What chainsaw and what training do you have?

[slowworm]

I've been using chainsaws for several years now and I'm looking at getting a better saw, and possibly some more training. I'm mainly talking about petrol saws that can do a fair bit of work, from felling, to logging to clearing fallen trees.

My main saw is a small 35cc Echo 352 semi pro saw. Before I bought it I went on a single day domestic chainsaw course as I wasn't that confident in using them. The training has been useful and the saw perfect for a beginner but I'm now looking at something with a bit more power as I'm often dealing with large trees.

I do have a much larger saw but it is not easy to start and is too heavy for long periods of use. I'm considering a pro saw around the 50cc size and possibly some more training if it will be useful. Just trying to work out what to do.

So, those of you who use a chainsaw about the home or woodlands what is your main saw and what training do you have? Would you recommend either or would you suggest something else?

 

[EdS]

And electric (plug in) Oregon with 12" bar for cutting logs at home.

Husqvarna 445 running 18" bar and X cut chain out and about. It came with 18" bar - when I get a new chain I'll probably swap to 15".

They Husqvarna was a bargin last Christmas at local dealer....I was tempted by the 450 but:

A) upped the price a chunk.
B) the extra weight

Been out today cutting some ash and sycamore ...some of it around >70cm . No problem.

I'd start with:

A) what are you cutting
B) how often
C) budget

And invest in quality chains and keep them sharp.

 

[Pattree]

I only have a 240 volt electric chainsaw these days.
I was trained by the Forestry Commission, my first employer.

We cut wind blow up in Argyll in highly atypical conditions so the training that I still find most useful is sharpening both on and off the saw. I still keep a micrometer/vernier for the purpose.

We worked piecework and in those days the guys who had their own saws reckoned the the Husquvana was worth 10% on their pay.

 

[British Red]

I'm going to make two, very distinct, points to answer your question.

So my training is "none" formal but a lot of hands on coaching over the years from tree surgeons and foresters. I am fast and efficient bucking up firewood. I am capable and safe at falling small to medium trees in non hazardous environments. I am incapable of safe aerial work, falling giants, hazardous trees or trees in hazardous situations. I know my limitations.

So I find an 18" bar on a saw body in the 50cc to 60cc engine is the sweet spot for me. I run an MS291

Chainsaw ms291 by English Countrylife, on Flickr

I still have a Husqy 350 that I really like in the same size range

Chainsaw and splitting tools by British Red, on Flickr

So the first part of my answer is that they work well for me.

The second part is that I HIGHLY rate cheap mains electric saws for simply bucking up firewood.

I buck up relatively large trees with a cheap Screwfix saw

Logs sawn into rounds by English Countrylife, on Flickr

It's cheap, quiet, reliable, requires minimal servicing and they replace them when I burn them out. A Screwfix saw with good PPE & saw bench is a better choice than a petrol saw and nothing else imo

https://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttl758chn-a-2000w-230-240v-electric-40cm-chainsaw/338py

 

[TeeDee]

Its a great question.

I have electric and two petrol chainsaws.

Objectively I have no official training. And I say that knowing I would probably benefit from some.

Worse that that I have limited PPE.

Great question deserves honest answer.
Thanks for making me think.

 

[Broch]

I have now been managing semi natural ancient woodland for 30 years, and when I took on new woodland in 2017 I decided to get some training to deal with the hung up and leaning large trees. I didn't want to spend the £1,500 odd that it would have cost me to go from cross-cut and maintenance to the full large and leaning tree level of the LANTRA ticket, so I paid Phil Dunford (North Wales) for two days one-on-one training - £500 and worth every penny. Remember though, without a ticket and insurance, your on a dodgy wicket wielding a chainsaw in a public place (such as clearing a fallen tree in a road), no matter how much experience you can claim.

As for saws, I do the majority of my work with Makita cordless - much quieter in the wood and around the house. I use it for all my coppicing, snedding, and even felling up to about 150-200mm. I have three Stihl petrol saws - the largest an 18" bar, then a 14" bar, and finally a 4m telescopic 12" saw.

I always wear helmet and gloves (even just cross-cutting with the electric saw); I wear full trousers in the woods; I never wear chainsaw boots - I've never found a pair that I feel safe on the slopes in.

Whenever I have others come and work I get them to sign a liability disclaimer and insist they use chain covers when walking around (the worst CS accident I have seen is when someone tripped and fell on their exposed saw when it wasn't running). I also insist I want to hear the brake 'clunk' every time they move.

Working on my own most of the time I have to be meticulous about safety whether it's using the saw or working out a felling process. I have seen some abysmal 'self taught' practices and even refused to work with one guy

 

[FerlasDave]

I have had a few chainsaws over the years and used to spend winters as a tree surgeon/forester depending what was about in between summer outdoor work.

