stovie said:Valid Bushcraft tool???
No!
Why???
Cos I can't make one in the bush
out of interest it has been proved that you can make a G** out of wood and that it has been proven to actually work
Valid Bushcraft Tool??
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out of interest it has been proved that you can make a G** out of wood and that it has been proven to actually work
KLENCHBLAIZE said:
Well, if your membership here hangs on so slender a thread, may I be the first to say...
Goodbye.
Good grief, why on earth do people think that such threats will carry any mileage?
Anyway, on with the discussion, minus a couple of members I would think...
Neil Mac' said:
What's not acceptable is people making threats.
The logout button is on the top right hand corner.
Cheerio.
Tony, please can we make threatening to resign a bannable offence?
stovie said:Valid Bushcraft tool???
No!
Why???
Cos I can't make one in the bush
I have to agree. What next? Is my mitsubishi shogun a valid bushcraft tool?
KLENCHBLAIZE said:As for my shouting I simply will not apologise for something I feel so strongly about. Please though be assured I will refrain from further comment in respect of this thread as both you and Tony request. I really have nothing further to add to my stated position anyway other than unity = strength.
Cheers
K
QUOTE]
Hi Klench,
Hmmmm, I ought to have made my post more clearly. It was the capital letters, combined with the gun and the topic of the post which contributed to the SHOUT factor.
We're not deaf, we do hear your point and your obvious enthusiasm for your sport. The forum is a place for discussion as one would have when out in the woods with a few friends or comfortably esconced around a good fire on a crisp cold night with amiable company.
Bcuk as a whole is a well regarded site, it doesn't get blacklisted because of content despite the wide ranging nature of the material within, it doesn't raise red flags and the Mods don't take restrictive action lightly.
The vast majority of people in the UK beileve guns belong in the hands of soldiers, deer stalkers and (rarely) policemen. You may rail against this as much as you wish, however the public see dead children, the horrors of Kosovo and Iraq, the two girls killed in the drive by gang shooting and American style shoot outs, as very bad things with one common denominator....guns.
While this conveniently ignores the reality that the gun is merely a thing until it used by someone, the perception that if the gun wasn't there it couldn't be used, carries an awful lot of weight.
Unity may equal strength but it's not a united front, and I doubt that the forum members will be dragooned into marching in time while someone else beats the drum.
Cheers,
Toddy (aged 47 and a half
I don't want to sound patronising in pointing out the obvious, but we are all using computers of some description.
Working towards ideals is good, even if they are impossible, but if we are realistic none of us depend on bushcraft full time in the sense that we use our skills in the bush, maybe a lot of the time for some of us. Well, that is if we say that bushcraft is only practiced in the bush, which would seem to make sense, but the thing is environments change, and building a lean-to in your back garden when you have a perfectly good house right in front of you is daft, unless you are doing it for recreation. So, this would deem most of the skills we practice in bushcraft a recreation, because they are not necessary to our survival.
But even given all of that, is bushcraft a recreation, or is it actually a way of life? Not to sound contradictory, I was under the impression that the skills you learn while practicing bushcraft are applicable in any situation, and that in doing so you use the best tools to hand. The idea that guns are not to hand to those who own them seems baseless to me. Sure, in a survival situation then there are factors like limited ammunition and difficulty keeping it in good clean condition, but surviving isn't living, right?
If you want to kill an animal for meat, whether you use your fist or an extension of it is neither here nor there, since it's not about fairplay, we are higher up in the food chain.
I try and live in the simplist way i find possible, and my experience of bushcraft and the outdoors influences many of my decisions, but i am a student and i live in the city. We can all practice bushcraft, but if we wanted to live to the lowest common denominators of basic sustainance and shelter, then we would not be using this forum. The truth is we are embracing the advances of technology, and there is nothing inherently right or wrong about that, it just is.
If that all sounds like total bull**** then i apologise!
I only aim to stimulate discussion, not stir things up.
-ian
Working towards ideals is good, even if they are impossible, but if we are realistic none of us depend on bushcraft full time in the sense that we use our skills in the bush, maybe a lot of the time for some of us. Well, that is if we say that bushcraft is only practiced in the bush, which would seem to make sense, but the thing is environments change, and building a lean-to in your back garden when you have a perfectly good house right in front of you is daft, unless you are doing it for recreation. So, this would deem most of the skills we practice in bushcraft a recreation, because they are not necessary to our survival.
But even given all of that, is bushcraft a recreation, or is it actually a way of life? Not to sound contradictory, I was under the impression that the skills you learn while practicing bushcraft are applicable in any situation, and that in doing so you use the best tools to hand. The idea that guns are not to hand to those who own them seems baseless to me. Sure, in a survival situation then there are factors like limited ammunition and difficulty keeping it in good clean condition, but surviving isn't living, right?
If you want to kill an animal for meat, whether you use your fist or an extension of it is neither here nor there, since it's not about fairplay, we are higher up in the food chain.
I try and live in the simplist way i find possible, and my experience of bushcraft and the outdoors influences many of my decisions, but i am a student and i live in the city. We can all practice bushcraft, but if we wanted to live to the lowest common denominators of basic sustainance and shelter, then we would not be using this forum. The truth is we are embracing the advances of technology, and there is nothing inherently right or wrong about that, it just is.
If that all sounds like total bull**** then i apologise!
I only aim to stimulate discussion, not stir things up.
