USGI canteen cup systems. Rothco/Miltec vs Issue vs Jolmo Lander.

[Ozmundo]

Another comparison test. USGI style cups on Fire Dragon and Fire dragon mini’s. Plus Mini Trangia mess tin Fire dragon, run separately but immediately after the first three.

500ml of 4c water and a single block of 28g fire dragon fuel as previously. Weather was minimal wind and had just stopped raining, around 13c.



Left to right: USGI cup with lid, flame mat, fire dragon stove & heavy foil wind shield; USGI cup on fire dragon mini cooker; USGI on fire dragon stove.



Mini mess tin on fire dragon stove, the lid was on during the test.

 

[Ozmundo]

I missed the timer on the first run through but on all maximum run time was around 12 minutes.

None of the stove achieved a rolling boil. They all reached the point where static bubbles were covering the sides of the pots.

The mini mess tin worked about as well as the two uncovered cups.

The covered cup with wind shield was slightly better with small bubbles rising.

 

[Ozmundo]

Some more thoughts on these and fire dragon stoves and fuel.

• It’s clearly a quite a lot to ask one block to raise the temperature to boiling point from 4c.
• The lids made a small difference under the circumstances. The wind shield and lids are probably more important if it is windy.
• The mini cooker was not especially worse in terms of heat out put. It is not as stable but can be useful if it’s going to be used inside something.
• The temperature reached, although I didn’t measure, it is enough for hot drinks but probably not killing bugs.

 

[Ozmundo]

How do these result compare to my actual use?

My usual set up is the USGI cup, lid, wind shield, full size fire dragon and flame mat if needed.
This is used as a simple brew/soup kit when out for a walk. I do get a propper boil but the water in my canteen is probably 10c at least.

However for cooking two blocks might be needed. Although of course the water volume for a boil in the bag will be less than 500ml.

The blocks shape might not help. I have been able to boil about 300ml of water with half a block. This is in a tin foil cup to prevent it spreading out.

I carry a usgi stove stand on the mug to use as a wood burner.

However if I am intending to do a trip with several full meals I carry a more capable stove. Usually a meths or wood burner. If cooking for more than one person gas, as I usually want to be quicker.

 

[Ozmundo]

The mini mess tin is my old edc kit and is now in a car break down kit. Content of the tin is: stove, puritabs, fire card thinder, mini bic, lifeboat matches, mini fire steel, folding spork, soup packet, drink satchet.




This all lives in a 2L dry bag with a fold-a-cup, bandana, tissues, extra hot chocolate, coffee filter paper, water bag, pasta or curry ration.

 

[Ozmundo]

Comparison of some USGI cup lids.



I haven’t put the miltec one in as it’s not a good fit for most usgi cups.

Top to bottom:

Pathfinder
Jolmo lander (I think)
Lixada

All steel. Jolmo and Pathfinder are identical. Lixada the basic lid black is the same.



They all stack together.



Some slight differences in depth but this might just be the press used.



They all fit the use cup very well.

The Pathfinder lid can be bought alone from Hienne in the UK for under £10 plus p&p.

The other lids I got in sets and haven’t found them sold individually. But the Jolmo Lander and Lixada stove, cup and lid can be found for £12 plus postage.

 

[Ozmundo]

Canteen cup vs round cup test.

Steel USGI style cup with lid vs steel round cup with lid.




500ml of cool tap water, therefore warmer than previous tests. Fire dragon stove and a single 28g block of fuel each. Air temp 11c no wind to speak of.
Everything started wet as I dropped the first canteen fuel on the stoves and fuel. Tipped water out of stoves and lit with a couple of strikes of the ferro rod.



Over all run time on fuel was 16 minutes.

Both cups had small bubbles forming at three minutes.

The at 7’15” the round cup had a gentle boil going with the usgi cup at 8’. Both with rolling boil 10’ to 12’ mark the USGI then started to loose power as the fuel dwindled but the round cup kept going to 15’ mark.

 

[Ozmundo]

Thoughts on this test.

• Marked difference in time to boil and potential cooking time.
• The round pot is a good candidate for using a smaller fuel block.
• Other choices come down to ergonomics.

I like the round cup for dehydrated meals but not for cooking or heating packet meals.

Nitpicks:

The handles on round cup lids, even with a cut out, seem to be a bit less secure to a bit more of a fiddle when hot. I have a few and they all share this.

There is less “freeboard” on the round cup so when it’s boiling there is more chance for it to spill over.

The kidney/usgi cups may be a little bit more fiddly to pour or drink from.

 

[Ozmundo]

Exactly!
So does the plate with the cup shaped cut-out work to brew up faster that just half folding the cooker like we used to do?
I don't think I ever actually got a kidney cup of water to ever boil but it got hot enough to make an instant coffee and dissolve army sugar

Got one to test.

