TV Licence and iPlayer

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Fadcode

Full Member
Feb 13, 2016
2,857
894
Cornwall
I personally think this is a good sensible debate, and it is obvious that there are people who feel the licence fee is fair, and there are others who think otherwise,
I personally take no notice of polls, they can be biased one way or the other.
I pay my licence fee , but have no say(in regard to the BBC) to what the money is spent on, The Top Gear debacle is a point in question, how much did all that cost?
I dont like all this bakery, and dancing progs, and all these chat shows,
I would like to know how much the BBC make when they sell these programmes to other channels.
In my heyday, we had Dick Emery, Bennie Hill, Alf Garnett, and a host of other good comedians, who were all banned from the BBC for being too crude.
Now name me one of todays so called comedians, who in their act dont swear, why are they not banned.
Now regarding having to have a licence to receive broadcasted signals, well dont phones pick up broadcasted signals, and as yet you dont need a licence for them.
Its also funny that even with a Conservative Government, who despise Government run services, its against their whole epoch to have a service that cannot be privatised, Why because the BBC has no value, yes it could be given away and turned into a commercial venture, but who wants it, nobody.
Unfortunately we are stuck with the licence, its no good making it voluntary contributions, because no one would pay in the end, People dont mind paying £50-£60 a month to Sky, and others, so it would be very hard to convince this or any other Government that the BBC, through the licence fee is not good value.......................and to be honest it is good value, its much better value than the standing charge, on your Gas, Electricity, and water supply, and dont forget, its the BBC who look after the TV Masts that allow us to view the Freeview Channels through our aerials.
 

slowworm

Full Member
May 8, 2008
2,025
976
Devon
Next, lets not demonise Capita (although they dont have a great reputation as a company) and the people that work for them. They are simply asking people to pay their licence fee, and if they have grounds to suspect they are not (which is statistically fairly likely), to check, but only after a series of letters are sent. Calling them 'goons' simply isn't true, and its doesn't help people to get into that mindset. I know its standard on some of the 'TV Licence...your not the boss of me' websites, but it simply creates an attitude thats not helpful.

I'd disagree with much of that. I've had to take them to task on the type of letters they've sent me in the past because they've not been helpful. IIRC one for example simply assumed I required a licence and did not make it easy for me to tell them I did not need one. Whilst I'm more than happy for them to chase people who should have a licence I'm not happy that many people who don't need one are forced to buy one to prevent what is really harassment. I would suggest more people should complain but that takes time which many people don't have spare.
 

Fadcode

Full Member
Feb 13, 2016
2,857
894
Cornwall
Whilst I'm more than happy for them to chase people who should have a licence I'm not happy that many people who don't need one are forced to buy one to prevent what is really harassment. I would suggest more people should complain but that takes time which many people don't have spare.

I don't see why you think people who don't need a licence, are forced to buy one, surely if you genuinely don't need one, how can you be harassed,?, you just throw the letters from Capita in the bin unopened, as you have nothing to fear.
 

dewi

Full Member
May 26, 2015
2,647
12
Cheshire
I don't see why you think people who don't need a licence, are forced to buy one, surely if you genuinely don't need one, how can you be harassed,?, you just throw the letters from Capita in the bin unopened, as you have nothing to fear.

Unfortunately I know from first hand experience that they don't just send letters. They repeatedly call at your door demanding to see whether you're watching TV without a license, and as I detailed earlier, when refused (in this case because my wife was alone with the kids and he had no ID) they will threaten to get the police down and force entry. Whether they are allowed to do that or not is irrelevant. The fact that they issue the threat, and generally harass on the doorstep after being told explicitly that there the television is used for game consoles and DVDs, is the problem.

But ignore the letters and this is what you get...

bbc lettter.jpg

So just to be clear, they're threatening court action and telling you they're about to set a date if you don't respond. Some can happily ignore empty threats like that, but it would worry a lot of people. Especially those who are law abiding in every other respect of their lives.

There is a website where a gent decided not to watch television from 2006... he's had mutliple letters, visits and threats over the past decade, despite him being very clear that he does not watch television.
 
