Veganism

[dommyracer]

I found this post on google and copied and pasted it...

 

[bambodoggy]

Hi Bam.
I would have thought that if an animal had died a natural death it means that it's body had packed up through old age or disease. Maybe the question should be more about eating roadkill in an extreme survival situation? I would, although I doubt I could keep it down for long.

Lol....yer, they'd be a bit chewy at that age wouldn't they On the other hand the skin is perfectly serviceable, as are the antlers of a deer and sinew etc or maybe it was a young squirrel that fell out of a tree and died young (I'm making this up here in case anybody wondered ).

I pretty much know the answer but I'm interested more in how a vegan views the use more so than a vegitarian who may already wear a leather belt but does not eat meat for another reason (religion, health, detox etc). A vegan abstains for more or less purely ethical reasons and as there is no killing or abuse of the living creature I wondered if their thoughts might be different.
I'm fairly sure the answer is a big no from most of them for fairly obvious reasons but I'm just interested in the whys and hows of it all. There's no right or wrong answer, each person can and should do as they think right and not be judged by another for that choice.

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[madrussian]

O.K. since you insist, before I can poke fun, I guess I need to know a little bit more about the vegan philosophy. For example, I noticed you said that you don't eat honey. Is it because you feel that taking honey from bees is explotation or cruel? If that is the case, then what about alcohol? Does a vegan drink alcohol? Or is that considered exploitation or cruelty of the yeast microorganizms?

What exactly is considered an animal? Does size matter? (pun intented) Does it include one celled organisms? If it does then does that mean that someone who practices vegan philosophy does not drink chlorinated water, or boil water to destroy the harmful protazoans and bacteria that live in it, or spray disinfectant to kill harmful bacteria around the home? Does the philosophy only apply to multicelled organisms? Would someone who practices veganism spray pesticides around their home to kill roaches and other disease carrying insects? Or swat a mosquito that just landed on them looking for blood to reproduce?

What about cutting the lawn? Is it o.k. to cut the grass, possibly killing the insects and small animals that live therein?

What about rats and mice? Does it mean that someone who practices vegan philosophy does not exterminate rats or mice in their home?

Who defines what is considered exploitation or cruelty? Is it left up to the individual or is there some guru somewhere that says what is acceptable or not?

I guess I don't know enough about the philosophy to comment or poke fun at just yet.

 

[pataviking]

i think vegan lifestyle would fit better to a farming comune than bushcraft. heard something about eating squirrel killed cleaned and cooked by bush crafter, do you make your own soy milk, tofu or grow your own soybeans. do you eat yogurt? isn't it made by some bacteria growing/ eating something, by the that is lactose free yogurt. and early man did step up when he made the clovis point to use for hunting and supplied himself with a steadier food supply. but besides protein there is also the IRON sourcin the meat. i am not vegan but if you were to give it a go tropical farming gathering would be the way to go in my mind. move to Hawaii

 

[Marts]

The fossil evidence allows us to trace the gradual increase in brain size over the past two or two and a half million years with some degree of precision. The average brain size of Homo habilis, who lived approximately 2 million years ago, was 750 cc. Homo erectus shows this transition most dramatically; indicating that most of the evolutionary increase in brain size took place during the life of this species. Early Homo erectus in Africa (from about 1.7 to 1 million years ago) averaged 900 cc in brain size, but later Homo erectus specimens from .5 million years ago average 1100-1200 cc, which falls within the range of the brain size of modern humans. The earliest or archaic forms of Homo sapiens, the species to which we belong dates to 300,000-400,000 years ago and averages over 1200 cc. The Neanderthal skull, second from right, has a brain size of 1500 cc, which is actually larger than the brains of most modern humans. The average for Homo sapiens sapiens, is around 1400 cc

The human brain size has fallen 11% in the last 35,000 years--with the bulk of that decrease (8%) coming in the last 10,000 years.

Eh? Where? how? What??

Homo Erectus specimins half a million years ago were about 10% smaller brain size than us. Fair enough.

But where have we lost 11% in 35,000 years? Surely you don't mean in comparison to Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis? Since we're not descended from them. Maybe it was their big head that caused them all the problems eh?