It came with solid fuel and instructions on the waxed paper packaging.



The “cup holder” is a reasonable fit for the mk1 crusader mug.

Little bit of a gap and when the mug is full it can get stuck and lift up with the cup. It is however much more stable than the stove without it.



With a bit of adjustment to the stove it’s will sit on the fire dragon but isn’t really needed.

 

[Ozmundo]

Comparison water heating test.

BCB fire dragon with 27g fuel block & USGI mug; Highlander (black) folding stove & USGI mug with supplied fuel; Hexamine solid fuel stove wplus mug stand & mk1 crusader mug with supplied fuel.

Each cup had 500ml of tap water. Air temp 11c with 14-15mph wind athough I was partculy sheltered.



With the wind it took a bit to get the solid fuel going. The fire dragon kit immediately so in the end it see this to start off the rest. As a result the fire dragon block was burning for a minute or two before being used to heat anything.



It’s not a great image but the stove with the mug holder kicked out more flame sideways. I think because of the way the holder channels the air flow.
The holder did mean I could slide the whole stove around without it tipping over however. The Highlander stove without this was a bit trickier.

At around 5’30” all the cups were covered with small bubbles inside.



At 10’30” the firedragon ran out just before a rolling boil. It had been burning for an additional minute or two without being used to heat anything.



At around 14’ the solid fuel was done. Again just before a fully rolling boil. I did add an additional block and these ran until 22’ with a rolling boil at about 17-18’ the stove with the cup holder was slightly quicker.

Thoughts on these three setups:

• The alcohol based fuel was very easy to light.
• The stove with the cup holder was the most stable, provided you have the right mug. These can be had with fuel for under a fiver.
• The solid fuel stoves needed two blocks to get to a rolling boil. The single fire dragon block was not quite enough in the conditions but a minute or two was wasted.
• In terms of bulk of fuel the amount used was similar so weight saving isn’t an issue.
• I really like the cup holder. The smell of toxic fuel makes your grub taste better.

 

[Moondog55]

Interesting
Here in Oz we were taught to use our canteen cups in the opposite orientation; I wonder if that makes a difference

 

[Ozmundo]

I quite often do on the old style USGI stoves. Especially if burning sticks as it’s easier to top up the fuel.

The firedragon stove has a windshield on the back so that would would likely keep the handles clear of a flame. But my experience is they don’t usually get hot on these.
I was told by an old sweat that the hexi stoves were used prongs down.

Nice video about them here:

Also mentioned in comments about using them upside down for compo rations.

 

[Moondog55]

I've never used my British cup in the field, my preference being for the one I am used to; but I have used the older US WW2 style cup holder / heater/windshield thingy a few times when all I needed was a warm drink.
Past [ long past] experience says that using an external windshield was the best thing to do;
making use of what ever was to hand at the time

 

[Ozmundo]

Just something I noticed while getting the lunch time soup on is that the US and Dutch kidney cups sit on the hexi stove a bit easier as they are longer and narrower.



If I’ve got the cup holder version on me then the crusader site way to go.

Didn’t time this but 300ml with one block of solid fuel easily. Not even awhile tab.

 

[MikeLA]

Comparison water heating test.

BCB fire dragon with 27g fuel block & USGI mug; Highlander (black) folding stove & USGI mug with supplied fuel; Hexamine solid fuel stove wplus mug stand & mk1 crusader mug with supplied fuel.

Each cup had 500ml of tap water. Air temp 11c with 14-15mph wind athough I was partculy sheltered.

View attachment 86618

With the wind it took a bit to get the solid fuel going. The fire dragon kit immediately so in the end it see this to start off the rest. As a result the fire dragon block was burning for a minute or two before being used to heat anything.

View attachment 86619

It’s not a great image but the stove with the mug holder kicked out more flame sideways. I think because of the way the holder channels the air flow.
The holder did mean I could slide the whole stove around without it tipping over however. The Highlander stove without this was a bit trickier.

At around 5’30” all the cups were covered with small bubbles inside.



At 10’30” the firedragon ran out just before a rolling boil. It had been burning for an additional minute or two without being used to heat anything.

View attachment 86621

At around 14’ the solid fuel was done. Again just before a fully rolling boil. I did add an additional block and these ran until 22’ with a rolling boil at about 17-18’ the stove with the cup holder was slightly quicker.

Thoughts on these three setups:

• The alcohol based fuel was very easy to light.
• The stove with the cup holder was the most stable, provided you have the right mug. These can be had with fuel for under a fiver.
• The solid fuel stoves needed two blocks to get to a rolling boil. The single fire dragon block was not quite enough in the conditions but a minute or two was wasted.
• In terms of bulk of fuel the amount used was similar so weight saving isn’t an issue.
• I really like the cup holder. The smell of toxic fuel makes your grub taste better.

