Water purifiers

[Brixton]

I'm toying with the idea of a water purifier
Seen the pre-mac pocket
it says on the pack that it's good for 60 litres but on the web site it says 50 litres
Is this any good?
can you re-fill it?
What does it do that iodine tablets and boiling doesn't

Brixton

 

[zambezi]

I have used the pre-mac during a week-long hike and it certainly supplied all my drinking needs and kept me free of stomach upset. It does not do anything that boiling or an iodine treatment wouldn't achieve [pre-mac uses iodine], but it offers ease of use on the move. For example where you might not have the time it requires to stop and boil the water, or in cases where your drinking system holds 3 litres but your billy is just 1 litre, it obviates 3 boil ups, etc.

 

[andyn]

I use my pre-mac pocket filter more as an "emergency" (used loosely) to purify a cup of water when i've run out of the water i'm carrying. It isn't refillable (from what i can tell anyway) but does the job well for short term water purification.

 

[Marts]

Woodlore instructors did a test of the pre-mac. After 200 litres of constant use the thing was still working. Apparently one of the biggest drains on its life is use in really dirty water.

 

[ozzy1977]

I have one of these http://www.katadyn.ch/site/int/home/outdoor_products/our_products/endurance_series/pocket/
Only used it once, so cant realy say how good it is yet. bloddy expensive though

 

[gregorach]

Yeah, I've seen a test by some big important international organisation (possibly WHO) which found much the same thing - if you aren't trying to filter raw sewerage, they last well beyond their rated capacity.

 

[andyn]

Marts, Dunc that is interesting to know....thanks for the heads up!

Apart from becoming ill...is there a way to simple way test if the water being produced is still pure? or will the pump just stop working?

 

[Brixton]

Apart from becoming ill...is there a way to simple way test if the water being produced is still pure?

Give it to the in-laws?

 

[andyn]

LOL.... after laughing out loud for apparently no reason and getting some rather odd looks from my colleages. I just thought I'd say thanks for cheering my afternoon up.

 

[Chopper]

I have a Trekker, and have placed a 3" square of my other halfs stocking (no tights in this house) over the end that you would place in the water, this stop's a large amount of dirt entering the pre filter, thus extending the life of the filters.

I have read somewere that the iodene element of the treatment does have a limited life span, the best thing to do is give Premac a call and ask.

 

[Hawthorn]

I have an MSR water filter, but have been thinking (having read a few of these discussions about filters on BCUK) that as quick filtering and boiling will do the job, why not just carry a millbank bag (as they pack very small) and boil the water? Saves space in the pack and money in the pocket, and you should always have the time to use them.

 

[moduser]

Hawthorn,

I always have a millbank in my pack as a backup (they are not fast filters) to my MSR waterworks (which is a brilliant filter but bulky).

Moduser

 

[R-J]

Hawthorn,

I always have a millbank in my pack as a backup (they are not fast filters) to my MSR waterworks (which is a brilliant filter but bulky).

Moduser

dont they do the same job, or am i miss informed? the time/effort it takes to work a water-works can be spend doing other things. if you use a millbank bag (like the British army have been using the world over for years) you fill up, hang up, do something else and wait for it to filter. then add iodine or boil which you have to do with a MSR as well. seems abit of a waste of time/effort to use the MSR

ps, i have a MSR as well but i'm thinking about just gettin a millbank bag to replace it

 

[moduser]

R-J,

The millbank is a lot slower. If you decide you need a drink and have to collect the water with a millbank you've another 30 minutes wait. With the MSR 30 seconds of pumping will result in half a litre.

If fact with the Waterworks I very rarely boil the water afterwards as the ceramic element is good for 90 plus percent of what makes you ill.

I keep the millbank incase the MSR fails.

Moduser

 

[R-J]

i thought the millbanks were faster then that. guess i'll have to get one and try it out. more toys, what a shame...

 

[leon-1]

There are always pro's and cons to any filtration system or purifier.

Pre-Mac pocket purifier - pro's - small, light and you could carry a couple with no problem at all. They are simple to use and you do not have to boil the water afterwards.
Con's - You have no way of knowing when it will pack up, you have a maximum of 120l and a minimum of 50 litres before it seizes and will no longer allow water through. Some people cannot use iodine for medical reasons. They have a relatively slow flow rate @ 200ml per minute. They cost £20 and are disposable (this to me equalls expensive).

Pre-Mac Trekker - pros - easy to use, the filter and purifier cartridges can be replaced.
cons - They cost £60 and work for approx 400 litres of water before having to pay approx £38 for a new cartridge, the flow rate is better than the pocket however it still isn't brilliant. they still use iodine so cannot be used by all.

Katadyn Mini - pro's - They cost £70, will filter faster than a Pre-Mac, only by 100ml per minute, works on a 0.2Micron Filter and lasts for upto 7,000 litres, there is no purification stage so no nasty chemicals to worry about. Cleaning and maintanence kits can be bought but normally a scouring pad will do the job. Replacement cartridges cost about the same as the premac but last a lot longer.
Cons - they are 20gms heavier than the pre-mac trekker, you will still have to purify the water by either boiling or with chemicals in some regions of the world, but at least you get a choice.

MSR Mini Works - Pros - has a very good flow rate at around 1 litre a minute, carbon filter will remove the taste of idodine or chemicals, will fit directly onto the neck of certain water carriers and there are plenty of addons available for it.
Cons - it is heavier than the others 456gramms, it is larger than the others, you still have to either chemically purify water or boil it. It costs more than the others, approx £75 RRP and the filter cartridge life is 2,000 litres.

