UK Laws and traditional knives?

[Stonedog]

If I understand knife laws in the UK, then "large knives" are either of illegal to carry for bushcraft purposes??

That being said, are traditional large knives frowned upon as well? I am an American and a lot of my countrymen subscribe to the ne big blade to rule them all"...not me, right tool for the right job.

I do like a "long knife" though, as it is spot on for butchering the large game that I do so love to hunt with my self made medieval crossbow...either my 1760's frontier style butcher knife or leuku, both with 8" blade... and they are both handy as well....not being the "zombie killers", so to speak...

I guess my post is more of a curiosity thing....

 

[Wook]

In theory you can carry just about anything bladed in a public place provided you have a "good reason". Surprisingly gutting criminals who try to hurt your family is not considered a good reason. Gutting fish however is. It will be hard to get any policeman to accept any excuse whatsoever for a Große Messer or a Katana in a public place. Both can be owned in the privacy of your own home.

Outside of the scope of "good reason", you may only carry a folding, non-locking blade of less than 3 inches. Basically a SAK. You do not need an excuse for carrying one of those, although they take a dim view if you ever stick one in someone, even if they deserved it.

 

[Mouse040]

I'm refraining from a reply

Alls I say is good luck

 

[General Strike]

If I understand knife laws in the UK, then "large knives" are either of illegal to carry for bushcraft purposes??

That being said, are traditional large knives frowned upon as well? I am an American and a lot of my countrymen subscribe to the ne big blade to rule them all"...not me, right tool for the right job.

I do like a "long knife" though, as it is spot on for butchering the large game that I do so love to hunt with my self made medieval crossbow...either my 1760's frontier style butcher knife or leuku, both with 8" blade... and they are both handy as well....not being the "zombie killers", so to speak...

I guess my post is more of a curiosity thing....

UK Knife law is not that draconian, but for a variety of reasons the police are under pressure to keep knives off the street. Large knives are not illegal for bushcraft, but a police officer may not understand 'bushcraft' to be a valid reason for carrying a large knife, and decide to either remove your knife in the interest of public safety, or refer it to the courts to decide. Also, bear in mind that your reason for carrying has to be valid NOW, you can't keep a parang in your glove-box just in case you feel like nipping off for a spot of bushcraft...

I would imagine that some of the 'traditional' large knives, such as bowies, might be more prone to a serious response from police or the public, based upon their 'weapon-like' silhouette.

 

[Dunx]

As a side note - I didnt think that hunting with a crossbow was legal in the UK?

Although you say your an american, are you currently in the UK? or is the question purely academic on your curiosity?

 

[santaman2000]

UK Knife law is not that draconian, but for a variety of reasons the police are under pressure to keep knives off the street. Large knives are not illegal for bushcraft, but a police officer may not understand 'bushcraft' to be a valid reason for carrying a large knife, and decide to either remove your knife in the interest of public safety, or refer it to the courts to decide. Also, bear in mind that your reason for carrying has to be valid NOW, you can't keep a parang in your glove-box just in case you feel like nipping off for a spot of bushcraft......

Nothing in the glove box. But there's a Buck 110 lock-knife in the center console. Under the back seat there's either a Kabar or a Khukuri. Usually a rifle or shotgun in the truck somewhere as well. ALWAYS a handgun in the truck and another on my person.

Anything less is like going naked.

 

[rik_uk3]

So two handguns, a rifle and several knives, you must live in a constant state of fear santaman

Over 9,000 murders by firearms in the USA in 2011, we had 41.

 

[santaman2000]

So two handguns, a rifle and several knives, you must live in a constant state of fear santaman

Over 9,000 murders by firearms in the USA in 2011, we had 41.

The rifle and is there for hunting or potting an occasional coyote. The knives are for general purpose use (hunting, fishing, camping, occasional farm chores when I get lucky enough to be back on a farm)

Only the handguns are there as deliberate weapons. And as the old story goes about the man who told the reporter he had three guns on him and the reporter asked what he was afraid of; the man replied, "Not a damned thing."

Numbers aren't quite truthful Rik. Over 9000 "shooting" in 2011. Not all of them were murder; they don't make a differentiation. Gun control advocates inflate the numbers that way. They most recently even added Tameralan Tsarnaev's name to their list of "victims of gun violence" Never mind that he was shot by police after bombing the Boston Marathon..

 

[santaman2000]

TBH though if we just restrict the discussion to knife law, UK law isn't much more restrictive than Florida law. And Florida law unfortunately leaves more room for misuse by the authorities.

Whereas UK law specifies a sub 3 inch, non locking folder IS legal, Florida law instead says an "ordinary" pocketknife is legal. But offers absolutely NO definition of "ordinary." And yes I've seen officers selectively arrest vagrants because they had a small lockback or whatever else they could argue wasn't ordinary.

And like the UK which makes an exception to the general restrictions if you can show legitimate reason for other than the folder, Florida does similar by stating, "....a knife which is normally used for the particular activity..." Unfortunately, again, that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

HOWEVER! In Florida said law only applies to what you're actually carrying on your person; in your vehicle, Castle Doctrine applies.