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Wayne

Mod
Mod
Dec 7, 2003
3,755
649
51
West Sussex
www.forestknights.co.uk
I have never had a problem with the licensing folk. I had a couple of letters which I responded to. A visit from a very polite chap asking if I had a tv. I invited him in immediately he said that wasn't necessary as he was satisfied and he should amend records so I wouldn't be bothered again for at least 3 years.

Dealing with officaldom is nearly always about how you react. Be calm polite and assertive when necessary. These folk are doing a crap job for little pay doesn't cost anything to be polite bad usually means a lot less hassle in the long run.
 

mousey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jun 15, 2010
2,210
254
42
NE Scotland
.....
Dealing with officaldom is nearly always about how you react. Be calm polite and assertive when necessary....

Exactly.

It's pretty clear to anyone after talking to me for 5 minutes that I have absolutely know idea what been on the telly for at least the last 10 years. I'm probably due another check up as it's been awhile since I've had a letter or a knock on the door from them. I remember a few years ago going to their website to declare I don't need a licence I think one of the options was something along the lines of "have TV equipment but don't use it for picking up broadcasts".
 

dewi

Full Member
May 26, 2015
2,647
12
Cheshire
I have never had a problem with the licensing folk. I had a couple of letters which I responded to. A visit from a very polite chap asking if I had a tv. I invited him in immediately he said that wasn't necessary as he was satisfied and he should amend records so I wouldn't be bothered again for at least 3 years.

Dealing with officaldom is nearly always about how you react. Be calm polite and assertive when necessary. These folk are doing a crap job for little pay doesn't cost anything to be polite bad usually means a lot less hassle in the long run.

Maybe our area has folk who are doing a crap job for little pay, but don't understand how to be polite themselves.

Its a two way street... my wife is always polite, she is possibly one of the politest people I know, but I heard over a phone line how she was spoken to. The guy was being rude and aggressive... so whilst I appreciate what you're saying, I think the whole process is down to the individuals involved. Both sides should be respectful and polite, but there should not be an automatic assumption that someone is a criminal... innocence should be presumed until proven otherwise.

What is obvious is that there is no consistency from the posts in this thread to the way the TV licensing people behave and the information they are giving. People seem to be having a variety of reactions and information given.
 

Faz

Full Member
Mar 24, 2011
244
7
47
Cheshire
Unfortunately I know from first hand experience that they don't just send letters. They repeatedly call at your door demanding to see whether you're watching TV without a license, and as I detailed earlier, when refused (in this case because my wife was alone with the kids and he had no ID) they will threaten to get the police down and force entry. Whether they are allowed to do that or not is irrelevant. The fact that they issue the threat, and generally harass on the doorstep after being told explicitly that there the television is used for game consoles and DVDs, is the problem.

But ignore the letters and this is what you get...

View attachment 41819

So just to be clear, they're threatening court action and telling you they're about to set a date if you don't respond. Some can happily ignore empty threats like that, but it would worry a lot of people. Especially those who are law abiding in every other respect of their lives.

There is a website where a gent decided not to watch television from 2006... he's had mutliple letters, visits and threats over the past decade, despite him being very clear that he does not watch television.

Write to BBC informing them that you have removed their implied access to your property in person and by letter and that any further visits/mail will be classed as harassment for which you will seek legal advice.

They will stop.

They know they have no right to be there and no proof that you're breaking any rules.
 

Old Bones

Settler
Oct 14, 2009
745
72
East Anglia
I pay my licence fee , but have no say(in regard to the BBC) to what the money is spent on, The Top Gear debacle is a point in question, how much did all that cost?
I dont like all this bakery, and dancing progs, and all these chat shows,
I would like to know how much the BBC make when they sell these programmes to other channels.

To be fair, the only way to gauge what people want is a) the letters etc that people send in to a broadcaster (although thats not always a fair picture), b) research, focus groups and the like, and c) bums on seats. For the commercial companies, C is the biggie. I understand that the BBC used the first two a lot more than the third, and their obvious public broadcasting role means that ratings are not the only measure. We dont get a 'vote' - its not the X Factor, but if nobody watches something and everyone hates it, its probably not coming back.

I get the impression that Clarkeson had been trying to get fired for a while, and they'd kept him on when others would have been let go. I'm no fan of Top Gear, but I admit the three of them have a chemistry which is hard to replicate, but no programme stays the same for ever.

