we are but are the rest ? solar flare survival

[udamiano]

Yes coastal regions would generally fair much better than inland settlements.so taking this further, your veg garden.. if we say that during a single week a family of four would use, say 3 cabbages 5 carrots, 3 leaks, 2 kg of potatoes, 2 sweeds /misc root vegetables to maintain a fairly consistent level of nutrient, add to that say 2 seagulls, a few nuts, a load of seaweed, a kg of shellfish, and maybe a few rabbits, would that sound about right on a weeks consumption for a family. how long would the veg garden last sustaining that level of production, taking into account that there will be times you're waiting for the plants to grow, fruit and nut trees are out of season, coastal resources being over worked by all the locals.
It gets really interesting when you do the numbers.

I'd say about 1 month, then resources would start to run out, in say a town the size of Blackpool, probably less.

 

[udamiano]

BR having read your posts about you're loverly home, I think you would fair much better than a whole load of the population, skills and equipment like canners and such would prove above worth, as would large established veg plots.

 

[Urban X]

Yep you're right it wouldn't last that long, things take time to grow so unless I had some stored veg, which I don't it wouldn't keep up with demand very well, luckily there are only 2 of us and the whole garden is used, but alot of people don't have gardens or they use them for recreation/flowers/play areas, it'd be very hard for the majority of people. Again, luckily I can not only fish with rod & line but can use and know where to put commercial nets, so I'd probably have more fish than I could use, I'd barter that for things I didn't have.

I'd actually prefer to be inland and near to a decent size forest but purely for privacy reasons, beaches are pretty exposed as are boats, but it'd be hard to survive properly anywhere, the instances I gave were off the top of my head after thinking about what I have within walking distance, I don't have transport so if I lived at the other end of town even, it'd be a damned long walk home with water for boiling. Not good.

Wherever I was, I'd have to sit down, think about what is in the vicinity and work out how to use what the other people aren't going to know about or decimate. I'm a great believer in common sense and the ability to think outside the box, sadly lacking in alot of people it seems nowdays.


Si

 

[vizsla]

Im quite interested in being able to survive if the modern world collapsed as for me it goes side by side with my interest like hunting foraging camp craft, carving, shelter building and everything else we all enjoy doing. I dont believe that disaster will hit and we will be without supplies and modern equipment for years and years but i do think with all the changes going on including weather, economy, fuel shortage, solar etc at some point there will be a problem that will effect us maybe just for a short period but unfortunately most people are unable to cope more than a few days without there essentials and thats werw the problems start as soon as there is an inclin the shops will be bare fuel will go then people set into a even worse panic and start stealing etc. And these will probanly be the people that denied the possibilty in the first place.
If you look at how we have changed the planet in a very small time removing trees which were there for a reason. Its probably only 70 years since people have been using large amounts of electric and fuel and there is already significant damage done. Look at the population size increase.
Im no genius but id be a fool to believe that everything we do isnt going to have some sort of consequences. Or look at previous changes ice age for one mini ice age i dont think our country would be able to carry on even close to normal with a miniscule ice age.
Anyway thats just my thoughts cheers

 

[Urban X]

+1 to all of that vizsla, totally agree.

IMHO we are a parasite on this planet and one it can't sustain indefinately. I have grandchildren, what will it be like when they have grandchildren?


Si

 

[British Red]

BR having read your posts about you're loverly home, I think you would fair much better than a whole load of the population, skills and equipment like canners and such would prove above worth, as would large established veg plots.

Its not the kit in my view (although thats necessary of course), its the skills and the time. You can't just whomp up an orchard, a seasoned log pile, a well or the skills to make vinegar, soap and the like from scratch.

I fear our lovely hobby becoming a necessity and the extra work that entails. In our experience, the required growing space for veg is about 20,000 square foot per person, plus about 1 acre for livestock, grazing and winter fodder per person, plus about 5- 10 acres per household for sustainable fuel and orchards.

Probably about 10-12 acres for a family of four will provide a truly sustainable future.

Half an acre per person would be a minimum just for a vegetarian based diet supplemented with some hunted game. CHickens would not be possible on that amount of land.

It would be a thin life at that.

 

[British Red]

for me it goes side by side with my interest like hunting foraging camp craft, carving, shelter building and everything else we all enjoy doing.

Its an endlessly fascinating pursuit of skills and knowldege and as you say - the ethos of discovery is the same

 

[blacktimberwolf]

BR having read your posts about you're loverly home, I think you would fair much better than a whole load of the population, skills and equipment like canners and such would prove above worth, as would large established veg plots.

Growing your own veg (in a cataclysmic situation ) is far from a safe bet...plant diseases, drought, terrential rains or hail can all anialate the crops......& then of course there will be those that don't have food trying to get yours, so unless you live in an armed fortress, the odds will be against anyone growing their own food ....actually eating it.

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

Well ive decided after reading all this if things do break down in a big way it looks like no matter how many skills, how much food, other gear and how much pretty metal you have, your pretty much screwed. It would seem the only route forward would be a good weapons arsenal and a will to use it. But this has always been the way throughout the ages.