 

[General Strike]

TBH though if we just restrict the discussion to knife law, UK law isn't much more restrictive than Florida law. And Florida law unfortunately leaves more room for misuse by the authorities.

Whereas UK law specifies a sub 3 inch, non locking folder IS legal, Florida law instead says an "ordinary" pocketknife is legal. But offers absolutely NO definition of "ordinary." And yes I've seen officers selectively arrest vagrants because they had a small lockback or whatever else they could argue wasn't ordinary.

And like the UK which makes an exception to the general restrictions if you can show legitimate reason for other than the folder, Florida does similar by stating, "....a knife which is normally used for the particular activity..." Unfortunately, again, that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

HOWEVER! In Florida said law only applies to what you're actually carrying on your person; in your vehicle, Castle Doctrine applies.

So is it easier to carry a firearm than a knife in Florida?
Sadly I think the authorities get enough wiggle room to be a pain when they want to, in either jurisdiction. The alternative, I suppose, if for police to be powerless to disarm people when they have reasonable grounds to expect ill-intention or danger.

 

[Graham_S]

Lets keep this on topic please,
US gun laws are nothing to do with traditional UK knives and the carrying thereof.

 

[mrcharly]

'traditional large knives'
We have our own traditions. I can think of a few items that fall into that description, a bit different to the USA because we don't have large game for butchering. So, traditional large knives for here:

Sickle (I own one, take it to and from allotment, used it to trim a privet on a public footpath last week)
Billhook (various designs, don't own but I'd like one)


There must be some others, can anyone else think of them? Billhooks have lots of designs for different purposes so are pretty multi-use.

 

[Toddy]

Yes, large 'knives' are best thought of as tools here. Tools appropriate to the situation.
I too have a sickle, and it's an excellent bit of kit (huge plug here for Jojo; he made mine as a copy of a Bronze Age one I was using for Historic Scotland, and it's incredibly useful)
I sold my billhook because my wrists just weren't up to wielding it any longer If I find a lighter weight one though, I'm having it It's a superb tool for hedging, basketry, etc.,
The neatest butcher I've ever seen uses a wee finger sized razor sharp knife to take apart an animal. He reduced a red deer to joints and cuts using that and a hacksaw, in short order. He said that if we needed to bone the roasts though he needed a long thin sharp boning knife too.
He also said that if he hadn't wanted 'chops' he could just have filleted out the meat of the ribs and never minded the hacksaw.
So, you don't need a 'big' knife for butchery; just skill and a really sharp wee knife.

Other wise British traditional large knives are almost all now considered military. Perhaps the dirk that is still part of Scottish traditional dress, just scrapes in as the last of the daggers, but those are frowned on in social situation too these days. Sgian dubh's barely manage to escape opprobium in some circles. Indeed they make plastic bladed ones just for the show of the thing. I think my brothers were about five when my Father made their first sgian dubh's and they were razor sharp, nowadays no one would give a child one of those to wear and use; let alone the stooshie the police might raise if someone complained.

The advent of the belt tool has in many cases removed the need to carry even a pocket knife for many people. The tiny little spyderco keyring knife is excellent I find. Well worth the money

cheers,
M

 

[Stonedog]

Oh, I am in the US....just purely academic in nature!

 

[mrcharly]

Not done much butchery but from recollection (of helping with sheep, cows, bullock and deer), the large knife is mostly used for skinning. A skinny knife for the butchery.

Sickles and billhooks cover a huge variety in sizes and shapes. 4" sickles for some garden and basket work, up to 24" grass cutters. Billhooks the same.

 

[Stonedog]

Interesting, different strokes and all...

I have always used a bit larger blade when it came to butchering....but with a thin flexible blade for boning and a heavier blade for the initial cuts...but then, that was how I was taught...

I guess what I am most curious about is:

You are heading out into the woods for a spot of 2-3 day camping and you carry say a 8-9" leuku or similar on your belt into the forest....will it be problematic?

 

[mrcharly]

Walking in public place with it on your belt - yes. Pack it away in your bag.

Walking through the woods with it on your belt - maybe. It would depend on the woods, where they are, etc.

 

[santaman2000]

.....The neatest butcher I've ever seen uses a wee finger sized razor sharp knife to take apart an animal. He reduced a red deer to joints and cuts using that and a hacksaw, in short order......

I'm sure it can be done. Just as you say. The trouble I had with smaller knives (and that was just from cleaning small game such as squirrels and rabbits) was that they invariably wore out much quicker. It's rare to get a full hunting season out of a small pocket knife if you clean game with it.

Never tried to clean large game with anything les then a 5" blade and TBH I really wouldn't want to.

 

[santaman2000]

.....The advent of the belt tool has in many cases removed the need to carry even a pocket knife for many people. The tiny little spyderco keyring knife is excellent I find. Well worth the money

cheers,
M

A question and a comment here:
-What's a belt tool?
-The problems I have with knives like the "keyring" types are simple; (1) the size of the handle isn't enough for my hands and (2) they are invariably week and prone to breaking.

 

[woof]

A question and a comment here:
-What's a belt tool?
-The problems I have with knives like the "keyring" types are simple; (1) the size of the handle isn't enough for my hands and (2) they are invariably week and prone to breaking.

Probably a leatherman type multi tool.

Rob