Ventile "SAS" style jacket

[Polecatsteve]

Guys, I emailed the good folks over at Hilltrek.co.uk who produce (what I consider) some of the best functional ventile outdoor clothing there is.

I asked them a couple of questions. Would they consider a bespoke order or consider selling this style? They got back with this:

Hi Steven
We have made SAS Jackets and Smock of various variations over the last few years as bespoke orders.
Our capacity for doing bespoke stuff is diminishing because we are very busy and also never recover the time spend on bespoke stuff.
We have been considering the SAS Smock/Jacket as a product but the wide variations of features concerns us e.g. take a look at the wide range of designs on e-Bay
We would appreciate your input on the design that you think would be accepted widely by the bushcraft community .
Do you have any photographs for example?
Does it have to be double Ventile or would a single Ventile or even hybrid solution be suitable?
Look forward to your reply
Best Regards
Dave
Hilltrek Outdoor Clothing
Ballater Road
Aboyne
Scotland
www.hilltrek.co.uk

I am 100% positive they would value the input of not only me, but the community.

So prior to replying to then what are you, the peoples, thoughts?

Personally I wanted something much like their hybrid Braemar wind shirt.

Double ventile hood and shoulder/upper arm. Single elsewhere for drying time. Two breast pockets, two Hand warmer pockets and two bellow pockets on top of them.

The usual big toggle buttons for gloves hands. That's it. No wire brim(maybe plastic tube?) I'll gather feedback here and reply to them or direct them o this thread.

Thanks

Stevie.

 

[Klenchblaize]

A direct copy of this but with padded elbows and in Ventile:

K

 

[John Fenna]

I have designed my own - based on the '60s SAS smock - and make it in various fabrics.
Double yoke and elbows, single elsewhere, four oversized and boxed pockets, big plain buttons, drawcord hem and hood, internal drip strip but exposed zip.
It works for me!
Ventile - ish mid weight

Waxed cotton

Light weight windproof cotton cambric

 

[smogz]

I'm not that excited over the lower pockets. If you're carrying a backpack the waist belt will be over those pockets.

The breast pockets are not very easy access with that construction. I would go with a Napoleon style side entry pocket with a zipper. And double layer in shoulders and elbows.

But maybee I'm leaving the realm of SAS-smocks now.

 

[John Fenna]

But maybee I'm leaving the realm of SAS-smocks now.

I guess you are - the 4 pocket design is pretty fundamental to the SAS smock design

 

[Allans865]

I guess you are - the 4 pocket design is pretty fundamental to the SAS smock design

SAS Smock design has worked for me in all my years in the military. Wouldn't change anything about it 🖒

 

[John Fenna]

I have just googled "1960s SAS smock" and in amongst the images is one of me in my Waxed cotton smock!

 

[Arya]

That is some fine work you've done there John Fenna!

 

[Bazooka Joe]

A direct copy of this but with padded elbows and in Ventile:

K

I like the look of that. Just did an image search and found out who makes it, and how much it costs. Nice, but a bit out of my price range.

Any ideas on how much a limited run of ventile smocks would cost?

 

[The Lord Poncho]

I would probably guess at £180+ . The fabric alone is very expensive. About time there was another Bushcraft UK ventile jacket group buy though!

I would vote for a standard british arm,y issue sas/windproof smock design too. True to the original design, it would have double thickness hood and shoulders (and elbows), four patch pockets on the front. The only possible modifications would be to add a line of stitching aeround the other edges of the pocket fabric (as per more modern issue smock pockets) so that they keep their shape better and look smarter, and possibly add a D ring or tape loops inside the pockets to attach items too.

The chest zip pockets used in more modern smocks are very handy, but i would imagine they would add significantly to the cost...

 

[Leshy]

That ventile ish mid weight is just top notch Mr Fenna ..
I wish I had one of those...

👍

 

[Polecatsteve]

I have owned / sold on a Fjallraven smock as the lovely Scottish rain just soaks into it and it takes forever to dry out.

The design is perfect tho.

Okay I will suggest the above to the guys at Hilltrek.

Styled much like Fjallravens, double shoulders and hood...can't go wrong!

 

[Philip Sheldrake]

Hmm, £180 is very optimistic if you look at prices on the Hilltrek site. My guess would be nearer £250 for the sort of spec people are talking about.

 

[The Lord Poncho]

Hmm, £180 is very optimistic if you look at prices on the Hilltrek site. My guess would be nearer £250 for the sort of spec people are talking about.

