Valid Bushcraft Tool??

[Klenchblaize]

Ray shot a stag in a previous series where he was in NZ looking at the paid stalkers lives.

This is good to know. I've only seen him cook a lump of freshly shot venison on the shore of some Highland loch - the piece that got me thinking about this thread at least 2 years ago! Actually though I'm reliably informed that Ray does take aim with a rifle quite regularly and its a disappointment to me that he hasn't the time to take up the offer of attending a British Sporting Rifle Club "Match Day" as my guest. Better still though would be if he could find it within himself to speak positively about the sport (of hunting with a rifle) in the one arena that matters.

Yes, I do fear for my sport - my way of life -and threfore anything that can be done to delay the day when I and my fellow riflemen may no longer take to the woods with our preferred Bushcraft tool is surely the duty of all so disposed?

I'm sorry if some folk feel this is unjust pressure to place on this highly influential man but second place is simply nowhere in the battle to protect such minority freedoms.

Cheers

K

 

[running bare]

Because of all the restrictions on firearms in the uk and the difficulty of getting FAC variations I've always fancied an air rifle that looks like an old black powder "squirrel gun".
You know like something Daniel Boone might have carried.

Just a real low tech but high quality underlever springer with old fashioned open sights and nice wooden stock - maybe some brass furniture with the safety operated by the hammer?

Anyone know if anybody makes something like that?

It would come close to my idea of a "woodswalking" gun in these crowded Islands anyway.

George

hi george
have you tried airgunner and airgun world magazines? you quite often have pieces/adverts by custom builders who could make you one up

 

[Neil Mac']

Hi folks,

Regarding the discussion in this thread relating to honest and decent subjects using legally held firearms to legally shoot prey species I fail to see what the problem is. If shooters behave as if they are criminals then the government and society will treat them as such.

I have no criminal record.
I legally own several firearms
I use some of them to shoot wild animals to eat.
I consider that procuring your own food from the wild is part of what is termed "bushcraft".

I am not ashamed of that.

If this is not acceptable in this forum I'll resign.

Otherwise, I don't see that discussing sporting firearms is any different than discussing kayaks or bivvi bags or tools for finding pignuts.

Best wishes,

Neil.

 

[running bare]

hi neil.mac.
i dont own a firearm but have used them in the forces and totally agree with you and as for not discussing such tools on the forum due to public views brought on by bad press and nutters/criminals, most offences are by illegal unregistered guns. if people think its unreasonable to discuss on this or any other bushcraft forum then they should read the news more often I refer to the increased use of knives,machettes and axes in crime and personal attacks and think about the consequences after all this is how the knife law came in and the persecution of ligitimate gun owners how long before they bring in licences for knives and axes???
dont be so blind as to think they wont do it because if it gets them an extra share of the votes come election time then they will do it.

 

[Neil Mac']

.... However, with many laws governing firearms ownership and type and place of use, taking live prey - be that vermin, avian or other. I cannot see that we (as a group) will ever be able to use them collectively. Their longevity will obviously depend upon how much ammunition you can store/keep viable, so in the longer term it is likely to be the bow that outlasts the gun should the modern world cease to exist.....

Ogri the trog

Hi folks,

Perhaps I misunderstand what "bushcraft" is meant to be but questioning the viability of firearms as a tool after the collapse of the modern world strikes me as a bit more like "survivalism".

I carry a survival kit and I try to be prepared for difficult and dangerous circumstances but I don't see my interest in outdoor skills as being preparation in case "the modern world cease(s) to exist."

Life's tough enough today!

Best wishes,

Neil.

 

[Neil Mac']

Running bare,

Thankyou for your support.

Best wishes,

Neil.

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Yes a valid tools might even have one myself
CG :yo:

 

[elma]

Hi folks,

Regarding the discussion in this thread relating to honest and decent subjects using legally held firearms to legally shoot prey species I fail to see what the problem is. If shooters behave as if they are criminals then the government and society will treat them as such.

I have no criminal record.
I legally own several firearms
I use some of them to shoot wild animals to eat.
I consider that procuring your own food from the wild is part of what is termed "bushcraft".

I am not ashamed of that.

If this is not acceptable in this forum I'll resign.

Otherwise, I don't see that discussing sporting firearms is any different than discussing kayaks or bivvi bags or tools for finding pignuts.

Best wishes,

Neil.

Agree 100%, we use our firearms (not weapons) as a means to harvest and manage wildlife and also for other various target shooting sports.
Those people that use firearms outside the law and as weapons should feel the full weight of the law, too often we are condemned for the actions of others, as for whether a rifle is a valid bushcraft tool, man has been hunting with black powder guns for around 400 years

good hunting

Ian

 

[Klenchblaize]

Klench, the fly in the ointment here is that while you may feel duty bound to explore those issues here, it is also necessary to follow the rules of the forum and the guidance from moderators. Tony runs the place and pays the bills. We are his guests and he ultimately determines appropriate topics. There is no clear rules laid down about firearm discussions but appropriate guidance and the reasons for it have been given and it is a good idea to follow that.

