Warm Boots?? - Help appreciated!!

[Agile]

Hi,

I'll soon be joining other members on this forum for a little "jolly" down to Norway, where we expect it to be a tad nippy (around -30C).

Although I believe I'm pretty sorted for 90% of my gear, I have a bit of a worry about my boots, specifically the thermal properties of them.

I've taken them out to the Brecon Beacons where it was -6, closer to -15 with windchill and there wasn't an issue at all. That was with "summer" coolmax socks, but I've never been in -30 conditions and so cannot tell how they are going to perform.

Ive got a pair of Meindl's which seem to be listed as a 3-4 season boot:

http://www.ellis-brigham.com/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/211049||@c@bMeindl|0|user|1,0,0,1|19|

They were purchased with the UK use in mind, and as such fit me perfectly when tight laced.

I've also ordered some decent socks to replace the coolmax ones whilst in Norway.
http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/30606/

I've just spent 2 hours re-proofing the boots (there's probably an extra inch of wax on the outside now!!) and I shall use some gaiters in combination with the boots to try and prevent unnecessary exposure.

Does anyone have any other ideas of what I can do to further improve the warmth of these boots?

I do have in the "emergency" drawer a set of toe warmers - although I've never tried them.

Any other tips??

Ag

 

[spamel]

You need to wear a few pairs of socks and keep moving! I have a set of Sorel Caribous that I bought for the German winter, but I never actually got to use them. One day, they will get the use they deserve.

 

[Agile]

You need to wear a few pairs of socks and keep moving! I have a set of Sorel Caribous that I bought for the German winter, but I never actually got to use them. One day, they will get the use they deserve.

So would I be correct in saying that a smaller pair of 200g/sm merino wool socks could be useful (if I can get them to fit)??

I've also seen articles saying that too much restriction prevents bloodflow - thus reducing movement - so which is better?

Are there places to hire boots for just two weeks?

 

[spamel]

If you're gonna wear two pair of socks, you're gonna need bigger boots. Tight boots are bad for a number of reasons. Blood flow, as you mention, so that could enhance the possibilities of a cold injury. Deformation of the feet over time, leading to other problems with your back and what not. General discomfort, you won't enjoy what you are doing as you'll be miserable about your feet. Possible blisters from rubbing parts. Make sure you get a good pair of boots, take the socks you will wear in the boots with you so that you know you have a good fit, and go after lunchtime to try them on as you will have been on your feet for a few hours and they will have spread to their normal size. Remeber that saying that in the morning you are a centimetre taller than you are at night due to your spine compressing the discs? Seems your feet work in a similar way!

 

[rich59]

Hi Agile,

I am on the January party too. I am told to expect -10 in day and -20 in night. Where did you see -30? So I think the boots are fine. They look very like mine that are:- Chilkats from North Face.

My understanding about socks is that there should be a comfortable fit when in full use all day.

 

[Mike B]

Many years ago when on exercise over there in coditions down to -40 we had were issued with these and found them to be quite good. the other alternative is to get new boots specifically for your trip and do as Spamel said n get the socks first and wear them when your trying the boots. Mike B...

 

[big_swede]

Get a couple of pairs of heavy wool socks and you will be alright. Wear double socks, reduces risks of chafing and increases insulation. Make sure you don't let those boots freeze over night 'cos they are a bitch to defreeze. Also make sure you don't restrict the blood flow. If they feel tight with heavy socks you should consider buying new ones.

 

[Yonderer]

I'd recommend you buy yourself a pair of decent pac boots. The Sorel Caribou are sufficient for -30C if you can get them.

I prefer Baffin boots myself. For a winter hiking pac boot I use Baffin Mountain Pacs.
They're nice and light. Not bulky at all and I prefer a lace up boot.

http://www.baffin.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=86

Buy your pac boots a half to a full size larger than what you normally wear unless the boots fit larger than normal.
Along with the pac boots use a heavy merino wool sock and a polypro sock liner.

 

[big_swede]

Sorry, I disagree yonderer, pac boots are ace for going on a snow mobile, but totally worthless if your walking any longer distances.

My 2 p worth...

 

[Agile]

Hi Agile,

I am on the January party too. I am told to expect -10 in day and -20 in night. Where did you see -30? So I think the boots are fine. They look very like mine that are:- Chilkats from North Face.

My understanding about socks is that there should be a comfortable fit when in full use all day.

The "-30" figure is what I have mentally in my mind, although I know we should expect -20, I'd far rather be too warm than too cold.

Cheers all for the tips, from what I can see, if I don't want to replace my current boots then it's better to go for a full wool sock and not restrict my bloodflow than two socks and restrict - it's also highly likely that I won't be able to fit two socks into my current boots.

Cheers for the note about freezing boots - not something we really have to worry about, as they get little more than a slight frost in the UK, so I'll take a bag so they can snuggle up with me at night

 

[bikething]

We had -20 for a couple of nights on the december course, and I believe January is supposed to be colder.

I used a pair of the arctic socks Mike B pointed out (allegedly the ones with a red stripe are better ) with thin cotton liners at the start of the week when the temperatures were a little warmer at -10, but as it got colder wore a pair of merino walking socks inside a pair of those arctic socks. - This was inside a pair of Berghaus goretex walking boots (the warmest boots I owned, and the only pair big enough for 2 pairs of socks without cutting off the circulation!) - over these I wore a pair of Yeti gaiters which worked well, though Snow still managed to get between the gaiter and the boot, melt and freeze overnight - some mornings I had to wear the boots for 20 minutes before i could do the laces up properly!.