Yes - you are sadly probably right! These fellows may be an alternative option to Hilltrek, and their website actually advertises that they do a bespoke service:

http://www.weatherwisewear.co.uk/ventile-list

I've not actually come across them myself until the other day, so can't make a recomendation, but i did track down their ebay shop which has some actual prices (e.g. £160 for an over the head single layer ventile anorak)

 

[Steadfast]

Yes - you are sadly probably right! These fellows may be an alternative option to Hilltrek, and their website actually advertises that they do a bespoke service:

http://www.weatherwisewear.co.uk/ventile-list

I've not actually come across them myself until the other day, so can't make a recomendation, but i did track down their ebay shop which has some actual prices (e.g. £160 for an over the head single layer ventile anorak)

Interestingly, the single ventile jacket on eBay for £160 can be bought from the weatherwisewear website for £145. It looks like it may be less easy to pull on than a Hilltrek equivalent because it has no side zips, other than that it looks to be a good option at a decent price.


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[lou1661]

For me i would have bellows chest pockets, angled to make access easier. hand warmer lower pockets without bellows. Double layer hood (no wire) shoulder yoke and elbow. full zip and pit zips would be nice too.

Louis

 

[CLEM]

As per standard SAS smock, added wired hood, double ventile, pit zips, d rings on chest pockets and in a verity of colour me too,

 

[The Lord Poncho]

Interestingly, the single ventile jacket on eBay for £160 can be bought from the weatherwisewear website for £145. It looks like it may be less easy to pull on than a Hilltrek equivalent because it has no side zips, other than that it looks to be a good option at a decent price.


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Yes, i stumbled upon that too after negotiating their slightly 'rustic' website for a while! The hood design looked slightly strange to me too, but quite a tempting price.

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up,

Gonna be devil's advocate here (Maybe even save you a shed load of wonga!)

How about this, as a straight purchase or as a design basis -Austrian Surplus, KA03 issue Combat Jacket.


2 x Zipped, Napolean breast pockets = secure; accessible with ruck shoulder straps; no buttons to catch or loose.
2 x Zipped, slash waist pockets = secure; accessible with ruck waist belt; no buttons to catch or loose.
1 x Zipped, patch pocket on left sleeve = useful; accessible; no buttons to catch or loose.
2 x Internal breast pockets = useful storage; additional wind resistance on the chest.
Hidden, two-way, front zip and hidden buttons wind baffle = secure; draft-proof; no buttons to catch or loose.
High collar with drawstring neck.
No hood.
Buttoned cuffs;
Internal waist and hem cord-lock draw cords = no toggles/cords to catch/loose.
Jacket is poly cotton - very hard wearing, spark resistant and it dries out reasonably quickly.
Potentially one tenth the price of the Ventile jacket being discussed! (I paid about £35 for a Grade 1 used one and £50 for NOS un-issued one then mod'd it).

IMHO the above has more utility, more style and a more (low-key) favourable casual appearance than the patch pocket combat style smock - (unless you don't mind faffing with those pockets whilst wearing a ruck, filling the pockets and walking around looking like an explosion in a balloon factory!)

How did I arrive at the KA03 format?

Decades of wearing the four patch pocket style in all manner of material/combinations.

Plus more recently -

A Ventile Smock - bespoke made -double shoulder yoke; double elbows to wrists; double hood - cost over £250!
Originally taupe in colour then dyed green; nice feel to material; way too expensive; dries out slowly; smock design a pain when adjusting mid layers in winter; dyed green and relegated to summer use.


A Fjallraven N08 Smock
G1000 material, mostly single layer; cost - at lot!; Greenland wax system - good at reducing wear damage, cr*! for waterproofing;
way too big a hood; windproof; great colour(s).



My advice - don't waste your money on Ventile in the first place, it's good but not £££ that good;
Spend less money, buy a better design (in poly/cotton) and if you need to, have it mod'd to your own spec;
If you positively have to have Ventile -
i) buy second hand if you can and really try the material out, if you like - keep it or sell it on to finance upgrade.
ii) if you go for bespoke Ventile - at least choose a design/colour(s) that are not just BC practical but provide use of the jacket in other situations so that you get maximum value for money (unless you like walking around the shops in a combat smock design )

Told you I was gonna be devil's advocate!

 

[Polecatsteve]

The point of the post wasn't to discuss the pros and cons or whether you like smocks. It was asking what features people would like on a very particular (and arguably best style field jacket).

Nor a debate on ventile. It's is a fantastic cold an wet weather material. I own a smock I use for fishing made of it but want a British army style field jacket made from it. As it's perfect for outdoor use.

Thanks though.