Ridge Runner said:
:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
Shocking business.
Did the NRA take up the story at all?
Essentially this individual (the police chief) has decided to re-write the law unilaterally. He should be removed from office IMO.
What are the firearm laws like in your country? Do you agree with them? Why?
- Thread starter Ridge Runner
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
Shocking business.
Did the NRA take up the story at all?
Essentially this individual (the police chief) has decided to re-write the law unilaterally. He should be removed from office IMO.
ChrisKavanaugh
Need to contact Admin...
The trouble with firearms, an inanimate object, is they are created and used by mankind, which is. This topic should be standard fare in debating classes. I can comfortably assume pro and con and pile statistics, anecdotal stories and equal misinformation ( statistics, lies,lies and more damned lies.) I've owned or fired everything from a Brown Bess to a 5"50 naval cannon ( USCG service.) I've attended gunshows that left me nauseated by the crass world view expressed and I've debated anti gunners at Green Party meetings who get their information from a cancelled T.V. cop show. G.B. is a very specific target of the american debate. Why? our common heritage of history, custom and, dare I say it, white maleness. We see you 'disarmed,' and like a concerned older brother want to take you to a pub ( or other social establishments) and nurture you through some male right of passage ( assuming the responsibility and rights of manhood) with liquor, girls and a Webly-Fosbury slipped in the waistband to stiffen your resolve. Nobody asks how poor people in '3rd world' countries feel about AK-47s carried by children shorter than the weapon while bags of flour, cooking oil and simple aspirin are unobtainable. Restrictions that are reasonable will always be unreasonable to some people. The notion America will never be invaded because of all those John Wayne commemorative Winchesters is fallacious. Ukraine had a very high private gun ownwership. It took Stalin what, a few months to initiate his collectivation that led to widespread starvation? On the other hand, .50 caliber single shot rifles have become a expensive, but popular market here. I know of no crime involving one ( they are rather heavy and cumbersome) and the private civilian competitors worked reloading magic on the round our armed forces now benefit from with long range, super accurate .50 snipers in Afghanistan. Yet our uber fuhrer, Das Arnold signed legislation banning further purchases in Kaleefornee-a and requiring present pieces be registered as assault weapons. Personally, I'd like to torch his earth destroying HUMVEEs and $60,000 a box cigars. Anyone notice how actors make millions wasting stunt men and extras by the gross then step off the set and express paternal concern for us unwashed masses?
Sorry to bring this up again, but you guys seem to be doing a very good job of having a controlled discussion. 
I forgt whose posts prompted me to say this, but the government commissioned a report before banning pistols. The Cullen report was a well balanced look at all pistols, and drew the conclusion that handguns could be fairly banned, single-shot target pistols posed no threat and should be allowed to stay legal. Single-shot target pistols are used for international matches (Commonwelth Games, Olympics), and no criminal is going to use one for the reason that if he shoots, he then has at least two seconds before he has reloaded in which he is vulnerable to attack. There is also a possibility that the public won't believe that the strange contraption he is holding is a pistol because they look very different to handguns.
I forget what the Cullen report said about semi-autos used for international matches though.
The most successful Englishman at the last Commonwealth Games was a pistol shooter.
I forgt whose posts prompted me to say this, but the government commissioned a report before banning pistols. The Cullen report was a well balanced look at all pistols, and drew the conclusion that handguns could be fairly banned, single-shot target pistols posed no threat and should be allowed to stay legal. Single-shot target pistols are used for international matches (Commonwelth Games, Olympics), and no criminal is going to use one for the reason that if he shoots, he then has at least two seconds before he has reloaded in which he is vulnerable to attack. There is also a possibility that the public won't believe that the strange contraption he is holding is a pistol because they look very different to handguns.
I forget what the Cullen report said about semi-autos used for international matches though.
The most successful Englishman at the last Commonwealth Games was a pistol shooter.
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Not too sure I'd discribe the Cullen report as fair and balanced but that's another story....
