Vargo Triad XE Help!

[Pignut]

I have a Vargo Triad XE and can not get the meths burner to work reliably!

I have used the wind deflector recomended on the web site etc all I get out of it is a very fierce burn to start (Hot enough to melt the first windshield I made out of foil!) then hardly any burn at all (I have yet to bring 1l of water to a full boil)

I am following the manufacturers instructions!

What am I doing wrong!

 

[stevec]

Hi mate, i got one of these, not really used it in anger yet, but got a pint to boil no probs, i used the widshield from my whisperlight, but left a small gap say 10-13mm round the edge of the pot. also i noticed that some of the burner holes were not punched out well and had to use a safty pin to push out some swarfe on a couple.
hope you have better luck
steve

 

[Pignut]

Will check out the holes and have a look!

 

[buffalobill]

I had teething problems with this stove - just make sure you prime it really well.

I got 2 (3/4 full) crusaders of boiled water out of one stove-full the other week.

 

[cyclist]

don´t try to boil a full liter.
Better split it in 2 half liter parts - remember: meth. spirits contains only half of parafin/petrol(gasoline)/butane BTUs

The Triad is made from titanuim?
That makes it even worse since titanium is the least material useable to fabricate an alc. stove from due to its thermal conductivity (it needs priming even at moderate temperatures etc. for some numbers scroll down www.brasslite.com/about.html titanium .157 vers alu 2.125 and brass at 1.220) - I´d for sure take brass or aluminum.

For the same reason I don´t like the Trangia clone made by Tatonka - stainles steel is even a tiny bit worse than titanium

p.s.
priming is pure science : use only a few drops for priming- just enough to heat up the main fuel. Excessive priming fuel will just waste a lot of main fuel without increasing the heating power.

Did you use a lid on your pot?

 

[Pignut]

Thanks all!

I think i may be over priming the stove! and prbably trying to boil to much water in one go!

will give these tips a try and get back to you!

 

[Pignut]

Still no joy with this!!!

What is going on!

 

[Lurch]

I'm coming around to the idea that what is going on is that these stoves are crap.
I've the XE and t'other one, both chuffing useless for anything other than a novelty item.

 

[Pignut]

I am coming round to this way of thinking! There is certainly no room for it in my pack at the moment!

 

[Martyn]

I'm coming around to the idea that what is going on is that these stoves are crap.
I've the XE and t'other one, both chuffing useless for anything other than a novelty item.

It's a great design, I dont think I've ever willed a stove to be good as much as this one, but the XE is a piece of junk.

The stand is a great idea but the stove itself is flawed terribly. The side ports mean that the jets go out almost horizontally, which is great for big pots, but who carries 8 inch pots and a titanium ultralight stove? Also, how do you refill a hot stove with a sealed lid without handling it? You have to wait for it to cool enough to open the lid in order to top it up. Priming is a nightmare and very fickle - awfull when it's windy. I found it to be difficult to prime, poorly designed, difficult to refil, underpowered and generally untrustworthy.


The other version of the triad is a little better - well it is if you bore out the fill hole. It's still underpowered, difficult to prime in windy conditions and generally untrustworthy. It does work better than the XE, but still not a patch on a trangia. If only it were made of brass!!!

These mini alcohol stoves need to have a certain thermal mass to work efficiently in all weather conditions. The very thin stoves and stoves made of titanium and steel etc, simply dont have that thermal mass. They will work, but you have to get the fuel inside them boiling first, this makes them very fickle to use.

I think the humble trangia, plus westwind type stand and foil windshield is extremely difficult to beat. It wins on so many points. It's efficient, hot, reliable, robust, easy to prime, fuel conserving, you can simmer with it, it will take almost any pot size, you can light it in strong wind, it cooks well in bad weather, it's reasonably light, easy to refill, it's compact, very stable... etc.

It's the benchmark stove. Anything else has to be better than this to find it's way into my daypack and frankly, I dont think anything is better than this. It draws such perfect compromises between weight, robustness, efficiency, output etc.

