Power driving and steering things.

Best of luck with the research, hope you get some useful stuff out.

 

[bilko]

Very interesting read.
Although i didn't understand some of the options so i put none of the above.
When i see something beautifull i tend to study it for a while, kind of absorb it and this makes me happy. I have never seen anything ( unfortunately ) that my brain didn't post an almost immediate answer for, ie it's an apple because it is green and i recognise it as such. I have seen shadows, light, movement even figures that have had me guessing for at least 3 seconds.
I do believe in god although i do not practice religion. I talk to God a lot, mostly thankyou for such and such, sorry i didn't do this and please help with...

I have never actually found myself wondering about the creation of thing although i do wonder on the beginnings of creation sometimes. I have made up a long winded theory about time being the final part of creation, a date stamp on every different molecule. A stopwatch that has an end date...i won't bore you

I approach god from an intuative piont of view ( what is right for me ), I do not except what is widely regarded as Darwins evolution theory but mix and match the sunday school bible i was taught with darwin. I believe vast expanses of time are unaccounted for and different species have been discounted entirely ie Dragons.
I do not like to rely wholy on science and often have flashes of wisdom/learning/divine inspiration even.

Not even sure if you asked for all that but i love talking about it

 

[Hawkeye The Noo]

Very interesting read.
I have made up a long winded theory about time being the final part of creation, a date stamp on every different molecule. A stopwatch that has an end date...i won't bore you

I approach god from an intuative piont of view ( what is right for me ), I do not except what is widely regarded as Darwins evolution theory but mix and match the sunday school bible i was taught with darwin. I believe vast expanses of time are unaccounted for and different species have been discounted entirely ie Dragons.
I do not like to rely wholy on science and often have flashes of wisdom/learning/divine inspiration even.

Not even sure if you asked for all that but i love talking about it

It can be fun to have these thoughts as not as much as people think is actually set in stone. When I was a kid I wanted to believe in the Bible and the continent of Atlantis so I came up with the idea that it was not Atlantis that sunk into the sea but that it was covered as was everything by Noahs flood but that when the waters receeded thay did not go down enough to uncover Atlantis again. For a while I managed to have my cake and eat it. As to your Dragons, the King James Bible uses the word unicorn in it.

keep having fun with faith, it is quite elastic in some directions.

cheers for the input to you all.

Jamie

 

[Spacemonkey]

I see life. If you knew me and what I do every day, that would make sense..

When I was a kid I wanted to believe in the Bible and the continent of Atlantis so I came up with the idea that it was not Atlantis that sunk into the sea but that it was covered as was everything by Noahs flood but that when the waters receeded thay did not go down enough to uncover Atlantis again.
Jamie

Actually, you're probably not far from the truth. Atlantis is such a strong myth that it had to have been based on true events. When the last Ice Ages melted away the seas levels rose. Fact. Most civilisations in the ancient world were based at river mouths. Fact. When the sea levels rose they would have been lost. The sea levels rose at a very alarming rate so it has been shown, so you would get the disaster theory which is the basis for Noahs flood, and the same myth that evolved in China (using a character called 'No' from what I recall) and the South American myth also. The Flood story is a world wide cultural myth based, I believe, on true events which , as i said, co incide with the end of the Ice Ages and glacial melt. To back this up, there are many sites around the world such as off the Indian coast and France where these ancient remains have been found that could only have been made when the sea levels were much lower. According to people such as Graham Hancock (who I believe is slowly getting his theoris ironed out. He has made some bloops in the past, but i think that he is learning all the time, and getting closer to the answer all the time) Atlantis itself could possibly have been the Bimini Islands in the West Indies. They would have been a large land mass before the Flood, but now just a few atolls remain along with possible man made underwater structures.

Feel free to disagree, but this is my theory!

 

[gregorach]

Personally, I suspect the Atlantis myth is a synthesis of many other similar stories based on real events. I very much doubt that a city which would exactly match Plato's description has ever really existed - I think Plato's story of Atlantis is intended as a cautionary tale, and is no more real than his cave-dwelling philosophers in "Republic" or the geography he describes in "Phaedrus". However, in the search for this ficitonal archetype of the lost civilisation, we've found many, many real lost civilisations.

 

[stone]

I voted "none of the above"

I look at beautiful scenery in relation to things like the concrete jungles of the big cities, and the constantly depressing images of Afgan/Iraqi warzones, and am just thankful that these beautiful places are there to enjoy. I believe there is something bigger than all us in this big game called life, but am not part of any god squad / religious group...

~mike

 

[Wayland]

1/125th @ f16 usually

 

[bilko]

Nice picture wayland. I can see an entrance left of center. That sort of thing could keep me going for hours. Looking down all the angles trying to work out alignment then realising there may be none etc etc