Interesting to note that what the Cullen report didn't mention/predict was that following the UK handgun ban the number of illegal handguns in the UK would double (at least) and that gun crime in the country would (relative to before the report) go through the roof.
I make no comment on UK gun law one way or the other, the figures for gun crime "post ban" speak for themselves.
As Chris says below, it is possible to make very strong arguements both for and against gun control depending on which set of stats you choose to quote from.
Interesting to note that what the Cullen report didn't mention/predict was that following the UK handgun ban the number of illegal handguns in the UK would double (at least) and that gun crime in the country would (relative to before the report) go through the roof.
I make no comment on UK gun law one way or the other, the figures for gun crime "post ban" speak for themselves.
As Chris says below, it is possible to make very strong arguements both for and against gun control depending on which set of stats you choose to quote from.
mmm five pages of this on a site which has nothing what so ever to do with firearms, intresting debate but i think it has run its course.
Of course my problem is that I wasn't shooting at the time, and was so young I didn't really care, so I've probably not got a fair opinion of it...bambodoggy said:
Yeah, sorry I brought it up again. Will go back to corner.
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oh bless....you stay out of the corner girl....it's only by talking about things that we all become more clear about them.....arguements are bad, disscusion is good ): oh, and my spelling is Cr** lol
): oh, and my spelling is Cr** lol
OK. I have read all the past post and I can appreciate your views. Your culture across the pond is evidently way different than ours. I have been around long enough to know that a persons views and opinions are the result of their life experiences.
I am currently a Detective Sergeant in Kansas and have been a police officer for 21 years in two States. I have seen some of the lowest life forms and mouth breathers of society attack another person with a pair of scissors, shovel, golf club, broken board, rusty steak knife and sometimes even a gun. The thing that makes it horrific is that I was not there to protect them. Im not sure how many constables your have on duty at one time or how much area they have to cover, but the county I live in is large (1428 Sq miles) and is mostly rural. There are about 4 to 5 deputies on duty at one time. So at best they cover 300 sq. miles. Most violent attacks, from beginning to end take an average of 5 to 8 minutes. How quickly can you cover the distance? If it was you or your wife and child that were being attacked would you not want the ability to protect yourself?
Some one mentioned they had a windshield broken out with a tire tool. Im having to read between the lines but sounds like all that got attacked was the car, not the driver. The easiest way to stop that confrontation is to leave. Back up the car and turn around. Go to the nearest cop and tell him what happened. Even being a cop I would not have left the safety of my car to deal with the man. And if you could not leave or he began to attack you, you dont need a gun you are already behind the wheel of a 2,000 lbs projectile. I dont advocate shooting anyone unless its all you can do, and I dont necessarily believe its all you can do. Its much too easy to walk away from a fight than to participate in it especially if my family is around. But by the same token if you pursue me after I have broken the engagement, you will visit the hospital.
I dont care if your gun is a single shot or a machine gun, as long as you are an honest citizen ..who cares. The Anthrax analogy is absurd. Anthrax is a naturally occurring disease we are around it all the time yet there is not an epidemic of it. My gun sitting in a cabinet is not going to hurt anyone. You also mentioned that guns that had been locked up are stolen. Not true. In every case I have worked or any type of stolen property, the owner did not secure it. Thieves are not master minds, theyre lazy they look for open cars or house and will not devote much time to penetrating a hardened target.
I have a large selection of handguns and long guns. There are no concealed carry permits, but Im a cop so I can carry anywhere anytime. You must be twenty-one to buy a handgun, 18 to buy a long gun. I think most stores limit you to 16 to by an air gun. You may posses a gun as long as you have no felony criminal record or conviction of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. (Hitting your spouse).