You might not like all those bakery, dancing and chat shows, but a) lots of people do, and b) there are really very few of them. There is Great British Bakeoff, which is now in Series 7 and has been on for six years, and each series is only on for about 10 weeks. True, there have been about 28 specials (mainly Sports Relief/Comic Relief), and for the second year running, 'An Extra Slice', which is 30min long and is shown a day or two later. CBBC also has Junior Bakeoff (which is really good - the kids are not drama queens, unlike some of the adult bakers). But for about 70-80% of the year, there is no Bakeoff.

Same goes for Strictly (although commercial companies have tried to copy the format). Its been on for 12 years, runs for roughly 3 and a half months for each series, and although there are specials at Christmas, Children in Need/Sports Relief, plus of course the daily Strictly, It Takes Two whiles the series is running, again, for most of the year, Strictly is off the air. I'm not sure there are any more chat shows than there has been in the past - Grahame Norton, Jonathan Ross are the only two I can think of, although I suppose you could throw The One Show in as well.

As for how much the BBC makes from selling programmes and formats, etc, you can look at the accounts for BBC Worldwide (in fact the BBC has lots of information available). Obviously there will be commercially sensitive material they dont release, but you can see the general figures. Brianist at UKFree.TV wrote an article 3 years ago asking why they weren't making more money https://ukfree.tv/article/1107052150/Why_does_BBC_Worldwide_not_make_more_profit_for_th - I'd quite like to see what his view is now.

Dick Emery was on the BBC (1963-81), and he only died 2 years after the last of his series was broadcast, so he certainly wasn't banned. Benny Hill got his break with the BBC, but he was hugely successful on ITV (the series was big in the States as well), and Alf Garnett was a character written by Johnny Speight, which was broadcast by the BBC in Till Death Us Do Part and In Sickness and in Health, plus the 1998 chatshow The Thoughts of Chairman Alf for LWT. Again, certainly not banned.

Now regarding having to have a licence to receive broadcasted signals, well dont phones pick up broadcasted signals, and as yet you dont need a licence for them.

No. Mobiles can normally pick up FM signals, which are of course not covered. You can stream Iplayer to a mobile, and depending where you are when you do that, you may or may not need to buy a licence. Frankly, watching TV on a mobile is even less joyfulan experience than watching a film on the screens you get on planes.

its against their whole epoch to have a service that cannot be privatised, Why because the BBC has no value, yes it could be given away and turned into a commercial venture, but who wants it, nobody.

The BBC cannot be sold, because the BBC (under its charter) owns...itself. The government would like to reduce the BBC to a sort of UK PBS, reliant on a tiny stipend and whatever it could raise from people holding bake sales (my favourite US station, KRCW often has ads that tell you how they can benefit from you donating your old car to them). The BBC archive, rights, and buildings could certainly be sold off (and very valuable they would be as well), but the BBC cannot just be handed over to Rupert Murdoch, much as he would like it.

its the BBC who look after the TV Masts that allow us to view the Freeview Channels through our aerials.

They dont. The masts of both the BBC and IBA were sold off decades ago, under the Thatcher government, and are now owned ultimately by a US company, Aqiva. The broadcasters all pay for their signal to be broadcast. However, for the 9% of the population which require Light transmitters (rural, low density populations, or problems with reception because of geography), apart from the PSB's (who have to deliver a basic service, like ITV1, C4, C5, and some of their other channels), the commercial broadcasters dont have to bother, and therefore dont.

The BBC, however, does do its best (where the transmitter allows it) to deliver the full range of BBC services, plus regional stuff like Alba, BBC Wales/S4C, etc.

Dewi - when I said
that people (hardly surprisingly) dont know whether any of them are workable',
I wasn't trying to be pompous - I was just pointing out reality. Until you know the revenues of the BBC, ITV and the other commercial channels (including Sky), plus the costs/downsides of any changes, including a subscription model, its no more than a throwaway thought. Once you do, those ideas really fall apart. I dont expect most people casually know such things. Do you?

As for polling, anyone can grab hold of a poll that suites them, but what I find interesting is just how many headlines about much the public hates the licence fee are not backed up by the actual figures they cite, even when you suspect that the questions were designed to come up with a particular answer. It would be nice for the actual raw data to be linked to (I like data), but this seldom happens. However, we are voting with our feet - nobody has to watch TV, never mind the BBC. And yet we clearly are.