Besides - If Actual brain size was all that mattered then the Sperm Whale would own us all.

 

[Marts]

And back on topic.

I would think it would be extremely hard to survive on a vegan foraged diet in this country nowadays. Perhaps in prehistoric times it would have been possible with an intimate knowledge of resources at a socieatal level to do so, but then I expect anyone who tried to do it back then would have been soundly for turning down the nice bit of mammoth that Dad had just risked his life hunting.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Hmmm statistics? I quote Mr Disraeli!

And here is my source:Statistics

Can't find the :tongue firmly in cheek: smilie though...

 

[PhoneticHalo]

O.K. since you insist, before I can poke fun, I guess I need to know a little bit more about the vegan philosophy. For example, I noticed you said that you don't eat honey. Is it because you feel that taking honey from bees is explotation or cruel? If that is the case, then what about alcohol? Does a vegan drink alcohol? Or is that considered exploitation or cruelty of the yeast microorganizms?

What exactly is considered an animal? Does size matter? (pun intented) Does it include one celled organisms? If it does then does that mean that someone who practices vegan philosophy does not drink chlorinated water, or boil water to destroy the harmful protazoans and bacteria that live in it, or spray disinfectant to kill harmful bacteria around the home? Does the philosophy only apply to multicelled organisms? Would someone who practices veganism spray pesticides around their home to kill roaches and other disease carrying insects? Or swat a mosquito that just landed on them looking for blood to reproduce?

What about cutting the lawn? Is it o.k. to cut the grass, possibly killing the insects and small animals that live therein?

What about rats and mice? Does it mean that someone who practices vegan philosophy does not exterminate rats or mice in their home?

Who defines what is considered exploitation or cruelty? Is it left up to the individual or is there some guru somewhere that says what is acceptable or not?

I guess I don't know enough about the philosophy to comment or poke fun at just yet.

you could always google your questions before asking im tired so just going to send some links ruther than type loads out.

bee's = http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

beer = http://veganconnection.com/notvegan.html

what is an animal = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal

yeast or bacterial are not animals. Yeast is a fungi me thinks ....... and i kill bacteria all the time cause i have an immune system sucks


Vegans do not cut grass! first thng you learn in vegan school. yeah i cut mine im just a bit more carefull. There are lines you have to draw. i am a earthling so while im here im taking up some space and resources that will affect other earthlings. I just try to do the best i can. There are also way of geeting mice and rats out with out killing them

i look up things im not sure about then make a decision using my brain. its not to hard not manythings are to hard. say the hardest thing for me is are pets ok?


p.s. also again what with the need to poke fun?

 

[madrussian]

p.s. also again what with the need to poke fun?

Don't have to, just seems like a subject I could have a little fun with. Actually, I wish more people were vegan. That way meat prices would go down and I could BBQ alot more. I have no problem exploiting animals, especially the tasty ones.

 

[PhoneticHalo]

Don't have to, just seems like a subject I could have a little fun with. Actually, I wish more people were vegan. That way meat prices would go down and I could BBQ alot more. I have no problem exploiting animals, especially the tasty ones.

the prob is that when you do that your messing with more than just that animal. in the end it affects the planet. thats the reason i feel the issue is an important one. exploiting anyone or anything is never good in my eye's. do you include humans as animals???

 

[spamel]

I would much prefer to farm for myself in a self reliant way, but the work involved is so great and the result is not immediate that you would need a fair wedge to start off with. I don't like the idea of cattle being herded into trucks and driven across europe without water to drink and such like. I know we use them for their meat and for leather, but it would be nice to appreciate that fact by treating them with a bit more respect whilst they are alive.

I like to think animals are killed humanely aswell, although I've seen some horrid clips that people pass around with their mobiles and Sheeps teeth or whatever it's called, and they didn't look like they were killed with the greatest of respect. I couldn't work in an abbatoir.

 

[madrussian]

Explain. In what way does eating an animal effect the planet? When a lion eats an animal, does that effect the planet? Should we kill off all preditors. If predation didn't occur we would be overrun with animals and disease would be rampant.