Just add a tinfoil windshield. Beautifully simple and simply beautiful.

 

[Wayland]

Simple solution. Get rid of the burner, get rid of the meths and use Esbit fuel tablets instead.

Works a treat.....

 

[buffalobill]

These mini alcohol stoves need to have a certain thermal mass to work efficiently in all weather conditions. The very thin stoves and stoves made of titanium and steel etc, simply dont have that thermal mass. They will work, but you have to get the fuel inside them boiling first, this makes them very fickle to use.

I think that is the key point here and why mine took a fair bit of priming before working efficiently.

 

[Martyn]

I think that is the key point here and why mine took a fair bit of priming before working efficiently.

I think all mini stoves suffer from this to some extent, but the triad is particularly awfull.

The civi model trangia by contrast, is particularlt good. It has the perfect thermal mass. It's made of brass, thin enough to heat up quickly, but thick enough to retain that heat and transfer it to the fuel inside.

Even the military trangia found inside swedish kits isnt as good, it's thicker and heavier than the civi model, which means it takes just that bit longer to heat up and prime.

You can go lighter and thinner or use something other than brass, but I think the tradeoff will always be in how easy it is to light, especially in bad weather and how quickly the stove gets up to working temperature.

The more I try alternative stoves, the more I think the civi model trangia has the issues absolutely nailed.

 

[Glen]

I think that is the key point here and why mine took a fair bit of priming before working efficiently.

Seeing as you've got one it might be worth putting some fibleglass/rockwool or similar inside the stove and seeing if that helps keep the alcohol temperature up.

 

[Stew]

Interesting stuff there chaps. Helps me understand the tradeoffs between the styles easier.

 

[bikething]

Seeing as you've got one it might be worth putting some fibleglass/rockwool or similar inside the stove and seeing if that helps keep the alcohol temperature up.

I've tried filling it with rolled up aluminium mesh, copper gauze, and wire wool..
The steel wire wool worked the best at retaining the heat, but i had to use so much to have any effect that it halved the fuel capacity... and it was a pain to put the lid on without getting a few strands stuck between the lid and base and jamming the lid, making it nearly impossible to get off again

 

[cyclist]

Simple solution. Get rid of the burner, get rid of the meths and use Esbit fuel tablets instead.

Works a treat.....

... to have the smell of rotten fish and pay a fortune . No thanks.

Trangia T25 (or T28 or Westwind or Clikstand - plus windshield )or Brasslite plus windshield or Kelly Kettle plus some DIY engineering and the cooking problems are solved

as for the Triad: on www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Cook Gear/Stoves/ you´ll find some helpful ideas and a Mfg. comment

 

[scanker]

Just borrowed my mates stove, so I'll try and have a play over the next couple of days and will report on how I get on with it. One thing I did notice just now is that if you don't fit the lid square, some holes get partially obscured on the low side.

 

[Pignut]

Thanks for all the info chaps!!

I am working on a mod at the moment! Top secret of course (Will post some pics when I am done)

out of interest My civvi trangia is still in my stove at present!

 

[scanker]

Just used my mates stove tonight. It seemed to work fine. I used it with my titanium alpkit mug (+lid). I didn't measure the amount of fuel but guess it was about 3/4 full of IDA. I splashed a bit about the bottom of the pot stand to serve as a primer and lit it. It took about 30s to boil the fuel in the stove and the "rose" to form. After that, I put on 500mls of water in the mug and it took about 9 mins to bring it to the boil. It burnt on for about 6 more minutes.

I think that apart from the priming, the main factor in the stove functioning well was the windshield. I used one I made using these instructions. It's a very good fit on the mug, about 1/4" space all around.

I don't think it would be able to boil 1 litre on one lot of fuel, but it faired well for the 0.5L.

Not sure if that's much help to you pignut really. Only advice really is to try to boil a smaller amount and use a good windshield.