Whilst Im on my soap box, I also saw some one from Parliament had spoken on the wickedness of carrying knives. Seems the man and his wife were out riding bicycles and saw a young boy pull out a knife to cut a piece of string or some other nefarious task and he was in shock. Caused him and his wife to ride away. I only hope he didnt get the hem of his dress caught in his spokes and strangle as he pedaled furiously away. Please, if the sight of a knife causes him abject terror, his wife must tear the chicken with her hands when dressing it for dinner.
If you look at your surroundings anything can be a weapon. I personally like a stick. I can take down man or beast with a stout one. But a rock, rolled up newspaper, handkerchief, pencil or pen, cola can, telephone handset, paperclips and rubber bands can be used to inflict injury or death. As bushcrafters we make something out of nothing and use it to survive.
I hope I dont offend you all but I am passionate about people being able to protect themselves. I dont like people being victims of their own ignorance. Sometimes people hear something so often they take it as the truth without checking things out. This was not an attack on anyone so please dont take it as that, only my own opinion.
I am currently a Detective Sergeant in Kansas and have been a police officer for 21 years in two States. I have seen some of the lowest life forms and mouth breathers of society attack another person with a pair of scissors, shovel, golf club, broken board, rusty steak knife and sometimes even a gun. The thing that makes it horrific is that I was not there to protect them. Im not sure how many constables your have on duty at one time or how much area they have to cover, but the county I live in is large (1428 Sq miles) and is mostly rural. There are about 4 to 5 deputies on duty at one time. So at best they cover 300 sq. miles. Most violent attacks, from beginning to end take an average of 5 to 8 minutes. How quickly can you cover the distance? If it was you or your wife and child that were being attacked would you not want the ability to protect yourself?
Some one mentioned they had a windshield broken out with a tire tool. Im having to read between the lines but sounds like all that got attacked was the car, not the driver. The easiest way to stop that confrontation is to leave. Back up the car and turn around. Go to the nearest cop and tell him what happened. Even being a cop I would not have left the safety of my car to deal with the man. And if you could not leave or he began to attack you, you dont need a gun you are already behind the wheel of a 2,000 lbs projectile. I dont advocate shooting anyone unless its all you can do, and I dont necessarily believe its all you can do. Its much too easy to walk away from a fight than to participate in it especially if my family is around. But by the same token if you pursue me after I have broken the engagement, you will visit the hospital.
I dont care if your gun is a single shot or a machine gun, as long as you are an honest citizen ..who cares. The Anthrax analogy is absurd. Anthrax is a naturally occurring disease we are around it all the time yet there is not an epidemic of it. My gun sitting in a cabinet is not going to hurt anyone. You also mentioned that guns that had been locked up are stolen. Not true. In every case I have worked or any type of stolen property, the owner did not secure it. Thieves are not master minds, theyre lazy they look for open cars or house and will not devote much time to penetrating a hardened target.
I have a large selection of handguns and long guns. There are no concealed carry permits, but Im a cop so I can carry anywhere anytime. You must be twenty-one to buy a handgun, 18 to buy a long gun. I think most stores limit you to 16 to by an air gun. You may posses a gun as long as you have no felony criminal record or conviction of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. (Hitting your spouse).
Whilst Im on my soap box, I also saw some one from Parliament had spoken on the wickedness of carrying knives. Seems the man and his wife were out riding bicycles and saw a young boy pull out a knife to cut a piece of string or some other nefarious task and he was in shock. Caused him and his wife to ride away. I only hope he didnt get the hem of his dress caught in his spokes and strangle as he pedaled furiously away. Please, if the sight of a knife causes him abject terror, his wife must tear the chicken with her hands when dressing it for dinner.
If you look at your surroundings anything can be a weapon. I personally like a stick. I can take down man or beast with a stout one. But a rock, rolled up newspaper, handkerchief, pencil or pen, cola can, telephone handset, paperclips and rubber bands can be used to inflict injury or death. As bushcrafters we make something out of nothing and use it to survive.