Sometimes the trick with lighting hexi is to hold it firm in the middle of the stove with one hand and light it underneath with the other, on a corner of the hexi through the stove holes. Has always worked for me to heat the block immediately.

 

[MikeLA]

Just something I noticed while getting the lunch time soup on is that the US and Dutch kidney cups sit on the hexi stove a bit easier as they are longer and narrower.

View attachment 86657

If I’ve got the cup holder version on me then the crusader site way to go.

Didn’t time this but 300ml with one block of solid fuel easily. Not even awhile tab.

View attachment 86658

Most of us bought the Dutch mug and used it like this before crusader was heard of.

Superb tests enjoyed reading this but I wish BCB would improve the dragon fuelblocks to not need the wrapping on each one and their stoves to be able to hold more that one fuel block at a time. We used to break the hexi fuel blocks up before use into a bag and feed the stove when needed to maintain the heat.

 

[Ozmundo]

You are right about the fire dragon packaging.
I have some of the bottled gel, bit messy, better to spoon it out to get the correct amount.

For a civi at least, the blocks would better as bar in a ziplock style package. It’s a shame the “medium” size blocks don’t seem to be produced as they’d be more than enough for 250ml, especially in a round mug.

I briefly contemplated putting gel or cut up blocks in a small ice tray and taping it sealed. But I decided it’s just more wasteful.

Hexi and esbit I stick usually in the stove first. I find it easier to hold the piece when using a lighter though.
But I have a few matches left from rat packs, that’s what I had with the first hexi stove I was given to play with in the garden as a nipper!
Culture police might be sent around if it happened now!

 

[Larry Robinson]

Some more thoughts on these and fire dragon stoves and fuel.

• The lids made a small difference under the circumstances. The wind shield and lids are probably more important if it is windy.

Whilst I’ve done no quasi-scientific testing, in my experience the use of a lid is far less important than the use of a windscreen. Frankly I’m not sure that the absence of a lid makes any significant difference ... which perhaps is why they weren’t military issue with USGI canteen cups, and BCB doesn’t make them for the Crusader.

I have a couple of homemade aluminium lids for my Crusaders, which see use for back garden brews. I do not generally carry them farther afield, as they are relatively bulky and don’t seem worth the trouble.

I have often wished for one of the Heavy Cover stainless steel ‘boil covers’ made to fit the Crusaders: you know how it is when things are no longer sold, they seem so desirable! But given their excessive weight, high cost and (presumed) limited effectiveness, it’s unsurprising that they ceased manufacture.

Got one to test.

It came with solid fuel and instructions on the waxed paper packaging.

View attachment 86615

The “cup holder” is a reasonable fit for the mk1 crusader mug.

Little bit of a gap and when the mug is full it can get stuck and lift up with the cup. It is however much more stable than the stove without it.

View attachment 86617

With a bit of adjustment to the stove it’s will sit on the fire dragon but isn’t really needed.

Are you able to provide a link to the source? Sounds like it would be worthwhile.

 

[The Frightful]

Thanks again for this PHD paper worthy thread extremely useful

 

[Ozmundo]

Whilst I’ve done no quasi-scientific testing, in my experience the use of a lid is far less important than the use of a windscreen. Frankly I’m not sure that the absence of a lid makes any significant difference ... which perhaps is why they weren’t military issue with USGI canteen cups, and BCB doesn’t make them for the Crusader.

I have a couple of homemade aluminium lids for my Crusaders, which see use for back garden brews. I do not generally carry them farther afield, as they are relatively bulky and don’t seem worth the trouble.

I have often wished for one of the Heavy Cover stainless steel ‘boil covers’ made to fit the Crusaders: you know how it is when things are no longer sold, they seem so desirable! But given their excessive weight, high cost and (presumed) limited effectiveness, it’s unsurprising that they ceased manufacture.


Are you able to provide a link to the source? Sounds like it would be worthwhile.

Sorry for late reply.

I misread the post so my initial reply was nonsense.

I picked up the stove from surplusandoutdoor.com but they seem to be out of stock. They are available on eBay but I have a spare if you can’t find one.

Not sure if I mentioned it but the windscreens I use are either cut down Robens brand or sheets of foil I got from Backpackinglight UK. Sadly they are closing down at the end of May.

I’ve got one of the Aluminium or indeed “ally” crusader lids from eBay. I do carry it especially for pasta pot time.



I must admit liking the simple solid fuel stoves. Not really breakable and my stuff has the potential to get salt water on it fairly often.