The fact that a programme about baking(!) got almost twice as many viewers as anything else on TV, including ITV's new Victoria drama (and 5m more than X Factor) http://www.barb.co.uk/ shows that the BBC is doing something right. Of course in actually doing stuff thats popular (ratings!), thats bad to some, because they obviously need to be doing deeply worth programmes that nobody watches. If they then made those, the complaint would be why should people pay for stuff that nobody watches - they are damned if they do, damned if they dont.
I think the old Huw Weldon phrase 'the good popular and the popular good' works very well. We all pay, and we all get something back. The BBC has a long article which sets out their case pretty well. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/entries/9637e45d-c96c-36c6-9e3f-af141e81cab4

I have never had a problem with the licensing folk. I had a couple of letters which I responded to. A visit from a very polite chap asking if I had a tv. I invited him in immediately he said that wasn't necessary as he was satisfied and he should amend records so I wouldn't be bothered again for at least 3 years.

Dealing with officaldom is nearly always about how you react. Be calm polite and assertive when necessary. These folk are doing a crap job for little pay doesn't cost anything to be polite bad usually means a lot less hassle in the long run.

Agreed. One of my worries about the various anti-TV licence websites, etc, is that they takes a very strong antagonistic line, and see inspectors as 'goons', etc. It amps people up, and creates an atmosphere of paranoia. Being a TV Licence inspector isn't the most fun job in the world http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...attacked-by-a-householder-than-an-animal.html - they get spat at, hit and threatened. And the reality is that the majority of people they check up on are simply evading paying. And everyone has a bad day sometimes.

We obviously have no idea whats been said (or the tone used) in any exchange with Capita, but one person's polite reminder to pay the fee might be seen as someone else as harassment. And what sounds to one person like a reasonable request to check if someone lacks a TV set (as claimed) could be seen as a threat of illegal entry. The old adage is 'there are three sides to a story. Yours, mine and the truth', and when its comes to dealing with any large organisation (BT, British Gas, Inland Revenue, DSS, NHS, etc), the experience can be variable. But you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and try to ignore the barrack room lawyers on the net.

and replace TVs with computer monitor's if you can afford and it suits. The monitor has a better picture anyway.

If it suits. The biggest you can get in the high street is about 34-35in wide, these day 4k with normally a 21:9 aspect ratio. It will costs you over £500 (over £600 is average). You could pick up a 32in 1080 for about £250. If you are streaming Iplayer or using an app for live TV, you still need to pay for a TV Licence.

On the other hand, you can get the excellent 40in Samsung Full HD K6300 for about £450 at the moment (the cracking H6400 was still available the other day at £379 - a bloke at work got one when we had the last of them in). Or the very decent Samsung K6500 4K set in a 49in, for less than £700. If you want to watch Mo Farah live winning gold in your living room with all the family, which would you chose? And you might still get a year or two of the licence fee from the change between a relatively big monitor and much bigger TV.
 

slowworm

Full Member
May 8, 2008
2,025
976
Devon
I don't see why you think people who don't need a licence, are forced to buy one, surely if you genuinely don't need one, how can you be harassed,?, you just throw the letters from Capita in the bin unopened, as you have nothing to fear.

I'm not one to bury my head in the sand so I open post and sort it out. Sometimes companies make mistakes and it's best to sort them before it causes a problem.

So, when I recently bought a house I opened the post addressed to the new occupant and the TV licencing letter contained what I felt were threats based on statements that turned out to be false. I've also had them lose payment and say I still need a licence and so on. As I've said I tend to sort the issues out but it often takes months and a fair bit of time which is totally unacceptable and I can see why people end up just paying for a licence they don't need.
 
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slowworm

Full Member
May 8, 2008
2,025
976
Devon
Agreed. One of my worries about the various anti-TV licence websites, etc, is that they takes a very strong antagonistic line, and see inspectors as 'goons', etc. It amps people up, and creates an atmosphere of paranoia. Being a TV Licence inspector isn't the most fun job in the world http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/t...an-animal.html - they get spat at, hit and threatened. And the reality is that the majority of people they check up on are simply evading paying. And everyone has a bad day sometimes.