I hope I dont offend you all but I am passionate about people being able to protect themselves. I dont like people being victims of their own ignorance. Sometimes people hear something so often they take it as the truth without checking things out. This was not an attack on anyone so please dont take it as that, only my own opinion.
Stuart said:
Why is there a section for "Other Chatter" then?
I have carried a rifle, shotgun or pistol out in the woods when I was hunting, camping with family or practicing Bushcraft alone. It is part of my states culture as well as a necessity. There are estimated to be over 23,000 black bears in Maine. I am not going into the deep woods knowing that there is something out there that could possibly eat me! In addition, you do not want to get between a Moose and its offspring....You are just begging to be "charged" by it.
I realize that this is Bushcraft UK and that the opinions here may be different than mine. I only asked the initial question to learn about other cultures values, opinions or laws in an international forum. I know what I hear from my "mainstream media" on other countires, I would rather communicate directly with people from those countires firsthand.
I only ask so that I may learn. Perhaps this thread has run its course, or perhaps it has not.
Is there anyone on this board from Switzerland?....I would be very interested to learn about their culture and their opinioins on this matter.
Emma said:
Emma - No - I second the other comment - you've a right to your opinions and asking questions is the best way to learn :biggthump
I can lend you a copy of the Cullen report if you're interested.
The really interesting things about it are :
- What was left out.
- What was taken out, between the first draft given to cabinet et al and the official version published some days later (only according to hearsay so I'll decline to repeat it, but look at the consistency of the text).
- How both sides of the commons prejudged the issues and publicly declared their intention to implement a ban some 10 to 14 days BEFORE even the draft report was released.
Speaking for myself, public inquiries seem like a good way to distract the public but ultimately fail to address the full range of issues and leave us disappointed with the conclusions.
Oh BTW - no threat or not, the single shot olympic pistols got banned along with everything else. UK pistol shooters in any international competition, just like the japanese competitors, now have to go abroad to practice.
Cheers
I'd beg to differ on that stuart.A gun is a perfectly acceptable way of gathering food.whether its an airgun or firearm, if it is being used legally comes within the confines of bushcraft. I know that many of us like to 'get back to basics' and as such use primitive forms of hunting such as snares,bows or catapults, which I assume you approve of,but you cant discount firearms as a bushcraft subject simply because they are modern and not easily accesssible in the UK.If this were the criteria we are moderated on then surely modern Bashas and hammocks shouldn't be on the forum as we should all be useing leaf shelters!Stuart said:
If we are wrong to discuss it,as a moderator you should lock the thread.
This is a hot topic in the US. I grew up with guns and I enjoy collecting and using them. In my opinion, firearms are tools that serve many uses. They offer an effective way to harvest meat, a enjoyable pastime in target practice and unquestionably they serve as weapons of protection against both man and beast. One of the many misconceptions of the modern world is that "somebody" other than yourself is responsible for your personal health and welfare. I see this mindset in our general populace on a regular basis. If you need proof, just go to a shopping mall or any other place where pedestrians and automobiles share the same space and count the number of people who step into the path of a moving vehicle while looking the other way. They assume the driver will see them and yield - after all...they have the right of way... The anti gun crowd in this country believes that firearms are evil devices and that law enforcement professionals are responsible to protect them - afterall...thats what they are paid to do.... I am a firm supporter of our various police agencies but the fact of the matter is, they cant be everywhere and by the time they can come to the rescue its usually too late. As evidenced by recent world events, our species has not yet evolved to the level that personal safety can be taken for granted and bad people do exist. In my opinion, I have primary responsibility for my safety. I dont go kayaking without a PFD, I dont hunt from a tree stand without a safety belt and I dont go where lowlifes and loosers gather without a gun. Its simply a matter of being prepared. Like it or not, the use of weapons for self protection is probably as important as the mastery of fire in terms of our development. I am thankful that while New York State has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, it still allows for concealed carry of firearms by responsible individuals.
