Valid Bushcraft Tool??

[Buckshot]

22 rifle and 410 shotgun. Great for small game.

I bet !
Very nice

You're quite right Stuart and apologies.
Although I'd have thought this site would go on the 'No-no site' listing because of it's talk about knives rather than guns - far more is said about those sharp pointy things.
I can't get onto BB for instance from my work pc but I do take your point - no pun intended.

Lurch - that's the rub.
It's a catch 22 !!!!!!

Anyway...

Cheers

Mark

 

[Neil Mac']

Hi folks,

If your company/educational establishment etc. permits you to use the internet for private use then they will probably make an exception if you show them what the site is. Lets face it, the BBC news website must mention firearms all the time but everyone gets to see it.

I think a firearm is a perfectly valid bushcraft tool. It's a "game-getter" in the same way that a bow, spear, trap, snare or dog is.

The green rifle looks OK. What is it? I take it it's in .223 or some other such "mouse calibre".

Seriously, though, it's difficult to think what calibre to choose for a "game-getter" rifle. If you've got some marvellous place to camp in the UK where you can stay all year round and shoot anything you like for dinner you'd still probably end up with .22" rimfire and a diet of rabbit and maybe squirrel. Putting aside the calibre restrictions in the deer act for a moment, I think that .223 is marginal on anything bigger than roe and may be questionable even then. Perhaps a 6mm/ .243" sized round would give you the capability to take on any deer but still be usuable on rabbits if you only took headshots to avoid too much meat damage. I don't suppose plod would be too pleased: "it's not in the guidance..."

An estate I visited last year had lots of rabbits and Muntjac so .223" would be ideal there. (Subject to deer act)

A 12 or 20 bore shotgun is useful but I usually find that I get rabbits at my feet and they're a bit torn up or they're too far off to get the drop on them. Pigeon make a good meal all year round though

I use a 1960's .22" rimfire BSA sportsman 15 that I bought for £6 at auction. With a rather more expensive 6x42 Leupold scope it will readily put 5 rounds into an inch at 100 yds if I do my bit and it's not very windy. I usually take rabbits at 35 to 60 yards with it. I shot almost all the meat we ate last year although we did have a lot of rabbit and pigeon. Some pheasant too.

It's all good food whether you cook it at home or in the field.

Best wishes,

Neil.

 

[Stuart]

strangly knives dont seem to cause any problem as the programs dont appear to list them under weapons.

prehapes BB is blocked because of refence to swords or other such censored words, no idea????

 

[Neil Mac']

The steel they put in those is usually pretty good. I'm betting you could melt that down and make a proper knife of it.

Now this here is what ya call a bushcraft gun...

If it was good enough for Calvin Rutstrum, it's good enough for me.

Hi Hoodoo,

I suppose if it makes you happy it's fine! I think it would be difficult to shoot well with. The trigger must be awful.
I can see what they're trying to do and I suppose you could put it behind the seat of your floatplane for when you crash in the jungle. I think a single barrel 12 bore shotgun with a "morris tube" drop in .22"rimfire barrel insert stored under the forend like a cleaning rod would be a better all -rounder. You could shoot .22" rimfire, birdshot, buck shot or solid slug. I'd suggest a 24" Barrel with a folding stock containing a waterproof storage compartment for ammo and cleaning kit. Make the rest in stainless. It could be a big seller...

Maybe I ought to set up making them!

Best wishes,

Neil.

 

[elma]

Hi Neil Mac
I wont go into calibre arguments, but I will say its not what you shoot, but knowing the limitations of the equipment and yourself
I shoot foxes and rabbits with a .22hornet, I limit my range to 150yds and have spent many hours developing my home loads and skill with the outfit to to be confident at this range, I own other rifles up to 300wm all of which will clover leaf at 100yds, again I have developed my skill and confidence with these rifles and have taken deer at ranges in excess of 200yds with all of them including .223 (in the USA). It's not just the rifle its the whole package right down to the primer and bullet head that counts, knowing how the bullet behaves in flight and the variables that may change the point of impact, but most importantly it's having repect for your prey, the shot is taken when you know you will kill it, not when you think you will

good hunting

Ian

 

[Neil Mac']

Hi Ian,

I quite agree with all that you say. I have a .22" air rifle for squirrels, a .22" rimfire for rabbits, 12b Edwardian hammer shotgun for birds and am sorting out a sporterised .303" Lee-Enfield No.4 to use as a stalking rifle. I have target stuff too. It would be hard to pick just one though and expect it to fulfill all those tasks.

I'm hoping to get some deerstalking this year and perhaps some wild boar overseas ( or here given the chance!) I think that the feral goats in SW Scotland could be good sport and good eating. I've only had goat in Algeria but I liked it enough then.

I always respect my quarry in terms of wanting a clean kill and so on but I don't get sentimental about it.

Good hunting!

Best wishes,

Neil

 

[Neil Mac']

Ian,

"one by one the pixies steal my sanity"

Don't tell the Firearms Liason Officer!

Best wishes,

Neil

 

[elma]

Hey Neil if your at the full members it would be great to great to have a firearms chatter.
good luck with your stalking, try roger buss D&G game consultants he has some stalking up your way.

Ian

 

[Buckshot]

strangly knives dont seem to cause any problem as the programs dont appear to list them under weapons.

prehapes BB is blocked because of refence to swords or other such censored words, no idea????

Oh - strange
Live and learn...

 

[Ogri the trog]

Because of all the restrictions on firearms in the uk and the difficulty of getting FAC variations I've always fancied an air rifle that looks like an old black powder "squirrel gun".
You know like something Daniel Boone might have carried.

