Weird metal work question

[British Red]

I want to make a form of pickaroon from threaded bar. Is it possible using a powerful blow torch (think roofers torch) to heat treat a 12" bolt in such a way as to harden it ? Pardon my ignorance but I am a metal work ignoramus. I am looking to take a long length of threaded bar, grind one end to a point, heat treat it so that it stays sharp, and bolt the other end through a handle.

Doable?

If so...how would I tackle it?

 

[ged]

I'd be tempted to suggest cutting something the right sort of shape out of a bit of plate. If it's for handling logs I wouldn't have thought you'd need to do much in the way of hardening but pardon my own ignorance as I've never used one of these tools.

I thinkyou'd be struggling with a blowtorch to get a decent heat treatment and anyway I'm not sure that what your average bolt is made of the right material for hardening by heat treatment. Bolts tend to be designed for high tensile strength, not high hardness.

 

[British Red]

Mmm I feared that might be the case - I could rig up a small forge easily enough (barbecue type) but if the material in bolts can't be hardened. I suppose I could use a bit of tool steel and thread one end of it or even just cut down a cheap axe head.

 

[ged]

I suppose just buying one is out of the question?

http://www.ddpowertools.co.uk/product.php/site/froogle/sn/00008812800

All right it's not quite the same thing but it's cheap enough and it's time I hit the sack anyway - have to be up in five hours...

 

[Toddy]

How about an old fashioned ice axe ? No one uses the heavy metal ones with wooden handles now. I know we had three and I 'think' we gave them away, but rusty looking ones turn up at car boot sales. Surely they could be cut down/shaped to suit ?

A picaroon's an awfully useful tool though if you have a load of logs to deal with with any regularity. I'm pretty sure one of the smiths would make you one, but they might prove expensive.

Time to keep our eyes open

cheers,
Toddy

 

[British Red]

As you say Mary - its pretty much a spike on a stick and I kind of resent paying a lot for it. I cut about three lorry loads of wood once a year and the idea of not having to bend so much is awfully appealing. I have all manner of handles around - and a shave horse and some seasoning ash come to that so a helve is no issue. It doesn't want to be too big - one handed use - maybe 2' 6" handle and a 6" - 8" spike - round, square, doesn't much matter. Feels like its something I should be able to whomp up. Could find a cheapy axe head and take an angle grinder to it...seems there should be a better way though

 

[Toddy]

An old ice axe might well fit the bill BR.
Bound to be one kicking around somewhere

I have seen a picaroon made from an eight inch spike nail hammered through a haft. There was a washer on the non spike side to help trap the smallish head, iirc, and the end of the nail had been hooked a little and then hardened.

cheers,
M

 

[British Red]

I have seen a picaroon made from an eight inch spike nail hammered through a haft. There was a washer on the non spike side to help trap the smallish head, iirc, and the end of the nail had been hooked a little and then hardened.

cheers,
M

Thats sort of what I had in mind with the bolt - just grind to a point, couple of nuts and washers to stop it tearing through. It was how to harden the point that I was struggling with. Doesn't need to be the whole bolt - just an inch.

I may just use a bit of threaded bar, grind one end to a point, heat heat the point to non magnetic with a torch, oil quench it and anneal it in the workshop oven. If there isn't enough carbon in the steel it won't work well - but I have some lumps of bar anyway, so I may be out a quid and some effort.

If it definitely wont work, I'd appreciate someone telling me though!

 

[drliamski]

How thick is your threaded bar? I'd say you need something at least 12mm

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[drliamski]

Have you not got an old axe you could grind down to the right profile?

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[petrochemicals]

heat it and quench it, ye old smythee type. The bar is probably carbon containing as mild steel would deform too easily for threads.

Truthfully ask someone to buy a cheap one on there next visit, many hamd mattocks/picks with a chopper on the other side easily avaliable. Nice hard wearing handle too. The postage will cost more than the tool.

 

[Dave Budd]

Most large bolts are a little under a spring temper anyway, so they would work fine like that. If you rig up a small forge then you could harden it to stay sharper but to be honest I don't think it would be worth the effort. I would go for a larger rectangular cross section rather than round since it won't bounce when struck into the wood. A 12mm rod (unles only a couple of inches long) will flex and bounce out of the wood with annoying regularity.

With picaroons its more about the angle of the point than how sharp it is. You may need to bend the spike to make it more comfortable and effective in use, but then being a round bar in a round hole it will rotate in the handle.

Stop being a tight wad and BUY ONE!! If you have so much wood to process then it will be cheaper and easier on you in the long run to buy one than it would be to faff about making a 'spike on a stick' that doesn't work as well and will likely cause frustration

 

[British Red]

You make a good point Dave - aahh well - time to save up I'll be extracting honey soon - if its a good harvest that might cover one!

 

[Macaroon]

Keep your eyes peeled for a brickie's or mason's hammer head, or get a cheapo, and sharpen the long chisel end; good steel, and the long chisel end already has a decent bend in the direction you'd need. And easy to helve well, too ..

 

[British Red]

Now that is a thought - that point would be great and I could just cut off the other side! Great thought!

 

[Zingmo]

Just found this vid . He seems to have done just what you described.

My first thought was to repurpose one of these:

Z

 

[HillBill]

What about modifying an old garden fork? Lop a couple of prongs off, bend one or two of the others....They are made from carbon steel iirc

 

[demographic]

Could you not make one from an axe?
That's what this bloke did.
[video=youtube;Pc3Tpwlmjns]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc3Tpwlmjns[/video]

 

[British Red]

I could.....and I will if needs be - angle grinders I have

I'm liking Macaroons idea right now though - a brickies hammer head with the brick dressing head cut off and a longer handle fitted. Bit of work to sharpen the point. Job done.

 

[Chilliphil]

Something similar worked for this chap...

[video=youtube;rwR22nxGylo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwR22nxGylo[/video]