-ian
I should add i was making a general point, and feel similarly about guns to toddy. In answer to the question of where you draw the line, i would say it is not a question of drawing a line as you would with sports rules, and that it is more a way of living, i.e. it is all-encompassing. There seems little point to me in trying to define what it is we do any further than that since there is no competition.
The only way you could draw any kind of line which was fair in any case would be to say "do not use tools"!
The only way you could draw any kind of line which was fair in any case would be to say "do not use tools"!
Toddy said:
Cite.
Unless of course you wish to amend to "the vast majority of Guardian readers believe".
Alternatively we can walk away from this highly contentious topic and pretend it never happened.
Lurch said:Cite.
Unless of course you wish to amend to "the vast majority of Guardian readers believe".
Alternatively we can walk away from this highly contentious topic and pretend it never happened.
If the subject is contentious, then perhaps we should explore why?
As for reading the guardian, wouldn't waste my time....
I still say it is not a legitimate bushcraft tool...for the reason cited above.
Ten years ago the Australian Federal Government blackmailed all the state Governments into forcibly introducing, draconian, British style Gun Laws on the people.
The good thing today is that there are now more gun owners than ever before and gun numbers in many states have actually surpassed those prior to the new laws!! As a result we now have many more hunting and field sports clubs that actively promote hunting, game conservation, outdoor life and a lot of bushcraft as part of their safety training.
In countries with a strong tradition of bushcraft such as Australia, New Zealand and South Africa guns are an especially valid tool. I not only use my rifles for hunting I also use them for Feral Animal and Vermin control on my farm where I live. My gun licence endorses me to own my guns for Recreational Hunting and Vermin Control, we have hybrid dingo / wild dogs, feral cats and foxes in abundance in our mountains and you must shoot them if you get a chance. I also need to put down injured farm animals sometimes as well.
Bushcraft is different in these countries it is not actually considered an activity in it's own right but more of a set of skills you learn, practice and use in pursuit of your chosen outdoor recreation or job such as bowhunting, rifle hunting, bushwalking (the term used for hiking in Oz), forest worker, fishing or hunting guide etc.
I think that a lot of my views expressed here, some seemingly incompatible with a lot of the other members opinions have largely been through not comprehending this fundamental difference a little earlier.
I really hope a lot more of you folks get to visit countries like Australia so that you can see and experience our traditional bushcraft skills in their proper context. I think everyone would benefit from this.
The good thing today is that there are now more gun owners than ever before and gun numbers in many states have actually surpassed those prior to the new laws!!
As a result we now have many more hunting and field sports clubs that actively promote hunting, game conservation, outdoor life and a lot of bushcraft as part of their safety training. In countries with a strong tradition of bushcraft such as Australia, New Zealand and South Africa guns are an especially valid tool. I not only use my rifles for hunting I also use them for Feral Animal and Vermin control on my farm where I live. My gun licence endorses me to own my guns for Recreational Hunting and Vermin Control, we have hybrid dingo / wild dogs, feral cats and foxes in abundance in our mountains and you must shoot them if you get a chance. I also need to put down injured farm animals sometimes as well.
Bushcraft is different in these countries it is not actually considered an activity in it's own right but more of a set of skills you learn, practice and use in pursuit of your chosen outdoor recreation or job such as bowhunting, rifle hunting, bushwalking (the term used for hiking in Oz), forest worker, fishing or hunting guide etc.
I think that a lot of my views expressed here, some seemingly incompatible with a lot of the other members opinions have largely been through not comprehending this fundamental difference a little earlier.
I really hope a lot more of you folks get to visit countries like Australia so that you can see and experience our traditional bushcraft skills in their proper context. I think everyone would benefit from this.
Which is about as close as a fair few people on here get to real bushcraftbushtuckerman said:
I'm sure you'll be happy then to explain how you would make, whilst in the bush:stovie said:
1) A swandri ranger shirt
2) A pair of vibram soled leather walking boots
3) A 35L Swedish army rucksack
4) A stainless steel billy can
Oh, I'm sure you can make excellent primitive versions, but somehow I fail to believe that you go out into the bush wearing exclusively a self tanned buckskin shirt, moccasins and carrying your clay cooking pot in a parfleche tied to a willow frame.
Look into the history of chinese and japanese martial arts - there are plenty of examples of f*r**rms, specificly small cannon called "Ohzutsu" made from wood or bamboo laminated with paper - See 'Ninjutsu History and Tradition' by Masaaki Hatsumi for several photos of them in use.
You may not be able to make one, but someone out there would have the ability to do it. Combine this with a good knowledge of geology to provide salt petre and sulpher, add some carbon (charcoal from the fire!) and either a good, round river rock or some basic smelting knowledge and 'Boom'.
I guess this is a long way of saying that a f*r**rm is just as valid in bushcraft as buying a hand drill/bowdrill set (I've seen this somewhere on the forum
) or wearing synthetic baselayers.Klenchblaize - thats a very fine looking bit of hardwear you got there. (green with envy
)Martyn - might I suggest you moderate this thread (by banning/closing the thread) rather than posting 3 provocative comments in 14 minutes...
Swampy Matt said:
They weren't provocative, they seemed quite factual to me, it does get tiring hearing the same thing from people and it would be easier if they just got on with it.
It gets especially tiring that threads can't stick to the original questions and turn into political statements.
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