W
wedgeeee
Guest
hello everyone i know i am changing the subject a little but let me throw something else into the pot. Cars kill more people in the UK so should we ban cars as well guns. as we could all ride bikes for our transport!!!! it would keep the country healther and its better for the environment????? ): (ps cars can be used as weapons)
): (ps cars can be used as weapons)
cars can also get you to work/the shops/school/anywhere theres a road(and theres lots of them) and even sometimes places where there arnt roards.. if we banned cars we would have to walk/swim/fly where ever we needed to go.. this would have an un-mesurable effect on our lives/society
guns dont do these things.. they dont play such a significant role as cars in our lives/society so bans in place and further bans imposed on ownership and the sale of guns would not have such a significant and negative effect on our lives/society..
might i add i think the current laws on firearms in the uk are good and i do not think they need changeing at this time!
Welcome to BCUK :wave:
guns dont do these things.. they dont play such a significant role as cars in our lives/society so bans in place and further bans imposed on ownership and the sale of guns would not have such a significant and negative effect on our lives/society..
might i add i think the current laws on firearms in the uk are good and i do not think they need changeing at this time!
Welcome to BCUK :wave:
After banning guns, lets ban knives and perhaps axes too...that won't affect members of the general public too much..
Then we can ban smoking...what else should we ban? Talk about the nanny state!
Baning firarms simply removes them from law abiding people but does nothing to stop criminals using them...Look at the recent drive by shootings in Birmigham...they used smg's which have never been legal in this country!
Target the criminal whether he uses a gun, knife or car; lock them up for a long time..
Regards,
Pete
Then we can ban smoking...what else should we ban? Talk about the nanny state!
Baning firarms simply removes them from law abiding people but does nothing to stop criminals using them...Look at the recent drive by shootings in Birmigham...they used smg's which have never been legal in this country!
Target the criminal whether he uses a gun, knife or car; lock them up for a long time..
Regards,
Pete
Hmmm...well I haven't read all the posts in this thread but quite a few and so far it looks to be civil. Please keep it that way. I know this is a hot button topic but BCUK is a community of folks who know how to disagree in a friendly way, eh? :wave:
bambodoggy
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Very well said Pete, we had the same thing about 10 years about with dangerous dogs, with calls to ban this breed and that breed out of hand because a few muppets had let their dogs run amuck.....meanwhile kids and parents up and down the country worried that there smallest family member was going to be put to sleep!!!!!
There was/is a strong campaign started called "Punish the deed, not the breed"....i.e punish the dog and more so the owner for a specific offence and not the the whole breed collectively for the sins of a few high profile media cases..... without trying to be racially contraversial here, can you imagine the outcry (and very very rightly so) if we judged humans the same....."Sorry, all white people have been banned as a few can't behave"!!!!!!
Wedgeee, I can see your point but it's sometimes folly to work on statistics for example, we are all aware of the dangers of hard drugs. Most of us enjoy a little drinky every now and then but did we know:
Alcohol kills more people each year than Crack, Heroin and Cocain COMBINED.
Yes, that's right, the above is a fact but yet drinking is socially acceptable and (quite rightly obviously) hard drugs are NOT.
There was/is a strong campaign started called "Punish the deed, not the breed"....i.e punish the dog and more so the owner for a specific offence and not the the whole breed collectively for the sins of a few high profile media cases..... without trying to be racially contraversial here, can you imagine the outcry (and very very rightly so) if we judged humans the same....."Sorry, all white people have been banned as a few can't behave"!!!!!!
Wedgeee, I can see your point but it's sometimes folly to work on statistics for example, we are all aware of the dangers of hard drugs. Most of us enjoy a little drinky every now and then but did we know:
Alcohol kills more people each year than Crack, Heroin and Cocain COMBINED.
Yes, that's right, the above is a fact but yet drinking is socially acceptable and (quite rightly obviously) hard drugs are NOT.
Emma said:
That never stopped **** Turpin....
edit.... oh great.. I can't say "short for Richard" Turpin.
Similar threads