On a cheery note, my silver and gold holdings have proved far better an investment than my ISA or pension over the last few years

 

[Urban X]

Your Silver especially, pretty sure it'll keep going for a few years yet, already tripled in price since 2009 apparently.


Si

 

[blacktimberwolf]

There is also another thing we may be short of in the future.......& that's oxygen. All the oxygen on this planet comes from plant life......the tropical rain forests provide a large part of that oxygen & since we have cut down and continue to cut down immense parcels of these forests surely that is going to effect the quantities of oxygen in the air....The majority of the oxygen, around 60% comes from marine phytoplankton ... with rising sea temperatures & the melting of the polar ice caps which will alter the salinity & acidity of the oceans, the phytoplankton are likely to have great difficulty surviving.

Grass & deciduous trees & shrubs only provide a small percentage....

Maybe there is already less oxygen in the air today than say 50 years ago, if so, what will the air be like in another 50 years if we continue to destroy our oxygen factories.& before someone writes that oxygen only accounts for around 20% of the air we breath.I'd like to point out that that 20% is vital....cough, cough, splutter, splutter...

 

[Urban X]

Absolutely with ya on that one. It's nearer 80% of our oxygen is produce via the oceans and the amount of CO2 they're having to absorb now is what is killing them, it's widely believed that our coral reefs could collapse worldwide in the next 20-30 years and if that happens the oceans will die pretty soon after, as will life as we know it.

That and the population being out of control are what I believe are our biggest threats.


Si

 

[vizsla]

The im alright jack, is the problem people put things like this to the back of there minds as long as there ok at the moment. If every one did a veg plot and a few other precausions there wouldnt be half as bigger problem if something did happen. There can be wars going on that we are involved in and people dont give it a second thought as its not affecting them yet.
I can imagine the conversation now when people turn up at the door wanting food and we tell them we need it for our familys"but im starving" well maybe you should have stored some "but i didnt think owt was gona happen" neither did i but i thought it would be an idea to have enough food for my family incase. Now clear off before i shoot you with my slingshot

 

[Bluebs4]

the london riots gathered pace in alarming speed ,one silly comment from mr cameron about the fuel and the country went nuts !!!!! we have become so dependent its unreal ,after posting this thread the lift went down in the hotel i was staying at and the gripes about having to use the stairs from able bodied people was unreal , so i think fit as well as being strong minded is the key ,,,,,posted this on bb aswell and man them guys are nuts ,,,,they started stocking up on pizza n beers LOL

 

[Urban X]

....There can be wars going on that we are involved in and people dont give it a second thought as its not affecting them yet.

Oooh I think about those alot, especially the cost of 'yet another' conflict we follow the US into, and especially when we're told we've all got to tighten our belts and hey let's squeeze the poorer in our society a bit more, so we can afford to do it, ooh and better lay off a few more of said troops as the wage bill is another kicker.... Still won't we all look good with our 18" waists.

But to get back on topic, yep it's sure not the same now as it was when I was a kid and neighbourhoods were communities, there are a few sparks of hope out there though, Mr. Whittingstalls land share program was a good idea, and lot of the cookery programs now (which attract big audiences) are extolling the virtues of growing at least some veg even if it's on a balcony. I think those that have had it easiest money-wise are the ones least likely to cope in a real emergency, those who have had it hard and had to make do and mend will not be as phased.

Who knows, it's all theoretical atm....


Si

 

[lannyman8]

well what with all this doom and gloom i better rush off and get some more ammo, i should have enough stuff laying around the house to make something that goes boom though...

in all seriousness though, id stock up on ammo and salt for preserving things, if meat got short id just shoot a rioter.....

as it is i will be in afghan when it happens so the ammo should be fine, plenty of grenades, claymores, UGL and phos grenades too, 5.56 ammo tons 7.62 link billions of the stuff...

if it happens it happens, i cant afford to prep anything so it tough anyway......

 

[Retired Member southey]

I think Chris, with all this doom going around we should count our selves lucky that we live in the places we do and o the jobs we do, out of town, defensive, medical support and a large technical skill base on site, stores of relevant supplies and normally surrounded by farms of one kind or another.

 

[British Red]

We could always abrter lannyman

 

[Laurentius]

For all this talk of decline of society, there are still lots of examples where people do join together for common purposes, be that charity fundraising, sport or whatever. The folk I have met down at the allotment so far seem friendly enough and welcoming to newcomers. In fact I discovered the existence of these allotments after doing a good turn for a neighbour, who asked if I could take an old carpet down to the allotments for him as he doesn't have a car.

Although I am very much the loner who might want to sit out difficult times away from it all. I can see the value cohesive local communities. People do survive in the worst of times in the war torn cities of the world.

 

[British Red]

Absolutely right Laruentius - local communities have always worked together. They still should. Towns are just battery farms for people. Our little group of houses (just a few families) all "hang together"