We obviously have no idea whats been said (or the tone used) in any exchange with Capita, but one person's polite reminder to pay the fee might be seen as someone else as harassment. And what sounds to one person like a reasonable request to check if someone lacks a TV set (as claimed) could be seen as a threat of illegal entry. The old adage is 'there are three sides to a story. Yours, mine and the truth', and when its comes to dealing with any large organisation (BT, British Gas, Inland Revenue, DSS, NHS, etc), the experience can be variable. But you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and try to ignore the barrack room lawyers on the net.

I think you're deliberately misleading yourself. Much of the blame for the reaction of people is down to the tone of the letters they send out. My first one to my new address was sent within days of me moving in threatening legal action. Previous letters have not made it clear that there are circumstances where you don't need a licence. If the letters clearly stated the circumstances where you don't need a licence, provided an easy and free way for you to inform them of the fact and also gave a reasonable amount of time before following it up then they would stop much of the problems.
 

TarHeelBrit

Full Member
Mar 13, 2014
687
3
62
Alone now.
At the moment my TV is on and visible from the lane should a Capita guy come looking. However we're watching Quantum Leap on DVD. We have an aerial on the roof but it's not physically connected to the TV. As they have no rights of entry without a warrant and they have insufficient evidence to satisfy a judge to sign off on it. If anyone comes knocking I'll check their ID and say "No thanks, I gave at the office" and close the door. No more contact than that and certainly no answering their questions. If one of the twits tries to caution me prior to filling out a TVL178 I'll ask to see his warrant card.

I certainly don't agree with theft of services or piracy call it what you will and if you avail yourself of the service then you should pay for it. What I disagree with is the BBC, TV-L and Capita assuming guilt until you prove your innocence.
 
Jul 30, 2012
3,570
224
westmidlands
I believe it is incorrect, as if the bbc/channel 4 wish to put things on the internet it is there choice. It is forced selling, they do not own the rights to the internet. The only way to do it is to have an internet licence too if the government is worried about the transmitters to be paid for and the companies to do there "noble and good works"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...on-salary-2-6m-attacks-size-BBC-pay-offs.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...e-25-pay-cuts-in-tax-avoidance-clampdown.html

Such as vigorous investigative reporting of very wealthy people using cash to find ways of avoiding payoing there fair share of tax. Or gravy trains extorting money from people to furnish there own self interests and opinions, such as Europe (staying on the right side of no politics) the meda seem to have been very pro europe, probably why it was such a shock when the vote to leave came. We keep getting these shocks, general election brexit, i think they have lost touch with reality, and this licence fee decision is another symptom.
 

woodstock

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 7, 2007
3,568
68
67
off grid somewhere else
If I choose to use a service then I will pay, but i will not be forced,threatened or coerced into paying a Unlawful tax whatever the company, be it the BBC the DVLA or any of the other tax collectors, if any of you want to pay a muppet tax or penalty Notice then that is entirely your choice.
 

dewi

Full Member
May 26, 2015
2,647
12
Cheshire
*sigh* You've made such an effort to individually reply to people, it would be rude not to return the favour... so lets begin.

To be fair, the only way to gauge what people want is a) the letters etc that people send in to a broadcaster (although thats not always a fair picture), b) research, focus groups and the like, and c) bums on seats. For the commercial companies, C is the biggie. I understand that the BBC used the first two a lot more than the third, and their obvious public broadcasting role means that ratings are not the only measure. We dont get a 'vote' - its not the X Factor, but if nobody watches something and everyone hates it, its probably not coming back.

Well, I see where you're coming from, but you're comparing apples and oranges. The BBC, as discussed, is a public broadcaster and paid for via the license fee (and partially BBC Worldwide after the shareholders get their commercial cut) so is there really a way to measure the BBC? Remove the license fee, then we can measure how popular the BBC is. Once their 'enforced' funding is removed, once you can't go to prison for not paying... then we can do the numbers.

Old Bones said:
I get the impression that Clarkeson had been trying to get fired for a while, and they'd kept him on when others would have been let go. I'm no fan of Top Gear, but I admit the three of them have a chemistry which is hard to replicate, but no programme stays the same for ever.