The key is balance. Everything balances out. Too much rain results in flood, not enough results in drought. Balance is prefered. The same applies to eating meat or using animals for clothing, etc. One that eats nothing but meat will suffer health consequences from it. Some that do not eat meat may not get enough protein, granted not all , but some of us need it or cannot afford not to have it. I prefer a balance. I don't support cruelty, but I don't agree that taking honey from bees is exploitation or cruelty if done properly.

 

[locum76]

Explain. In what way does eating an animal effect the planet?

cow farts (methane gas) are apparently one of the biggest contributors to global warming.

When a lion eats an animal, does that effect the planet?

lions are carnivores, they don't have a choice. we have choices and everyone should live as their conscious allows and make choices accordingly.

I don't agree that taking honey from bees is exploitation or cruelty if done properly.

i don't either but i'm not a vegan.

live and let live man.

 

[bambodoggy]

Explain. In what way does eating an animal effect the planet? When a lion eats an animal, does that effect the planet? Should we kill off all preditors. If predation didn't occur we would be overrun with animals and disease would be rampant.

I suspect (but could be wrong) that he's talking about the massive swaths of rain forest that have been cleared to graze cattle on to provide meat. As a meat eater that is not something I'm very proud of.
On the flip side, there is iirc from something I saw on the discovery channel a while ago now more of a problem in Brazil with deforestation to grow soya.

If I might be so bold, I tend to think the problem lies more with over population of the world rather than what an individual eats.

I prefer a balance. I don't support cruelty, but I don't agree that taking honey from bees is exploitation or cruelty if done properly.

That high lights pefectly that we're all different mate......and what a boring place the world would be if we were all the same

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[madrussian]

cow farts (methane gas) are apparently one of the biggest contributors to global warming.

Exactly, thats why we need to eat them. If left alone they would overpopulate thereby increasing the amount of methane in the atmosphere. You see, I am doing my part to control that.

lions are carnivores, they don't have a choice. we have choices and everyone should live as their conscious allows and make choices accordingly.

Agree totally, my conscious is just fine.

I suspect (but could be wrong) that he's talking about the massive swaths of rain forest that have been cleared to graze cattle on to provide meat. As a meat eater that is not something I'm very proud of.
On the flip side, there is iirc from something I saw on the discovery channel a while ago now more of a problem in Brazil with deforestation to grow soya.

If I might be so bold, I tend to think the problem lies more with over population of the world rather than what an individual eats.

Not so much overpopulation as miss management of the earth and its resources. The earth is plenty big enough to handle a population of 20 Billion humans and more if managed properly. Deforestation occurs for raising crops as well. If more people eat plants, more land will be needed to raise the crops they eat. Again it has to do with miss management. Balance is needed. One extreme or the other causes problems.

 

[Tengu]

Or you could be like a person I once met who had a smallholding on his flat balcony. Dwarf rabbits and bantams.

(And you could argue that the wee beasts were rather cramped; but you could also say that about a flat dweller.)

 

[JonnyP]

Exactly, thats why we need to eat them. If left alone they would overpopulate thereby increasing the amount of methane in the atmosphere. You see, I am doing my part to control that.
If more people eat plants, more land will be needed to raise the crops they eat. .

But if more people ate cows, we would need more cows to feed them.......
As for methane, why can they not stick a pipe up the cows jacksie going to a collection tank on its back, and the gas used for powering vehicles....

 

[madrussian]

But if more people ate cows, we would need more cows to feed them.......
As for methane, why can they not stick a pipe up the cows jacksie going to a collection tank on its back, and the gas used for powering vehicles....

Your right. Thats why I keep mentioning balance. There are those that eat mainly meat. Too much meat I feel. You see them in the buffet lines at the local resturants without a green spot on their plate. Personally, I eat mostly vegatables when I can, but I still like my meat. As for methane, I don't consider it as much of a greenhouse gas as CO2. A couple of hundred years ago the North American plains were covered with Buffalo. I don't think that greenhouse emmissions were big a problem then.

 

[twisted firestarter]

cow farts (methane gas) are apparently one of the biggest contributors to global warming.

vegans contribute a fair amount of methane to the atmosphere too

 

[akabu]

some humor and more .take the time to read.
http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/humor/index.shtml

http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml