Ventile..What are the alternatives?

[Celt_Ginger]

There is much talk about the value of Ventile fabric, but, are there any alternative natural fabrics that do a similar job. I know af another cotton based fabric that uses 30% more cotton than normal in it's construction, and all are long stable fibres, it is totally wind proof and will swell when wet to help with the water repellency, just as ventile does, yet for reasons of copyright cannot be classified as ventile. Is "Ventile" just a brand name like "Goretex" or "Hoover"?

 

[John Fenna]

Yes - Ventile is a brand name and it did used to have very similar construction competition including something called "Grenfell cloth" but as far as I am aware there is no current cloth to rival Ventile.
I love Ventile in every thing about its performance (though if the manufacturer is not careful stitching can act like perforations in lo roll...) but the price is painfully high - but justifiably so due to the weaving process etc -
If you know of an alternative that is as good and cheaper I am VERY interested! Tell us more please!

 

[Ogri the trog]

I know af another cotton based fabric that uses 30% more cotton than normal in it's construction, and all are long stable fibres, it is totally wind proof and will swell when wet to help with the water repellency, just as ventile does, yet for reasons of copyright cannot be classified as ventile.

If you know of an alternative that is as good and cheaper I am VERY interested! Tell us more please!

Likewise CG,
I would be very interested in learning about similar materials that are free of the prohibitive price tag.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Celt_Ginger]

SASS make an olive green smock with all the qualities of ventile, but is not actually ventile. I have spoken with the people at SASS at length about the construction of the material, and it would seem that it is the same as ventile in all but name.I have bought one and tried it out and it performs fantastically well, and cost just £125.00. I have no connection to SASS, just a satisfied customer. I'm afraid I don't know where they source the cloth, but it would seem that there may be a Ventile alternative out there.

 

[leon-1]

Talbot weaving, the people that make ventile have what they class as seconds, this can be due to the colour match not being quite correct or a single pulled thread on a butt. Effectively it's flawed in one way or another (this can be the smallest thing and as a manufacturer you cut around it).

Effectively this is ventile, it costs considerably less, however it cannot be sold as ventile as it has not passed their quality control and as such when it's sold to people they do not get the "V" or "Ventile" sewn in tags.

Could this be what SASS are using because as far as I know the only thing that compares to ventile that isn't is this.

 

[Celt_Ginger]

It is possible I suppose, but I got the impression that they can get this cloth without any problem at any time. I may be totally wrong here of course.

 

[leon-1]

There are always seconds mate, Talbot weaving have pretty much the highest standards there are.

 

[andy_e]

Isn't Gabardine similar in some respects to Ventile?

 

[John Fenna]

No - not many!

 

[Simon H]

I have one of the SASS smocks made from the ventile clone material, and I'd have to agree it's fantastic.

When I ordered it last year, the story goes that Alpha security were doing a tour in Iraq and wanted smocks made up for their personnel, made from material that they would supply themselves. Anyway Sass made the smocks and noticed the similarities in materials and found it's source. It's a company in the States producing it.

They are very friendly, I'm sure they'd tell you where it came from exactly if you asked.

 

[Toddy]

There's a cotton cloth, very finely woven, intended for Muslim ladies' over gowns, and it must not allow the shape within to be seen when backlit. There is also a very much heavier version used for overcoats and the like, the gabardine, though in the UK this was frequently woven from worsted spun wool. Both of these fabrics are waterproof to at least a similar level to ventile. Sourcing them is another matter

Interestingly my cousin's wife, who runs a company making specially commissioned sailing wear, had never heard of ventile, and when it was explained to her, she saw no benefits to be gained using it.
Horses for courses I suppose.

Me? I like ventile, it very quickly becomes incredibly comfortable, it's reliable, long lasting, spark proof and, the orange versions apart, it's subtly coloured.
I would be interested in finding new sources of natural fibre fabric though.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Simon H]

I just thought I have a sample of the material from Sass that they sent me to look at before I bought the smock.

If anyone wants them to do a comparison (subject to me finding them) let me know.

 

[Jedadiah]

I just thought I have a sample of the material from Sass that they sent me to look at before I bought the smock.

If anyone wants them to do a comparison (subject to me finding them) let me know.

I think John Fenna is the man for that task. What he does'nt know about Ventile or most material for that matter, is'nt worth knowing. He's a font of knowledge (although i've heard him called other things! )

Just for reference, the older pattern SAS smocks (not SASS) and by that i mean the ones produced before the current 'Field Jacket' version, were made from cotton gaberdine. The older pattern Para smocks were made of Cotton Modal. This is a heavier, denser cotton which was more robust than gaberdine but absorbed water more and became heavy as well as taking longer to dry out. As gaberdine was lighter, windproof and quicker to dry out but was succeptable to wear and tear troops in the know got around the problem in an ingenious way. They would take a SAS / Arctic windproof (yes, there are differences) and a para smock. We would take the pockets off the para smock and replace the pockets on the windproof with them. Then, use the sleeves of the Para smock as elbow patches on the windproof as well as the woolen cuff's. The old pockets from the windproof were then sewn inside the smock to increase the carrying capacity. This made the smock more hard wearing. Heavy items such as magazines etc could be reliably carried in the outer pockets without fear of wearing through the finer gaberdine material. Lighter items could be carried in the inner pockets. The smock was still windproof and dried quickly but the elbows took longer to wear through and when they did, you just replaced the cotton modal patch.

Just thought i'd share that with you......................................I'll get me coat!

 

[John Fenna]

Thanks (?) for that Jed!
Modal is derived from Beech trees, the reconstituted cellulose in fact - a bit like Rayon - is tough but heavy and in my experience, nowhere near as wind or water resistant as Gabardine and although soft and cozy on the skin was Carp at keeping Toms happy....hence the alterations I guess!
Used it myself - not impressed too much....
As to fabric comparisons on Ventile and A N Other - could be difficult as I no longer have the lab kit to perform scientific tests, but if someone wants to give me jackets in the two fabrics I will do empirical tests......

 

[Simon H]

John I can send you a piece of the ventile type stuff from Sass if you like.

 

[maverick moocher]

I also bought a SASS olive green smock last year and its seems that i've covered the same ground as Simon, I saw the smock in Combat and Survival Magazine, the description of the cloth with " 100% cotton, dense weave, long staple fibres" etc led to me phoning and asking how similar this is to ventile, The cloth was indeed sourced in the southern states and is so similar that I can't tell the difference(not that I'm an expert) I ordered on the strength of my chat with the guy at SASS as this seemed like a no brainer to me at the price that it was, I also have an old DPM Ventile sas smock that compares very well like I say. Ask for a sample before buying? why didnt I think of that

Steve