Clarkson was devastated to have lost his show, and it was his show. The Stig was his invention along with the exec producer Andy Wilman, and he made the show the success that it was... granted, he took his share when he sold the rights to the BBC, and I'm glad he did. Now he is free to take the fearless three off to new pastures. Notice, Clarkson did a video recently of him opening a parcel... it was a 3 minute video and it was more entertaining than the entire new series of Top Gear. The guy, love him or loathe him, has a talent to make people laugh. Unfortunately he has fallen foul to Newspeak on more than one occasion, and granted, he punched an employee/colleague. Was he in the wrong or in the right? We'll never know because Clarkson won't discuss the issue, he point blank refuses to say what happened that night and I get the feeling that he's told Hammond and May to keep their mouths shut as well. There is more to the story than Clarkson wants a steak so he punches someone. Anyway....

Old Bones said:
You might not like all those bakery, dancing and chat shows, but a) lots of people do, and b) there are really very few of them. There is Great British Bakeoff, which is now in Series 7 and has been on for six years, and each series is only on for about 10 weeks. True, there have been about 28 specials (mainly Sports Relief/Comic Relief), and for the second year running, 'An Extra Slice', which is 30min long and is shown a day or two later. CBBC also has Junior Bakeoff (which is really good - the kids are not drama queens, unlike some of the adult bakers). But for about 70-80% of the year, there is no Bakeoff.

Its public broadcasting. It should cover everyone, no matter what the ratings. There needs to be a wider range of programmes covering a wider range of subjects, or the BBC is not fit for purpose. Popularity contests are playground fodder... if you're paid for by the public, use the 'enforced' cash collected to cover everything from rock collecting to deep sea diving, historic stamps to Pokemon cards. Sorry, but its not what sells... its public broadcasting... you can't have your cake and eat it.

Old Bones said:
Same goes for Strictly (although commercial companies have tried to copy the format). Its been on for 12 years, runs for roughly 3 and a half months for each series, and although there are specials at Christmas, Children in Need/Sports Relief, plus of course the daily Strictly, It Takes Two whiles the series is running, again, for most of the year, Strictly is off the air. I'm not sure there are any more chat shows than there has been in the past - Grahame Norton, Jonathan Ross are the only two I can think of, although I suppose you could throw The One Show in as well.

Fine, but it doesn't need prime time. It needs to be relegated to an earlier slot and be replaced with gangta graffiti. We have to have content that represents everyone and rotate it at prime time. Remember, the BBC is a not for profit organisation. Lets have some consistency to the argument.

Old Bones said:
As for how much the BBC makes from selling programmes and formats, etc, you can look at the accounts for BBC Worldwide (in fact the BBC has lots of information available). Obviously there will be commercially sensitive material they dont release, but you can see the general figures. Brianist at UKFree.TV wrote an article 3 years ago asking why they weren't making more money https://ukfree.tv/article/1107052150/Why_does_BBC_Worldwide_not_make_more_profit_for_th - I'd quite like to see what his view is now.

Yes, there is some 'commercially sensitive' information isn't there :D In a not for profit organisation, there is 'commercially sensitive' information... wow!

Old Bones said:
Dick Emery was on the BBC (1963-81), and he only died 2 years after the last of his series was broadcast, so he certainly wasn't banned. Benny Hill got his break with the BBC, but he was hugely successful on ITV (the series was big in the States as well), and Alf Garnett was a character written by Johnny Speight, which was broadcast by the BBC in Till Death Us Do Part and In Sickness and in Health, plus the 1998 chatshow The Thoughts of Chairman Alf for LWT. Again, certainly not banned.

I'm sure everyone knows Alf Garnett is a character, nobody actually thinks Warren Mitchell has a doppleganger. As for the others, there is no denying their material is no longer shown on mainstream TV. There are plenty of repeats of old shows, many many shows are repeated year in year out, but there are exceptions. And those, generally, are guilty of breaking NewSpeak. As the point I made earlier... that is why comedy isn't funny any more on the BBC.

Old Bones said:
No. Mobiles can normally pick up FM signals, which are of course not covered. You can stream Iplayer to a mobile, and depending where you are when you do that, you may or may not need to buy a licence. Frankly, watching TV on a mobile is even less joyfulan experience than watching a film on the screens you get on planes.