Just a real low tech but high quality underlever springer with old fashioned open sights and nice wooden stock - maybe some brass furniture with the safety operated by the hammer?

Anyone know if anybody makes something like that?

It would come close to my idea of a "woodswalking" gun in these crowded Islands anyway.

George

George,
Here's a site that I used to drool over - exceptional craftsmanship, beauty crafted in steel and wood, powered by air and colosal power
www.barnespneumatic.com

Enjoy

Ogri the trog

 

[Neil Mac']

Hi folks,

I think the Barnes Pneumatic air rifles would require a Firearms Certificate in the UK - they've got to be over 12 Foot Pounds of energy. Interesting looking things if you've got several thousand pounds that you don't know what to do with. Alternatively, for a black powder looking "Squirrel gun" why not just get a black powder musket? There are loads of reproduction 18th/19th century models available.

You would need:

Firearms locker - £90-120 new. Less secondhand.
Firearms certificate or shotgun certificate. £50 each or £60 for the pair.
Passport pictures - £5
Somewhere to shoot it. £0-?
Black powder licence. (Shooters powder) No Fee.
Black powder musket or rifle £250-400 New - less secondhand

That looks like about £450 all in. or less if you go second hand.
Depending on your Firearms Liason Officer, if you only want the one black powder longarm, you might not need the locker if you can keep the weapon in bits or just lock up the "lock" i.e hammer and springs.

You'll want some accessories like a gunslip but you can soon sew one up

After that it's just powder and balls or shot.

I'd be glad to advise if you wish to proceed.

Best wishes,

Neil.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Neil Mac'
Oh boy would you need a FAC to own one in the UK - though it might be comical trying to convince your FEO of your reason why you want one
Those airguns are up to .58 calibre and 650 ft/lb muzzle energy

I've settled for .22 rimfire which is plenty for me to harvest rabbit and squirrel for the pot.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Klenchblaize]

This thread was never intended to promote debate about rifle calibre choice and the types of fowling piece available to those who hunt, but rather to determine if Bushcraft consider such a tool to have a place in the world of outdoor adventure as conceived by Ray Mears and, it must be said, presented to the wider public by BBC Television.

Clearly I consider it to be so and therfore a totally vaild subject for debate. Further, I feel if there is any oppertunity to widen debate about legitimate firearms ownership in the UK and the privilege that is to hunt a wild creature with same, then I'm duty-bound to promote such at each & every oppertunity. After all you can still craft the finest longbow from the same trees used to make those deployed with such devastating effect at Agincourt , but raise such to a fox or rabbit in 2006 and you'll find yourself behind bars. How long then before you'll need a UK "Knife Certificate" to be in possession of a Woodlore knife??.

Cheers

KLENCHBLAIZE

 

[Ogri the trog]

Klenchblaize,
I wholeheartedly agree that any method of procuring fresh meat to suppliment a forraged meal is worthy of a place in the Bushcrafters arsenal. However, with many laws governing firearms ownership and type and place of use, taking live prey - be that vermin, avian or other. I cannot see that we (as a group) will ever be able to use them collectively. Their longevity will obviously depend upon how much ammunition you can store/keep viable, so in the longer term it is likely to be the bow that outlasts the gun should the modern world cease to exist.
In the RM series that I've seen, he only approached an already shot animal, so I think that the BBC are treading a very narrow path in portraying the virtues of Bushcraft butchery without the perceived nastiness or glorifying gun use.
I also agree that opportunities to widen the firearms debate should be welcomed, but in all honesty can't imagine anything other than ceasless tighteneing of unneccessary laws to protect a populace that would rather not face the truth about meat production nor the criminal element of gun use.

Ogri the trog

 

[Lurch]

Ray shot a stag in a previous series where he was in NZ looking at the paid stalkers lives.

 

[ilovemybed]

Ray shot a stag in a previous series where he was in NZ looking at the paid stalkers lives.

And he looked like he had done it a couple of times before - if I remember right he drilled it in the shoulder from several hundred yards?

 

[Lurch]

Yup, it was fine shot and no mistake.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Ray shot a stag in a previous series where he was in NZ looking at the paid stalkers lives.

Thanks Lurch,
I stand corrected, I haven't seen that episode.

Ogri the trog

 

[Hoodoo]

This thread was never intended to promote debate about rifle calibre choice and the types of fowling piece available to those who hunt, but rather to determine if Bushcraft consider such a tool to have a place in the world of outdoor adventure as conceived by Ray Mears and, it must be said, presented to the wider public by BBC Television.

Clearly I consider it to be so and therfore a totally vaild subject for debate. Further, I feel if there is any oppertunity to widen debate about legitimate firearms ownership in the UK and the privilege that is to hunt a wild creature with same, then I'm duty-bound to promote such at each & every oppertunity. After all you can still craft the finest longbow from the same trees used to make those deployed with such devastating effect at Agincourt , but raise such to a fox or rabbit in 2006 and you'll find yourself behind bars. How long then before you'll need a UK "Knife Certificate" to be in possession of a Woodlore knife??.

Cheers

KLENCHBLAIZE

Klench, the fly in the ointment here is that while you may feel duty bound to explore those issues here, it is also necessary to follow the rules of the forum and the guidance from moderators. Tony runs the place and pays the bills. We are his guests and he ultimately determines appropriate topics. There is no clear rules laid down about firearm discussions but appropriate guidance and the reasons for it have been given and it is a good idea to follow that.

 

[scruff]

Ray shot a stag in a previous series where he was in NZ looking at the paid stalkers lives.

he used a steyr scout too if memory serves. did he miss first time or was he just nervous he would....?