When I did my chainsaw felling and cross cut course I had a husqvarna 136 which was their cheapest home owner model. It really kept up but with a plastic crankcase and over 100 hours it soon started to play up and give me problems. Traded that in for a 440 imo the best homeowner saw you can get it’s super light and fast! I soon upgraded to a husqvarna 454xp though as I was needing something bigger and a 20” bar to go with it. It was one of the first of that model in the country at the time and the auto tune carb is sweet as a nut to run.

I still have and use that saw a lot but I also have an echo top handle saw that gets used probably more so however I would not recommend a beginner or in fact anyone without specialist training to even entertain using one.

The new battery saws are actually incredible though and I am half tempted to swap my 454 for the Husqvarna battery one but I’m too nostalgic about that absolute weapon of a saw!

Also please don’t scrimp on PPE and make sure you get adequate training from an up to date trainer! Not just “my mate who’s been using saws for years” no offence @British Red

 

[British Red]

Also please don’t scrimp on PPE and make sure you get adequate training from an up to date trainer! Not just “my mate who’s been using saws for years” no offence @British Red

Totally agree with everything you said. I've had plenty of expert hands on training, I'm just not overly stressed by pieces of paper. I'm certainly not going to spend £500 for someone to teach me to file a blade and set a depth gauge. Spending that is fine if you don't know how already of course! I totally agree on PPE. No saw should run without trousers, boots, helmet, ear & eye protection imo. I even wear the jacket if working above waist height.

Now on the battery saws I'm not sold. I can see them for top handle saws but they are still very expensive for ground work & the same effect can be achieved with a mains saw & power station for most of us. The DeWalt / Makita maybe - if you already have the batteries

 

[FerlasDave]

Totally agree with everything you said. I've had plenty of expert hands on training, I'm just not overly stressed by pieces of paper. I'm certainly not going to spend £500 for someone to teach me to file a blade and set a depth gauge. Spending that is fine if you don't know how already of course! I totally agree on PPE. No saw should run without trousers, boots, helmet, ear & eye protection imo. I even wear the jacket if working above waist height.

Now on the battery saws I'm not sold. I can see them for top handle saws but they are still very expensive for ground work & the same effect can be achieved with a mains saw & power station for most of us. The DeWalt / Makita maybe - if you already have the batteries

I’m sure that’s the case, I was teasing you a little bit but I know of folk who have learned from people who profess themselves to be experts and are really not. They’ve just been lucky for 30 years!

I’ve not really used anything corded but I can see the benefit if you can do all of your cutting close to home. I assume you’d need a decent wattage one to cut anything bigger or harder though?

 

[slowworm]

I have all the PPE and often use an affordable electric chainsaw but when it comes to clearing several mature trees I think petrol saws are still the best option for me. I'd need the top of the range battery saw and several batteries and that would pay for more fuel than I'm ever likely to use. I'm also a bit wary of their longevity.

With regard to training, the main reason would be to use the saw on other people's property. I'm sure I would learn things but, as has been mentioned, the cost for being taught chainsaw maintenance and skills I already know are not small and I gather I would need to pass the basic assessments before moving on to the more useful courses. The main problem is there are hardly ever any local courses. If I could somehow arrange a one to one course locally that would be ideal.

 

[Broch]

Totally agree with everything you said. I've had plenty of expert hands on training, I'm just not overly stressed by pieces of paper. I'm certainly not going to spend £500 for someone to teach me to file a blade and set a depth gauge. Spending that is fine if you don't know how already of course! I totally agree on PPE. No saw should run without trousers, boots, helmet, ear & eye protection imo. I even wear the jacket if working above waist height.

Now on the battery saws I'm not sold. I can see them for top handle saws but they are still very expensive for ground work & the same effect can be achieved with a mains saw & power station for most of us. The DeWalt / Makita maybe - if you already have the batteries

I don't recon the batteries cost a great deal more than the petrol running the Stihls to be honest. On top of that, the freedom of not having a cable trailing around you in dense woodland, is worth every penny. I guess it all comes down to where you need to use your saw.

As for the training, we have just paid for five of our members to get their basic cross cut and maintenance qualification; it was £245 each including the ticket assessment. Most of the course is about safety and technique; only a small part covers sharpening and maintenance. However, if people have not got the experience, maintaining a saw to ensure it remains safe to use is vital training. As for the £500 I spent, it took me right up to felling trees that would kill you if you just made one bad cut - if nothing else, it taught me what I shouldn't do

Oh, one final point, regulations have changed. You no longer hold a LANTRA ticket for life. Now (since 2012 I think) you have to renew your ticket if you want to work professionally with a chainsaw.

 

[TeeDee]

I’m sure that’s the case, I was teasing you a little bit but I know of folk who have learned from people who profess themselves to be experts and are really not. They’ve just been lucky for 30 years!

