Ventile or Gortex

[fast celt]

Which makes the best waterproof jacket:
Single layer ventile
Double layer ventile
Gortex
By waterproof I mean will it with stand 2 weeks torrential rain and hard use say in Scotland. (Normally get good weather when I go but the midges are evil)
John

 

[gregorach]

I'm not sure that anything will stand 2 weeks torrential rain in Scotland. Either the rain soaks through, or you suffer from condesation problems, or both. No membrane will breathe properly when it's effectively under water.

However, remember that Goretex isn't the only breathable waterproof fabric. I'm using a lightweight North Face jacket made from HyVent DT, which I find very good, and I know a number of people on here rave about eVent. But still, they can't breathe when it's raining heavily and humidty is at or near 100%.

I certainly fancy trying Ventile, but I'm not sure about it's suitablity for several days of continuous torrential rain. However, it is hard wearing and much more thorn resistant than a membrane fabric.

As usual, the answer is "there is no best". There are only different trade-offs.

 

[Graham_S]

this question reminds me of a quote from another member,
"for winter get buffalo, for bushcraft get ventile, for scotland get wet"

personally i'd lean toward double layer ventile, however in those kind of conditions you're gong to get wet anyway.

 

[Dougster]

Have you considered soft shell - like the outer of a gore tex without the membrane, you're gonna get wet, but with it you'll stay warm and dry out. I used it in the Cairngorms (Patagonia one) and it was superb. I have a bombproof hardshell for when I stop.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I live in scotland and a gortex jacket is the best thing I ever bought to protect me from the rain. Waiting for the bus, train or walking sucks when you get wet.

Pete

 

[Shepard]

I`d suggest poncho and chaps. Totally waterproof and breathable. Downside is if its very windy, but tying a string around your waist helps. Yeah and it doesnt look very fancy while waiting for the bus

Softshells are excellent because in high activity levels youre going to get wet anyway from sweat, but they dry out very fast.

Heard good things about Event, but after a day in the rain this gets wet too rumour says.

 

[addyb]

Comparing Ventile and Gore-Tex is like comparing apples and oranges. Two completely different fabrics with two completely different uses.

Ventile is (I believe) better suited to cold, dry environments. For this reason it's used by the BAST. That said, it holds up in rain extremely well considering that it's made of 100% cotton. However, after a couple of hours it starts to soak through, even with a double layer garment. That's when wearing a good thermal such as wool or fibre pile or fleece helps a lot. The first thing that you'll notice with wet Ventile is that it gets stiff like cardboard and then it starts to become heavy, almost like wearing a suit of armour.

But this is only the fabric doing what it was designed to do, it gets wet, the fibres swell, you're supposed to stay dry. (Sortof) Having to put a soppping wet Ventile anorak into your tent every night for two weeks in Och Laddie Scotland doesn't sound very enjoyable to me. I like to brag about being BCUK's resident outdoor clothing fabric junkie and in my narscissistic opinion, you're much better off using Ventile when it's cold and snowy.

Now on to Gore-Tex....

Gore-Tex is made from a waterproof breathable laminate of PTFE (think teflon plumbers tape) with billions of little microscopic pores in it. These pores are too small to let raindrops in, but large enough for perspiration to escape. Standard WPB garments are generally waterproof to a hydrostatic column of water measuing around 20,000mm but some are much more. Gore-Tex, Event, Hyvent, Entrant, and all the rest are basically 100% waterproof. But there's a catch. The PTFE laminate (or a PU coating, depending on the manufacturer) is extremely fragile, and must be backed by a standard fabric such as polyester or nylon. And so the face fabric is coated with a DWR (durable water repellent) that makes rain drops bead up on the surface. If the rain drops were to soak through the face fabric, they create a later of water between the coating/laminate and the outside ambient air. This means your jacket stops breathing and you become soaked in your own perspiration. DWR's are NOT permanent and must be looked after. Putting your jacket in the clothes dryer on medium-high heat for a couple of minutes every few months will revive and redistribute the DWR along the face fabric. And once a year or so you should probably re-proof a WPB jacket with a commercial wash in or spray on jacket.