For such an informed fellow Old Bones, did it not cross you mind that the reference to broadcast signals were about BBC radio? You know, the ones on FM signals? You know you can listen to the radio on your phone don't you?

Old Bones said:
The BBC cannot be sold, because the BBC (under its charter) owns...itself. The government would like to reduce the BBC to a sort of UK PBS, reliant on a tiny stipend and whatever it could raise from people holding bake sales (my favourite US station, KRCW often has ads that tell you how they can benefit from you donating your old car to them). The BBC archive, rights, and buildings could certainly be sold off (and very valuable they would be as well), but the BBC cannot just be handed over to Rupert Murdoch, much as he would like it.

Erm, the charter is based on the premise of public funding. Remove the public funding, the BBC needs to change the charter, adapt, live in the real world. Sorry, but the BBC may not be able to be sold directly, but its funding can be removed and it can left to the free market to decide whether it survives. An experiment I would very much like to see run because I don't think the BBC would last a year without the threat of prison to pay for it.

Old Bones said:
They dont. The masts of both the BBC and IBA were sold off decades ago, under the Thatcher government, and are now owned ultimately by a US company, Aqiva. The broadcasters all pay for their signal to be broadcast. However, for the 9% of the population which require Light transmitters (rural, low density populations, or problems with reception because of geography), apart from the PSB's (who have to deliver a basic service, like ITV1, C4, C5, and some of their other channels), the commercial broadcasters dont have to bother, and therefore dont.

Got to love facts and I won't argue on this one... although I could be pedantic, but I won't.

Old Bones said:
The BBC, however, does do its best (where the transmitter allows it) to deliver the full range of BBC services, plus regional stuff like Alba, BBC Wales/S4C, etc.

But here I will :D Just how do the BBC do their best in comparison to other broadcasters to ensure their full range of services are available to all? I know numerous locations where the BBC is not available to the license paying public, but I suspect they are among the 11 million households that don't pay the license fee.

Old Bones said:
Dewi - when I said I wasn't trying to be pompous - I was just pointing out reality. Until you know the revenues of the BBC, ITV and the other commercial channels (including Sky), plus the costs/downsides of any changes, including a subscription model, its no more than a throwaway thought. Once you do, those ideas really fall apart. I dont expect most people casually know such things. Do you?

The pompous part comes from you presuming that your audience, ie the people here on BCUK, are ill-informed on the subject. Always presume the audience knows pretty much what you're talking about and try not to insult them (unless you're doing it for the purposes of humour) as it tends to alienate those who are informed. Those who are not informed will not be shy to ask or challenge what you're saying.

Old Bones said:
As for polling, anyone can grab hold of a poll that suites them, but what I find interesting is just how many headlines about much the public hates the licence fee are not backed up by the actual figures they cite, even when you suspect that the questions were designed to come up with a particular answer. It would be nice for the actual raw data to be linked to (I like data), but this seldom happens. However, we are voting with our feet - nobody has to watch TV, never mind the BBC. And yet we clearly are.

Unless we have a national referendum on the issue, we'll get no accurate data. Look at the sample numbers for polls and instantly you'll discard all polls, whether they suit your narrative or not. Remember, the polling agencies knew how we'd vote in an EU referendum, and how the last GE would go :rolleyes:

Old Bones said:
The fact that a programme about baking(!) got almost twice as many viewers as anything else on TV, including ITV's new Victoria drama (and 5m more than X Factor) http://www.barb.co.uk/ shows that the BBC is doing something right. Of course in actually doing stuff thats popular (ratings!), thats bad to some, because they obviously need to be doing deeply worth programmes that nobody watches. If they then made those, the complaint would be why should people pay for stuff that nobody watches - they are damned if they do, damned if they dont.
I think the old Huw Weldon phrase 'the good popular and the popular good' works very well. We all pay, and we all get something back. The BBC has a long article which sets out their case pretty well. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/entries/9637e45d-c96c-36c6-9e3f-af141e81cab4

Viewing figures for a static camera on the front of a barge going down a canal for 3 hours??? Links, schminks! Lets return to the fact that the BBC is a public broadcaster. Paid for by the public and there to serve the public. Not to chase ratings. I know you don't like that simple fact, but it is a simple fact. And I'd argue with you all day about the statement 'We all pay, and we all get something back'... I'm sorry, but you haven't proved that and you can not prove it. Because the BBC doesn't give back to everyone, it gives back to those it panders to with its bias. Those outside said bias can just pay and suck it.