For some reason I overlooked the polite and at the same time disturbing reminder from 'Moderator' Stuart re the matter of discussing those bits of kit beginning with the letter F. This before making several more postings. Clearly though I soon realised the thread was heading in the direction of "What Type Of G-n Is Best" so I simply nailed my colours firmly to the mast whilst also making known this was not the direction of debate I had hoped for. It now seems pretty much back-on-track from my perspective but if the site owner wishes to pull the plug that is clearly his prerogative, although I would see this as an issue of worrying censorship that will most certainly come back to haunt the activity of UK Bushcraft as populrity grows and the impact, from the activities of less enlightened practitioners, becomes increasingly the subject of public debate and scrutiny. Trust me on this one please.

For what it is worth I too am prepared to resign over this matter, if that's not too grand a description and, of course, if I'm not "banned" by Bushcraft before!. Oh dear, there we go again with that word so familiar to all shooters througout this wee Isle and so beloved by Politicians

Cheers

K

 

[ilovemybed]

Guys,
I hate to get into this debate, but I have a spare 2p so it's going here. Tony has clearly stated we need to be careful when discussing sensitive topics, not because they aren't valid but because he wants this forum to be open to all. That is threatened by big corporate censors if certain subjects are raised.

There are plenty of fora on the internet for discussion of any subject you like. Perhaps there is another place better suited for such a discussion if the Mods aren't keen on having it here? There should be no stigma about it, and it is ok to be a member of several fora at once! For instance, for competitive target shooting discussion (mainly UK, ISSF smallbore, lots of people who know what they're talking about) I go here: http://www.stirton.com

Malaho,
Neil

 

[Toddy]

I have to admit I've been avoiding this one, but have come to the conclusion that my view is as valid as anyone else's.
Klench your name SHOUTS at us, please tone it down a little. Posing with a BIG gun doesn't help the image of an all round bushcrafter either.

See that's the balance; it's all round/ well rounded/ adaptable/ capable/ competent/ in the natural world that we are aiming for.

Is that rifle a good bushcraft tool? For me, no, it's too damn heavy, too obvious to be inconspicuous and too noisy in use. Now a neat, quiet, accurate wee 2.2 ? now that I can use. In practise I don't; I don't eat meat and I don't need one to kill vermin though, so it's a moot point.
Is a rifle a good bushcraft tool? Well, duh? of course it is, in the right situation! Mostly though, for most people, it's more trouble than it's worth to lug it around.
Most of us try to go lightly, we're not into the survival by stocking up on resources and equipment mentality, we want to be actively part of our natural world, to enjoy being out there, participating in the reality that is fresh air and healthy growth.
If our natural environment permits us to gather/hunt/produce our own food we are very blessed too. Hunting, shooting and fishing are only part of the equation though.
The Mods concerns are very valid, open discussion is a privilege which bears its own responsibilities. Firearms control is a tenet of British society, most folks will never handle a gun. If you wish to redress that balance, fine, but I doubt that using bcuk as a springboard will go down well. Lead balloon comes to mind

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Tony]

One of the things that constantly surprises me is threats of resignation if people don’t get to say what they feel they have a right to. Sorry guys but you can resign I don’t really care. You’ve had some guidance from mods on how to keep the thread on track and your getting up in arms about it.

Many of us like to shoot and we’d hate to loose it as something we can freely (ish) do. But coming on here and posturing is going to get you no where. You abide by the rules and guidance of the mods or you leave, up to you.
It’s not up for discussion, If we’re not accommodating enough for you then find some other site that is. I don’t want the rating of Bushcraft UK to be shifted to one that’s blocked from companies and educational establishments. If you don’t care about that then there’s all the more reason for you to find somewhere that shares your attitude.

 

[stovie]

Valid Bushcraft tool???

No!

Why???

Cos I can't make one in the bush

 

[willie]

OMFG That is one sexy Rifle Imo :notworthy

 

[Lurch]

Valid Bushcraft tool???

No!

Why???

Cos I can't make one in the bush

Can you make a firesteel? A modern knife?
There are loads of tools that we use in bushcraft that you can't make in the bush from a standing start. If you've the gear and nouse to smelt iron and forge a knife then you could probably make some kind of boom stick.

Like Tony I'm amused by threats to 'resign' (usually by people who have just got here), this place is like Tony's front room - if you don't like it then you don't need to come here and if Tony doesn't like the cut of your jib then he can ask you to watch your step or put you out.

...but let's try to get past this eh? All chums together and that.