The only time my feet were cold was when stood still in the snow for any length of time (you soon learn to cut a few spruce boughs and stand on them if you're going to be still for a while), and in my sleeping bag (Nanok-10).
With regards to the sleeping bag i'm still not sure if it was not enough insulation round my feet, or too many socks reducing the circulation - using a nalgene bottle as a hot water bottle helped, and ensured a bottle of non-frozen water for the morning brew!

 

[penvisser]

Agile,

offcourse the boots you have are very good boots for walking, and as long as you walk and move around there will be no real problem, but...sitting still, for example near the cooking fire, what ever, standing still and talking, these are getting real cold.! I have bin to Finland, temp only -15 degree Celcius and was very happy wearing my Kaniks, rated to -70 C !!!. All the people there were walking on such boots, Kamik, Sorel, local brand.
The great advantage is the removeable inner felt sole, and please remove it when going to bed/sleeping bag. In this way they can dry. When the thick felt liner get wet, they will lose a lot ( all ) resistance to the cold. When you want to wear extra socks in your shoes wearing at the moment, these will have to be 2 sizes larger as normal, and i dont think you bought your shoes two sizes too big.....am I right?

Believe me, when you food are getting cold, they will not be warm very easy, thats a nasty feeling during a nice trip.
you were feeling right when you said I am a bit worried about my shoes, follow that feeling mate, its called instinct or common sense.
Believe me , I am not involved in any shoebrand.

Sorel have nive models, the Caribou is very good, the Chieftain ( not easy to find in the right size) etc. I bougt Kamiks, woking boots, with toe safety plastic caps,all leather outerlayer. These are used on oilrigs in Alaska, Ice sea etc.
Thick inner felt sole.

Check the net, there a some interesting retailers around, esp. US.

have a very nice trip!

Best regards,

Jan

 

[sam_acw]

Remember, the boots are there to protect your feet from the elements not keep them warm.
To start with you want two or three pairs of good wool socks. I like the seamless ski socks as they are comfortable and don't give blisters. Mors Kochanski recommends 3 pairs but I;ve never been out in less than about -15 and 2 pairs has done me fine.
Inside the shoe you need some sort of innersole. I get on fine with a felted wool innersole but if it is really cold I recommend a mesh one.
Finally don't lace your boots to tight - you don't want to reduce circulation and get cold feet that way!

 

[penvisser]

Remember, the boots are there to protect your feet from the elements not keep them warm.

I disagree with that, mate. Its all about design. The kamiks for example, I would not use them here in the Netherlands, Luxemburg, Finland (summer and Autumn) but I do when I am going on our yearly trip to Finland and Poland in winter, why, they are designed for the enviroment there, in cold circumstances. An average boot is made for activity, support. When walking on bare feet in summer, I often do it, i dont get cold feet. In winter, i dont wear my my croqs, why? my feet are getting cold. The insulation of a warmth booth like Sorel, kamik, is much much more than the meindl in the pic. I have worn Meindl Perfekts, Island Pro, Army pro. And I do agree, in these you have much better walking/hiking boots, but for subzero circumstances? No thanks, mate.

All the best,

Jan

 

[spamel]

I got my sorels from http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ which is a really cheap place. Bearing in mind I was still in the Forces when I bought them I had them sent straight to Germany so wasn't hit with any Tax which you might if you get them sent to the UK. Also, they charge postage on the number of items you buy and not the weight, so sometimes it is a good idea to buy a few bits of kit off of them. They stock well known brands and there are bargains to be had, but check postal rates and what you may get hit with Tax wise first.

 

[big_swede]

Penvisser, there are good shoes for hiking in winter, MUCH better then sorels. Yes they were used for oil rigs for working, i.e. a lot of standing still. I use sorel glacier for snow mobile trips, but for walking? H3ll no!

And as everybody probably understand, sorels won't be of much use in the UK. Get some decent oversized unpadded hiking boots instead. (With a lot of heavy woolen socks).

These are my experiences from the arctic parts of sweden, norway, finland, and spitsbergen.

 

[Yonderer]

Sorry, I disagree yonderer, pac boots are ace for going on a snow mobile, but totally worthless if your walking any longer distances.

My 2 p worth...

These aren't the snowmobile type of pac boot. I don't like those either. These are a lace up hiker style boot with the removable liner. I've walked and snowshoed many miles in them.

 

[Yonderer]

I'm not talking about pac boots in the style of the Sorel glacier, BTW.
We tend to call any winter boot with the removable liner a pac boot here.

 

[Agile]

you were feeling right when you said I am a bit worried about my shoes, follow that feeling mate, its called instinct or common sense. /QUOTE]

Cheers everyone for your advice - I think I will follow my instinct on this one, bite the bullet and get some decent "snow" shoes whilst I am out there in Norway (I've got 4 days to acclimatise before the trip).

I've just taken delivery of the expedition socks and whilst they are excellent, the thicker of the two pairs already feels uncomfortably restrictive inside my boots.

You were correct when you said I didn't buy them two sizes to large, instead I bought them exactly right - they fit like a glove and have served me brilliantly over the last few years taking me up and down a fair few UK mountains, but for this expedition I think they will have to spawn a brother.

Cheers all for your advice, I think you have confirmed my suspicions that I'll be miserable if I take these boots.

Ag