Old Bones said:
Agreed. One of my worries about the various anti-TV licence websites, etc, is that they takes a very strong antagonistic line, and see inspectors as 'goons', etc. It amps people up, and creates an atmosphere of paranoia. Being a TV Licence inspector isn't the most fun job in the world http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...attacked-by-a-householder-than-an-animal.html - they get spat at, hit and threatened. And the reality is that the majority of people they check up on are simply evading paying. And everyone has a bad day sometimes.

Yes, of course. Its paranoia. It isn't the case that the BBC and its 3rd party collectors are causing people to get the hairs up on the back of their neck. They just politely ask for the money and leave at that don't they? Have you any idea how some of these 'thugs' act and how they speak to people? I can give you a dozen YouTube videos to show what these poor helpless inspectors do when they think they're not on camera. And the reality is the majority of people they check up on are simply evading paying? Erm, citation needed there bub! Give me some link or data that proves that categorically otherwise I call bullsh!t.

Old Bones said:
We obviously have no idea whats been said (or the tone used) in any exchange with Capita, but one person's polite reminder to pay the fee might be seen as someone else as harassment. And what sounds to one person like a reasonable request to check if someone lacks a TV set (as claimed) could be seen as a threat of illegal entry. The old adage is 'there are three sides to a story. Yours, mine and the truth', and when its comes to dealing with any large organisation (BT, British Gas, Inland Revenue, DSS, NHS, etc), the experience can be variable. But you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and try to ignore the barrack room lawyers on the net.

Hold on, so now you've no idea whats been said? I thought these people had been abused by proven non-payers... evaders... those dirty scum bags! There is evidence, some of which has been shown in this thread, that the reminders or demands are no polite, but you've chosen to ignore them because it doesn't suit your narrative. There may be 3 sides to a story, but when its backed up with printed and video evidence, its hard to deny. And with BT, British Gas etc, there is a choice. Inland Revenue, DSS and NHS... erm, how do you compare those directly to commercial companies again? And vinegar, honey... if someone comes to your front door and openly threatens you, what do you do... give them a sandwich? If they verbally abused your wife who was at home looking after your 2 babies... how'd you think you'd feel about these poor innocent collectors?

Old Bones said:
If it suits. The biggest you can get in the high street is about 34-35in wide, these day 4k with normally a 21:9 aspect ratio. It will costs you over £500 (over £600 is average). You could pick up a 32in 1080 for about £250. If you are streaming Iplayer or using an app for live TV, you still need to pay for a TV Licence.

Imagine the telly you could afford if you were not having £145 a year stolen from you by the BBC :D

Old Bones said:
On the other hand, you can get the excellent 40in Samsung Full HD K6300 for about £450 at the moment (the cracking H6400 was still available the other day at £379 - a bloke at work got one when we had the last of them in). Or the very decent Samsung K6500 4K set in a 49in, for less than £700. If you want to watch Mo Farah live winning gold in your living room with all the family, which would you chose? And you might still get a year or two of the licence fee from the change between a relatively big monitor and much bigger TV.

Wow, you mean if I scrimp and save, I can give my hard earned to a huge corporation that isn't accountable at all to me? You mean if I give up just £145, I too can watch an athlete in my living room, if I just give away money to a wasteful quango that tries to teach my kids rubbish through its skewed view of children's television? Blimey... where do I sign up?


So there we go. Rather than being rude and ignoring your post, replying to it in part or taking it out of context, I've replied to every part in as much detail as I'm willing. I need a drink.
 

dewi

Full Member
May 26, 2015
2,647
12
Cheshire
Just a reminder to play nicely or I will close this thread. It's pretty much run its course now I think.

We're playing nicely. Its a spirited debate... if anyone is offended by anything I've said, they should speak up and I will gladly apologise. I don't intend to offend, just to debate in a (hopefully) interesting way.
 

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