 

[stovie]

Can you make a firesteel? A modern knife?
There are loads of tools that we use in bushcraft that you can't make in the bush from a standing start. If you've the gear and nouse to smelt iron and forge a knife then you could probably make some kind of boom stick.
.

The point is, you are moving into "industrial technology beyond the aboriginal". A firesteel can be replaced by flint, and so could a knife for that matter. I could at a push make a knife in the bush. It may not look pretty, but it would be servicable. I could neither make a firearm servicable or pretty

Just my take on the matter...

 

[Lurch]

The point is, you are moving into "industrial technology beyond the aboriginal". A firesteel can be replaced by flint, and so could a knife for that matter. I could at a push make a knife in the bush. It may not look pretty, but it would be servicable. I could neither make a firearm servicable or pretty

Just my take on the matter...

Sure, I'm not saying your point isn't valid.
,,,but to replace a firesteel with a flint (you'd need a steel with that btw!) or a blade with a stone blade then your equivalant for a boomstick is probably a bow.

Earlier in the thread it was said that the firesteel is a newer invention by centuries yet we don't consider the firesteel non-bushcrafty so I don't see why we should discount something just because it can't be made in the ulu.
Up to you if you feel different of course but just pointing out some wassname in the logic.

 

[stovie]

Sure, I'm not saying your point isn't valid.
,,,but to replace a firesteel with a flint (you'd need a steel with that btw!) or a blade with a stone blade then your equivalant for a boomstick is probably a bow.

Earlier in the thread it was said that the firesteel is a newer invention by centuries yet we don't consider the firesteel non-bushcrafty so I don't see why we should discount something just because it can't be made in the ulu.
Up to you if you feel different of course but just pointing out some wassname in the logic.

I could cope with making a steel...it would be as pretty as my knife... and a bow will indeed be my broomstick (and the way I shoot it would be better off as one ) I just cannot see something as technologically advanced as a rifle being a "bushcraft" tool...

I agree that technology can be a part of what some call bushcraft, but again I guess it depends on your take of the term.

But there is room for all...

 

[Tony]

In the right circumstances a firearm is an appropriate tool, as are many of the things that we carry. But it’s just that, a tool. There’s very few people that see it as a standard tool to take out with them, it’s not like a knife, or and axe, or a GPS, compass, map, whistle etc It’s much more extreme than that and therefore the circumstances that it’s appropriate to use it in are much fewer, for some non-existent.

It’s all down to opinion about how important a tool it is and it’s usually down to the law about when it’s appropriate to use it. Due to that it’s a minority tool though, I’d say anyone that’s in a position to shoot should count themselves lucky.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I have to admit I've been avoiding this one, but have come to the conclusion that my view is as valid as anyone else's.
Klench your name SHOUTS at us, please tone it down a little. Posing with a BIG gun doesn't help the image of an all round bushcrafter either.

See that's the balance; it's all round/ well rounded/ adaptable/ capable/ competent/ in the natural world that we are aiming for.

Is that rifle a good bushcraft tool? For me, no, it's too damn heavy, too obvious to be inconspicuous and too noisy in use. Now a neat, quiet, accurate wee 2.2 ? now that I can use. In practise I don't; I don't eat meat and I don't need one to kill vermin though, so it's a moot point.
Is a rifle a good bushcraft tool? Well, duh? of course it is, in the right situation! Mostly though, for most people, it's more trouble than it's worth to lug it around.
Most of us try to go lightly, we're not into the survival by stocking up on resources and equipment mentality, we want to be actively part of our natural world, to enjoy being out there, participating in the reality that is fresh air and healthy growth.
If our natural environment permits us to gather/hunt/produce our own food we are very blessed too. Hunting, shooting and fishing are only part of the equation though.
The Mods concerns are very valid, open discussion is a privilege which bears its own responsibilities. Firearms control is a tenet of British society, most folks will never handle a gun. If you wish to redress that balance, fine, but I doubt that using bcuk as a springboard will go down well. Lead balloon comes to mind

Cheers,
Toddy

You have a valid point re the posing with a "BIG gun" although I didn't see it quite like that when searching for something to down-size to 80 pixels. Besides, at 48 I'm long past my best and more than happy to find something with even more grain in their features for you to look at! This point taken then.

As for my shouting I simply will not apologise for something I feel so strongly about. Please though be assured I will refrain from further comment in respect of this thread as both you and Tony request. I really have nothing further to add to my stated position anyway other than unity = strength.

Cheers

K
Ps: None of the rifles I own are BIG of calibre as I hate recoil. And for those that asked my "green" rifle is a wildcat based on the 6X47 Swiss Match round necked-up to .25 and given a sharp ("Ackley") shoulder. Something of a George Galloway to shoot in fact!! Subject now closed?