Alright, there's how the fabrics work and if I were you, I'd go for a WPB jacket. You'll stay drier!

Cheers,

Adam

 

[rjbaal]

I have become somewhat of a Ventile junkie. I find it much, much more comfortable to wear as it breathes much better than gore-tex. So my evaluation would be:

Cold and Dry-Ventile no question

Very Cold and very very wet Gore-tex IMHO Gore-tex is more water-proof for long term exposure to heavy rain but if you are very active you'll get just as wet from sweating. I think the breathing claims for gore-tex in the real world are overstated. Also, for city wear in heavy rain when you are not so active (like waiting for a bus) gore-tex is fine

Everything else- Ventile, especially for tramping about in the woods. Ventile, without a doubt in quieter and more comfortable to wear.

I have both single and double layer ventile garments. If its warmer and less likely to rain very heavily I take the single. If its colder and more likely to rain heavily I go double.

 

[vinnie]

At the moment I use an SAS Windproof smock in olive green (no-longer available now unfortunately).

This is very much like Ventile as I understand it. I find it is great to were even when raining. But as mentioned above when it gets soaked it gets heaver and stiffer as the threads swell. I have found I get to wet inside but the coat does gets soaked through and it then takes time to dry through and in in the backwoods for a week or more drying it can be a problem.

I don't mind been wet as long as I am dry which is were garments like Buffalo tops come in as they keep you warm even when soaked. Ventile on its own has no insulating value neither does Gortex.

I have found in the past Gortex while good at keeping out the rain when you are working hard even if its not raining and you are using it as a windproof you get condensation.

For this reason I would go with Ventile.

If you want light weight then it has to be Gortex or eVent

Out of interest Keela who make some Ventile clothing are a Scottish company but they class it as country clothing and for Hiking etc. make a Gortex take of fabric.

 

[quarterstaff]

Ventile for me,a wicking tshirt,wool shirt(swandri) and a single layer ventile smock is the most comfortable and practicle wear in the woods and hills I have found.I also find it dries pretty quick,if kept on,others have stated it takes ages.The snowsled classic smock,with a bit of help,folds into it's own front map pocket for stowing.Gortex makes me sweat alot(I run hot anyway) and is not to clever when there are thorns,brambles and fires about,but,saying that, I have a swazi coat(triple layer gortex with some sort of micro fleece on the out side)that I intend to give a good work out this winter and see how that go'es.The best advice I have heard about heavy rain is,get out of it.
cheers

 

[sharp88]

I'v never worn ventile before and I'm not so sure why everyone likes it so much, but I think it might be partially due to a nostalgia because its an older fabric than Gore-tex. I'd get a ventile smock if they weren't so expensive, so instead i use a mint £50 german army Gore-tex, that came in its origional bag when i got it.

Ventile is proofed cotton? Right? Gore-tex makes me sweat, but then again so does everything else - but it keeps me dry. Does anyone have any torrential rain expieriences with Ventile? I might consider getting one because I prefer natural fabrics to synthetics, but I find I dont get the rain protection.

I was in Eastbourne, in the South East a few weeks ago and my Swanndri mosgeil started to give in to the rain....

 

[fast celt]

Thanks to every body for their views and advice
I've just being across to snugpak and bought a West Wind Airedale single layer jacket It was in the seconds department because (it said on the tag) "Been washed to try out some cleaning solution". The normal price is £160 I gave £90 it was the only one, Think i got a bargian. Plus they said if any things wrong i can take it back and it will be put right.
Still going to keep the Gortex for heavy perlonged rain.

John

 

[addyb]

Sharp,

No, actually Ventile isn't proofed although some people use Nikwax of Grangers products on them every so often. Ventile is one of those really unique pieces of outdoor kit that is in it's own category. Sortof like Jimi Hendrix and guitar. Nothing else like it before, and nothing else like it after.