I’ve not really used anything corded but I can see the benefit if you can do all of your cutting close to home. I assume you’d need a decent wattage one to cut anything bigger or harder though?

My local Tree surgeon super nice guy is certified up to the gunnels.
Been using a chainsaw for a very long time.

Last year he managed to have a whoopsie moment and saw through his tendons.

Not sure exactly what that means - he would have exposed himself to more of a probability over repetition of action but ultimately having all the right kit , all the right training and accumulated years of experience still managed to have a near career ending accident.

 

[FerlasDave]

My local Tree surgeon super nice guy is certified up to the gunnels.
Been using a chainsaw for a very long time.

Last year he managed to have a whoopsie moment and saw through his tendons.

Not sure exactly what that means - he would have exposed himself to more of a probability over repetition of action but ultimately having all the right kit , all the right training and accumulated years of experience still managed to have a near career ending accident.

Of course, accidents happen. I won’t claim to know the ins and outs of what he did and yes possibly complacency may have been part of it. But I’m sure he would still agree that his training was worth the money.

 

[British Red]

I’m sure that’s the case, I was teasing you a little bit but I know of folk who have learned from people who profess themselves to be experts and are really not. They’ve just been lucky for 30 years!

I’ve not really used anything corded but I can see the benefit if you can do all of your cutting close to home. I assume you’d need a decent wattage one to cut anything bigger or harder though?

I've used a few. I had an early Husqy that was adequate. The Screwfix ones ron a 2000W motor and cost £50. Spare chains are £7. They are easily capable of cross cutting 14" trunks. They are very quiet, much better to "pick up & put down", require minimal maintenance.

BUT

They lack the vibration management of a big petrol saw. Whilst lighter they do lack the torque of my large petrol saws.

For just bucking up the stuff up to about 10" though in a fixed location they are amazing value. I cut up about 60 cubic metres of firewood in 2 years 10 months and burned out the motor. They just handed me a replacement. That's a bargain for £50

 

[slowworm]

Of course, accidents happen.

Indeed. I'm at the age now where I need to be more conscious of tiredness and I also need to be careful of overconfidence.

Even if I do the courses, I'd still lack the experience, which is another thing to consider.

 

[66jj99]

Current saws: Husky 500XPMK2 & Stihl MSA160

50cc Vs 35cc:

I'd say it's probably best done with the appropriate size tool for the job. For anything serious, cuts are certainly executed more quickly with one of the faster 50's, (that nowadays are quite low in weight) this tends to keep you the operator fresher for longer. Sort of less stress on you & the kit too, so safer.

 

[MrEd]

I have a stihl MSA 220 battery operated, I use it for wind fall and fire wood prep at home, I did have a 20 odd year old stihl something or other that packed up. Got the battery one as it’s a bit more neighbour friendly.

Never been formally trained but my brother in law has had a forestry and aboroculture business for 30 odd years so have been shown or learnt bits off him over the years, mainly when tending to his massive orchard.
Also from a family friend who owns a pine plantation, all though that’s been less saw handling and more hung up or standing dead’s and how to deal with them.

 

[Kadushu]

I got NPTC certificates and currently use an MS260 with 16" bar, pole chainsaw and no-brand top handle saw with 10" bar. My view is that formal training educates you in "best practice" and if you deviate from that then hopefully it'll be an informed choice rather than out of ignorance.

 

[British Red]

I don't recon the batteries cost a great deal more than the petrol running the Stihls to be honest.

AP300 batteries are £288 each and I would need at least 2

AP (Pro) Cordless System Battery

The AP 200 S and AP 300 S 36v Lithium-Ion batteries are compatible with the tools in the STIHL AP System of professional battery tools.

shop.stihl.co.uk

Put those into a decent saw, with a charger and it's £1,000. To me that's a lot.

As I say if you use a Makita or DeWalt then yes, you probably already have the batteries (I must have half a dozen DeWalts) and it makes more sense. But for me, doing ground work on firewood, petrol for remote work or mains electric for processing logs make more sense

 

[Broch]

Yes, I totally agree, those batteries are a ridiculous price and I don't know how much longer they would last than my ones fitted to the Makita - a full pack for me costs about £50 and I run three sets.

You've convinced me I should consider a mains unit for the log processing though; it would save on the life of the batteries.

Down in the wood however, the advantages of the cordless saws outweigh any cost consideration. The most obvious being that in these valleys a petrol chainsaw running is the worst noise pollution you could think of; you can hear it for miles. Then, working on steep slopes, I can put the saw down without it jogging down the hill on idle. I can pick it up, do a single cut, and put it back down again without getting tennis elbow starting it A number of the local arborists and foresters around here have switched to electric for a great deal of their work.