The Millbank Bag - Pro's - anyone can use one, they are lightweight, pack small and cost little and you can see when they are wearing out. They also come in 2 sizes.
Cons - you will still have to purify the water after use, they have a deplorably slow flow rate on the individual models.

Conclusion is that the millbank bag is the most economical of the filters and simple to use, but not neccesarily the fastest method on the planet of purifying water.

The Pre-Mac's both work out as being expensive in the long term (don't get me wrong I like them, I just think that you are paying a lot for them), but they are pretty much fool proof because they both filter and purify in one fell swoop, which makes them ideal for people on the move (like the armed forces).

Katadyn's have been at the top of the tree for a long time with thier pocket filter, the mini filter follows in the same tradition but is smaller and doesn't cost so much, they are quite economical because of the massive life of the ceramic filter cartridge and they are reasonably small and light.

MSR, has an excellent flow rate flow rate, a good life for the cartridge and some smart add - ons and ideas.

If I was in the market for a filter it would be between the MSR and the Katadyn, but I would carry a Millbank Bag as well.

I actually do carry both the mini filter and the millbank bag on my trips as they do what I require of them.

 

[moduser]

It's always a shame to HAVE TO get new toys

 

[Hawthorn]

Its a big topic, and I'm sure everyone will have their specific methods to filtering the water, but I never rush anywhere when I'm camping so always have the time to use the millbank and boil a few litres when need-be. Which is why, although I have the MSR Waterworks I won't be taking it anywhere (I'll leave it at home incase something serious happens), and I'll stick to weight and space minimalisation (or at least give it a trial for a while).

 

[Prickly Pear]

My views can be taken with a pinch of salt seeing as I own none of these products. However on some quick research on this matter. An interesting article which isn't to laborious to read can be found on theroyal geographical society page:

RGS Article

As stated here and on another website selling the Millbank, it appears that it takes around 5 minutes to filter one litre. However it's the iodine treatment that should be left to stand for around 30 minutes; that is the real time killer.

Now although the article listed above states the Millbank bag as unlimited usage in litres. Surely its fibres will clog to a point where by its performance will decrease regardless of cleaning.

On Gear-zone however they have a product which looks suspiciously like the millbank. And it seems they've managed to pluck a 200 litre usage figure from somewhere (The only one I’ve found) and stuck it in the pre-product description.

http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/Water-Purification.html

The MSR Waterworks (WW) and MiniWorks (MW) both respectively give 2000 litres due to the same ceramic (Marathon EX) cartridge which costs, at the moment, £20.00 from fieldandtrek.com.

The only difference between the WW and MW is that the WW incorporates the ability to use a Second-stage PES membrane for further filtering (ofcourse at extra cost). These both weigh in at over 16 oz (with the WW at 19 oz). So the mini is hardly mini

Seeing as though the WW is DOUBLE the price of the MW, its a large price difference just for the ability for one extra filtration level. Obviously not a lot of features for designers to play with on this one for a varying demographic. Not exactly as if you can have a budget version that only screens 60% of the nasties, and a supremo model that does 90% . They both require the same main ceramic filtration giving the same exacting standards. As this main carbon core removes 'unpleasant tastes and odours caused by chemicals, such as iodine, chlorine, and pesticides' and also 'removes bacteria, protozoa (including crypto and giardia), and particulate'; it appears it does not leave much for the secondary filter to worry about does it!! Infact the MSR website lists no reasons in particular as to having it other than offering a double filtering process !! I do not believe either that any further purification process is further required (chemical or otherwise) with either the Mini or Waterworks - (going by the MSR website) due to the nature of the ceramic filter utilised in both. So methinks the Waterworks version is for those gear fiends that have to have the best whatever the cost (myself included...god im tempted).

Rant over *sigh*

*new rant*...

Including the initial outlay of £70 for a mini (can be even cheaper if sourced from the states), first time round its economy is 3.5p per litre. On filter replacement (of £20.00 - near enough the cost of a new Millbank bag!) its repeated running cost is further reduced to give 1p a litre. Which to me appears very economical indeed. The Millbank, if kept to 200 litres @ £16.00, is 8p per litre each time. Reminding ourselves of the processes involved in water collection and filtering with a Millbank bag and time involved in waiting for iodine purification, I have to ask, where's the bargain here?

Yes, yes i know....its all about weight!! So there’s the new Katadyn Exstream XR Water Filter Purifier. A 3 stage water bottle / purifier all in one, at £30 when sourced from the States. This purifiers maximum usage is stated at 100 litres, and at $19 (£11) (+ postage!) a go for filter replacement, works out at 11p + a litre. With a replacement rate 20 times that of an MSR, postage costs would really add up in receiving cartridges (if there was no outlet store nearby). However weighing in at under 8oz (half that of the MSR's), is it enough Or too high a premium to pay to reduce your load by just over 250g?...

Anyway as stated in the beginning, I know nothing, am probably wrong and most of that marketing bull on which what I've said is mostly based is completely irrelevant in real world practice. Got to start some where though!

Steve

 

[addyb]

I have a Katadyn, and it works wonderfully. I know people with MSR filters, and I think they are absolute #$%^*(). I can't stand the flimsy little handle that they have either.

Because I live in BC, the need for me to filter my water is not so great. Even so, I do tend to take the filter with me from time to time.

Last week I went to one of Nanaimo's gear stores, a place by the name of Alberni Outpost. I was looking for iodine tables to place in my emergency survival tin. I learned two things:

a) No store in Nanaimo will carry them

b) Iodine builds up in the system over time. Now, I don't know how unhealthy that is but it frightens me.

And so....I'm in trouble. I desperately need to find some sort of purifying tablet to use in my tin, but I don't know what else is available considering how little room I have in it.

Oh well....back to the drawing board. Erm....filter