It's actually quite fascinating how the fabric works because it goes against the grain of everything I was ever taught about outdoor kit. It's 100% cotton but it's woven into an extremely tight oxford weave. It's so tightly woven that if you were to ever try and re-dye one, you'll only get one side of the fabric coloured. So, it fends off a lot of rain because of how tight the weave in. But being cotton, after a while a bit of water does start to soak in. And that's Ventile's big secret. When it starts to get wet, the individual fibres in the weave actually expand and tighten up. (At least, that's in theory)

The sad truth of the matter is that when Ventile gets wet it gets bl**dy heavy and bl**dy stiff and takes ages to dry. But that's cotton for ya! And because it has no waterproof coating or laminate, a garment can't be seam sealed. That means after a few hours in the rain the seams start to leak. I recently retired my anorak, but I'm thinking of taking it back to a tailer to extend it's life by a few more months. It's pushing 40 years old and I love it to death. How many people do you know with 40 year old Gore-Tex jackets?

But you know, it's GOOD stuff and I actually prefer it over my WPB garments. It's a heckuva lot more comfortable to wear and even when wet breathes far better than anything high-tech on the market. Just wear a wooly pully sweater or a fleece jacket underneath one and you'll be set. If it worked for RAF pilots on WW2, it'll work fine today.

Cheers,

Adam

PS: My Dad gave me a brilliant piece of advice once and I'll never forget it. "When you're on a trip in the bush, you're going to get wet no matter what you're wearing. But the name of the game is to not get as wet as everybody else."

 

[sharp88]

Ahhhhh i seeee thanks addyb.

Woah sweet they have those green SAS smocks for £60 in springfields still n i dont think they sold out!

 

[sharp88]

O wait, sorry Small & Medium only. Damnnnn im gonna have to break my ribs to fit in one now!

 

[Charlie_Croker]

The designers at Debenhams range featuring Nigel Cabourn had single layer hooded Ventile jackets last year priced at £189 in Dark grey or Olive. In the sale these slowly reduced to £89, then to £45 ending up at £35 you will occasionally find one in the sale racks normally a Small though.

There are some pictures at http://www.cabourn.com/

http://www.cabourn.com/

and for info on ventile go to

http://www.ventile.co.uk/

 

[Lithril]

If you're going to be getting as wet as you say you are I'd forget ventile completely, its fantastic until it get saturated, then its like wearing wet cardboard and very heavy. If you don't mind being wet the buffalo gear is good as at least you stay warm. The new event fabric is meant to be extremely good although I've not had the opportunity to try it yet. There is also Paramo who make some cracking garments.

Must admit I'm not that impressed with Goretex as I usually end up wet in light rain. My next top will most likely be a buffalo.

Matt

 

[Montivagus]

I have recently become a convert to the church of Ventile. I bought a Ventile smock from Bison bushcraft about a year and a half ago and since then it has become a second skin in much of my outdoor life. The only exception to this is exposed hill walking in moderate to downpour rain where Gore-Tex wins hands down.
For all my woodland foraging/ferreting I use the Ventile. Its quiet, breathes great and spitting fires don’t convert it into an expensive colander unlike Gore-Tex. In heavy rain I have worn a second Ventile”Windshirt” from Snowsled under the smock to great effect; the under garment offsets problems of leaky seams, one of the bigger problems with Ventile in heavier rain.

 

[sharp88]

My old man always said they got pretty soggy and nasty, but I didnt beleive him this much because he was talking about the 1980s army smocks, which I reckoned were a different kettle of fish.

Apart from the comfort and wind stoppage, what good are they really? A swanndri seems to be the much better choice than any ventile smock. Its warmer and waterproof to an extent. Even if it gets saturated it bearly permiates the lining. Im talking about a mosgeil btw or lace front.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I recently retired my anorak, but I'm thinking of taking it back to a tailer to extend it's life by a few more months. It's pushing 40 years old and I love it to death. How many people do you know with 40 year old Gore-Tex jackets?

"

Well, Goretex only came on the market is 1989, so noone will have a 40 year old jacket yet, lol.